Question for those of you living in a country where marijuana is legal. What are the positive sides, what are the negatives?
If you could go back in time, would you vote for legalising again? Does it affect the country’s illegal drug business , more/less?
Legalization has only positives
People who need something, to get through the day, will always seek for some kind of crutch.
When the legal range of available products (sorry, just learned, that the word “Sortiment” doesn’t have a nice English equivalent) aren’t helping ones issue, they’ll look for other sources.
But unregulated sources can bring multiple problems with it.First off, and the thing, I care about most:
we’d/we do hurt people looking for some kind of help.
Either by directly reducing their sources of crutches to untrustable and dangerous ones, with a product that’s very probably not clean and could damage the user in unintended ways, they aren’t aware about. We need to provide a safety net for people with problems, and not stigmatize those who try to help themselves.
And I’ve never met an addict, that was just an addict for the sake of it, or the feeling of the first time was so great - ok, maybe once I did.
But in every other case, the only ones getting hooked are the ones, that finally felt good with themselves for once in their life, when they somehow introduced some drug into their system.
And that’s why many of them say, it was that feeling of the first time, they always try to reproduce.
For a normal happy person, heroin wouldn’t make much of a difference.
But if you’re feeling unloved and alone, hurt and abused, when you’re feeling lost and don’t know what to do, than end yourself.
Well then, then heroin (or whatever helps your cause) will give you a new perspective of life.
This escape from overwhelming, oppressive, suffocation problems is it, why people get hooked on drugs.There is just nothing wrong with recreational use, as long as it’s just about boosting a good time or even better, use mind altering drugs in a ritual setting, to change your perspective on things and learn (again) that love and your lives ones are the center of your life - or discover, that there was always one thing, that you wanted to do. Doesn’t matter, if it gives you more options and happiness in life, it wasn’t bad.
Bad it is for the people who cling to it, because only on it, they feel like functioning normal.Those people have actual drug problems, and even with crystal meth the statistics say, that only a few percent (we’re talking 1-2%) get addicted.
(At least that’s, what I saw and remember - proof me wrong) And we have to keep in mind what social stigma fucking crystal meth has!
The group of people doing it (and show up on those statistics) are mostly people, that are already looking for such experiences and have stepped over the border of social tolerance, but look for their own thing (either enjoyment or escape/help)
And there is pretty much no one, who ever just started with meth (or other hard drugs, like heroin) . In the most cases there was at least alcohol and probably cigarettes/nicotine involved - there are absolutely always exceptions, but that doesn’t change much, what needs to change in our social system.
As tragic, as those exceptions are, those usually happen in groups, where people with problematic drug use already gather.
So, solving the problem of the mass, should also help to reduce those sad exceptions.Ok, I’ve started a bigger second point, but the only thing left I have are those few words, trying to start describing an idea:
“Then we need to look into the individual”Well,… I hope the first point is sufficient, and if I ever remember what I wanted to say else, I’ll come back here ;-)
So kids, you see, don’t abuse drugs, else you won’t remember shit… - although my mother has the same problem, and never in her live did anything illicit.
So I can’t say with confidence, that we can talk about causation.But, what hurt my mind most, were social traumata (e.g. a Burnout), and drugs (and many exercises like meditation) exceptionally helped my mental state and ability to handle life and work despite my handicap.
As I said, as long as I work actively work a problem and use drugs in a ritual state, they are helping me.
As soon as I need them just to get through the day, then I’m having a problem, I’m trying to avoid.I know, this is mostly about me, but talking with other users, I’ve mostly seen the same mindset.
with crystal meth the statistics say, that only a few percent (we’re talking 1-2%) get addicted.
Couldn’t find the numbers on meth specifically but I’m highly skeptical.
I’d argue that any form of self medication is inherently unhealthy, and free access to legal substances doesn’t fix that. Some people are able to navigate it responsibly but it’s not possible for most people.
The human brain is a complex soup of chemicals and electrical impulses, altering it with a substance won’t result in an objective self assessment of the effects.
Taking your example, plenty of normal and reasonably happy people get addicted to opiods. The first experiences are on such a different scale to regular chemical pleasure your brain generates that it alters your perception of normal feelings.
If you ask someone to compare that high to normal life before or after, they’ll tell you they never experienced “true” happiness before.
There are real, observable, permanent changes to brain structure from drug use. I don’t think that type of change should be taken lightly with personal experimentation. It should have the same scrutiny and medical guardrails that we give other permanent body choices.
For anyone interested, some reading on heroin’s impact on the brain
Trying a substance before 13 is so much out of the way drugs are used in a regulated way, that I’m not sure if this data is relevant here.
Only the dark market doesn’t care about your age…
I second your message in many ways. First off, I am not a user… well, count alcohol in, on special occasions like a birthday, but even a thought of drinking two glasses of wine more frequently than once in a month or two reminds me I am not going to feel well. Anyway, main reason is I know full well that if I am not able to deal with my life as is, no substance is going to help, and as for discovering how fun life can be - there are other methods, far less destructive
Now about how substances are used by other people: drink/smoke to make it through painful day(s) - I get how it works, but in the end again, not a solution. Same goes for situations where drugs are prescribed as painkillers - I can trust that physical pain can be that acute and exhausting
And actual regular drug usage - now this is a sure sign something in life of that person has gone completely off-track, and giving them more suffering (social stigma and criminal charges) won’t help. We need to look at individual, we need a different kind of society where no one gets so desperate as to use chemicals in order to have some break from the suffering that their life has become, and we sure as hell don’t need this batshit insane “you are going to jail for even buying some small amount of weed” idiocy
Pro:
- people aren’t criminalised for kinda nothing.
- you detach it from other drugs (the regular dealer will also have other stuff for sale - not an issue if you buy officially or grow yourself).
Con:
- despite what people claim, there are people that get highly addicted to cannabis. Probably similar to alcohol, you’d say? Well, in my unpopular opinion, alcohol also shouldn’t be available the way it currently is (make it insanely expensive please).
- most people consume it with tobacco, so there’s that to deal with.
Alcohol is way more addictive than cannabis
Alcohol just isn’t hard to make. It’s also really easy to sneak into places. You could never make it insanely expensive. It would just all go black market.
As if Finland and Norway wouldn’t exist. 😉
We already tried making it illegal. Plus we don’t have the health infrastructure for it. We have a shotload of people self-medicating a variety of disorders with alcohol. And lots of people brewing beer just for fun. I don’t know what they do in Finland and Norway but it wouldn’t work here.
Not saying the model works in every country, but we see more and more moving against tobacco and alcohol in the EU, which is a good development.
I guess you’re from the US? I think we can agree alcohol isn’t the biggest drug issue you have.
Ah yes let’s bankrupt my alcoholic mum. What a great idea
Making it expensive only bankrupts addicts and makes more things privileges for the rich.
Worked in Norway and Finland.
Places with much stronger social safety nets and much more accessible healthcare.
Compared to…?
Looking across Europe, I think they’re comparable. No reason to not go for a similar model here.
Poonited States
Agree with the pros, not really with the cons to the extreme that you describe.
Kurz gesagt did a pretty good episode, balancing the pros & cons
Oh hey look the propaganda machine I used to watch.
I’ve seen people so addicted to it that they stopped to go to work and completely ignored their family. I don’t have numbers to put it into perspective, but the sheer level of addiction was beyond what I thought was realistic.
Alcohol addiction is way worse than that
That’s whereaboutism and not contributing to the discussion. I’m sure addiction to meth is worse as well.
You said it might be similar to alcohol
You are right, sorry.
You are not a trained psychologist and are unable to detect underlying conditions like depression or anxiety
Hey, I noticed it in another comment of yours so I thought I’d say something-
“Stopped to go to work” in English implies that they stopped smoking weed so that they could go to work. You’re looking for “stopped going to work”
Appreciated!
People can get addicted to anything.
If the addiction isn’t a chemical dependence, and isn’t inherently extremely harmful, then I think it should be accessible and addiction support should be available.Cannabis is legal here, and the level of addiction you’re describing is both very uncommon, and typically just exacerbating issues caused by other drugs or mental illness.
The important factor isn’t whether someone can be addicted (otherwise you’re banning nearly everything), it’s the harm that addiction causes. As a general rule of thumb physical dependencies like alcohol are more harmful than habitual addictions, but that obviously isn’t the whole story.
Caffeine addiction is the same category as alcohol and tobacco but causes so little harm that I don’t think anyone is seriously opposed it. On the other end of that scale is something like meth or other hard drugs, generally understood as destructive and has few serious supporters encouraging use. Breaking these addictions is almost always hard and physically taxing, in some cases can even be lethal.
Marijuana addiction is in the same category as most things that make you feel good or form habits so it’s harder to nail down a proper scale, but the lower end is probably something like video games; a debilitating addiction is possible but uncommon and most people would oppose a blanket ban on the basis of “can be addictive”. Gambling is on the other end can definitely ruin lives. I’d say that’s a little worse than coffee. Breaking these addictions is more like breaking a bad habit, it can feel hard for the addict but generally isn’t going to kill them.
True to an extent, but looking at it from an individual’s perspective, it can be devastating. I’ve seen people stop to function as human beings because of this.
What I am genuinely concerned about is the scale. So far, we don’t have too much insights into the long term effects of this, both on individual and on society level. Cannabis addiction can cause long term psychological issues, and it will be years before we will truly understand what this means for us.
Con: I am stoned all the time
Pro: I am stoned all the time
I’m in this comment!
Why only Cannabis?
I get you, but we also have to start somewhere.
I just wanna note that we’re basically blind when it comes to the health impacts, positive or negative, of cannabis right now. This will change in the coming years, but for now it’s impossible to tell what the cons are.
What? Cannabis is widely consumed for a thousand years
Yeah but for how many of those thousand years had people studying and counting how often people suffered this disease or that syndrome when they consumed or didn’t consume cannabis?
All of them. It’s been part of the pharmacopea since forever.
https://philarchive.org/archive/SUMCIT-2
Beside if there’s any niche side effects I’ll be easier to know with legally allowed medical supervision. Under prohibition the main side effect is jail
not sure I agree with you. we’ve had generation after generation after generation of people smoking/using cannabis. Whatever ramifications using cannabis has would have shown up by now.
Were scientific studies conducted on cannabis users before legalization? Because if not then it’s gonna be hard to notice anything but the most obvious stuff.
Yes? What the hell are you talking about
Okay apparently I didn’t know what I was talking about. There’s a whole Wikipedia article about it. That said it seems there are/were legal restrictions that have limited research on the effects of long-term use.
That’s what the wikipedia article might say but there are definitely studies on the long term effects of cannabis use: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fi&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=long+term+effects+of+cannabis
I’m not sure, you’ll have to look into that and let me know as I’d be interested to know about that myself.
The issue is I had was with the use of the word “blind”. As if cannabis was a new and unknown substance. While I’ve no doubt we’ve a lot more to learn about cannabis to say we’re “blind” is disingenuous at best.
Okay fair enough. Also apparently there’s a whole Wikipedia article on the topic so we already know a lot about this stuff, though long-term effects are more tenuous due to legal restrictions.
Exactly, so “blind” really isn’t the best descriptor of our understanding on cannabis, by the looks of it we’re quite informed.
Yeah true enough. Lemme edit that.
Pro
But Bill Maher is a walking testament to why it matters a great deal how often you come back to the surface.
OP, please change the title to make it less vague what the question is about without having to open it.
Done, thanks 🙂
Decriminalisation is the way IMO.
I don’t want lots of people taking up smoking even. But being punished for smoking weed? Ridiculous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)
It’s not completely safe. Regulation makes sense. Especially for protecting developing brains from long-term negative damage.
If you look at it as an illegal drug, it’s obvious that it doesn’t work to criminalize. It seems much more appropriate and effective to legalize, regulate, and have information and support programmes in place.
In Germany, it was legalized, but only in a very limited form, to get it through the coalition government. I think the current form is too bureaucratic, too restrictive. The most important thing is that it legalized holding personal consumption belongings.
There are very few cons, all the negative effects of cannabis can be better handled when it’s legal.
Pros:
- funny green plant
- I like it
- I’m high and forgot the 3rd
Cons:
- N/A
Legalize it
weed smokers are not cool anymore, like wow bro you’re going to go home and follow the law. Lame
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It’s been legal in Canada since 2015ish. Haven’t noticed a difference, but now I can get better regulated gummies which is nice for my asthma.
There are some minor downsides, you can’t walk 5 minutes in downtown Toronto without smelling weed. I can tolerate it just fine, but some people hate it. Otherwise it has been great.
As an ex addict to (too many) substances (not marijuana) I can easily see a few cons regarding drug usage but the real pro, if I had to pick one, would be to remove all that money from drug dealers.
I would rather my money went to drug dealers than to capitalists exploiting addiction. I reckon we only finally got legalization because of government corruption and kickbacks. The idea of fucking Fantino (you probably don’t know him, non-Ontario people) making bank after a career of using his power as a police chief to fan social stigmas and demonize users in the press all those decades is more than I can stand.
I would rather my money went to drug dealers than to capitalists exploiting addiction.
Those are the same thing, just with different amounts of revenue.
So we agree one is preferable to the other