Working from home reduces emission much faster than electric cars.
True
People going on about how much electric cars suck are usually shocked when I agree with them… And moreso when I point out that they suck because they’re still cars, and that’s not a conversation the anti-EV crowd is ready to have.
Also, goes into the old “Reduce, Reuse, Recycle” mantra which it seems nobody understands is ordered that way intentionally as that’s the order they should be implemented. Reducing usage is by far the most effective tactic for positive environmental impact or environmental harm reduction.
They just get to “recycle” and see that they can change pretty much nothing more than putting trash in a different bin and figure that’s all they need to do. Even though it’s a really poor overall impact.
Working from home is also considerably safer. The most dangerous part of most people’s work day is their drive to and from work. If that time had to be covered by workplace injury insurance, management would be begging for as many people as possible to stay home just to keep insurance costs down.
agree
Yeah it really doesn’t help when everyone is driving worn out, pissed off, and/or fearing of retribution from being late due to things out of their control, like traffic, accidents, and sudden construction.
I have terrible time-blindness, so I’d frequently be one of those stressed out trying to make my commute. More often than not, I’d make it to the clock within 5 minutes or less!
There was a few times I felt pushed to make a risky turn where you’re allowed to go but yield to oncoming traffic (who were also speeding to not get yelled at or fired, surely!)…, so I could clock in on time…then I thought…
“I refuse to die on my way to work. That would be so pathetically stupid.”
Thankfully I quit when they wanted to get on people for being literally sixty seconds late.
Their answer is always “Just leave earlier?” If they had it their way you’d just be wasting hours of your life unpaid in the parking lot just for them. As if they’re remotely worth it.
How many deaths are caused by a ridiculous obsession with punitive punctuality, which is hampered by forced office commute traffic, which encourages panicked angry driving?
I too, miss “covid traffic.” Roads actually made sense then…
I always turned up 30 mins early to avoid all of this shit. I know people dont want to be at work this early but fuck it, give yourself some leeway. Bosses had the option years back to have flexible hours and spread out that traffic. The 9-5 is bullshit and ancient.
Why does anyone care what time you turn up at the office? People have different sleep preferences and family commtiments. Just schedule any all-hands meetings for a mutually agreeable time and let people live their lives.
I trust my people to spend their time wisely and to self direct if we’re not online at the same time. Shit gets done. Why would I fuck up someone’s sleep in, or put them under unnecessary pressure when they’re trying to prep their kids for school, just to have our clock-ins line up on a spreadsheet I’m never going to look at?
Its easier to communicate with other pepole if you work at the same time. And if your work is mostly based on comunicating with other buisnes clients you need to have at least somewhat fixed shedule
I hate how the left hand panes look Ron DeSantis, and cutting carbon emissions isn’t something that asswhipe would discuss since he and his predecessor, Senator Rick Scott, like to pretend climate change isn’t real and it’s “wokie/DEI/SJW/Socialist/Communist/Chinese/etc. bullshit”. However he would definitely get mad at work from home, regardless of how much it betters the state of Florida, gotta keep those slaves in the fields where can see them, right?
Well, having the office was nice because I like my colleagues. I’m lucky in that regard though, and as nice as it was to socialise at work, working from home is nicer. Not to mention much much cheaper by every metric. In conclusion fuck ever going back to the office, thank you for coming to my TEDx Talk.
I personally like it too, but not daily. I average 1-2 days in office now and it’s healthy for me. See my coworkers, they know my name, we catch up, have our meetings, then I go home for a few days again. I’ve just learned everyone is different, and the company definitely shouldn’t be telling people how to work, people are grownups and can decide themselves. (And if they can’t, then fire them instead of punishing everyone).
However for this meme, another great way to get people off the roads would be… trains
Some people don’t have the space at home to set up a working area and really want to just go to an office that their employer pays for, and that’s fine.
This, and I do a lot of gaming on my pc, have a nice setup etc, usually not great trying to work there (don’t have space for another desk and can’t really justify having two sets of monitors, keyboard etc
Why do you need all that? I have my work laptop sitting at the back of my desk. Most monitors have two inputs. I’ve got an older 1080 with HMDI+DVI and a newer 1440p with DP/2xHDMI.
So I have the laptop in HDMI on both screens (it needed a USBC to HDMI cable for one of the outputs), and a simple USB3 switch for the mouse+keyboard.
So when I’m working I fire up the laptop, switch the USB over to that and swap the screens to the HDMI inputs. When I’m done working I can fire up the desktop, swap inputs and USB and in seconds I’m switched over.
I’ve been doing it this way for years and years now.
That’s normally what I do, the problem is the context for me, I sometimes prefer just sitting across the room with a laptop so I’m in a slightly different environment
It can help draw a line I’d agree, but I’ve gotten used to it now I think. I used to have it worse. I operated out of the bedroom for the first few years I was remote and that wasn’t good at all. The new house had a bedroom that was really too small to be a bedroom. So it became an office room.
This is why coworking spaces exist.
I don’t know in other countries but it is working quite well in France, you can get a subscription to the closest working space and have a desk, meeting rooms … To work remotely.
I like that it gives a separation between home and work but without long commute.
I like trains.
I like freight trains, but I wouldn’t want to live anywhere that commuter trains would make sense.
Small towns built around a train station are absolutely lovely though
I suspect those are mostly outposts. Rail junctions. Water stops for the old steam trains. Remote mining towns. Places that either provided services to railway operation, or primarily needed freight service rather than passenger.
And I agree: I would love to live in a small railroad town. But I would move out long before that town had enough people to justify commuter rail service.
Why in the world not? I specifically moved to be close to mine, I hate driving for my commute
Passenger trains can only operate efficiently in areas of extremely high population density. If I’m living somewhere serviced by trains, then everywhere I go, I’ll be in a crowd.
I’m enough of an introvert that this sounds like an extraordinarily uncomfortable proposition. I’d need an exorbitant financial benefit to even consider it, and that’s not going to happen. Instead, I’m expected to pay a very high premium for the “privilege” of being miserable everywhere I go.
No thanks, I’ll stay out here in the sticks.
You’re absolutely spot on, and it’s evidenced by house prices here in the UK where they’re next to or near a rail line.
They are noisy fuggers and people do not like living by them.
The resistance to allowing WFH really shows how bullshit the push for EVs “to help the environment” is.
I’m not anti-EV and do believe they are better than ICE. But even better than an EV-driven mile is a mile that isn’t driven at all.
It’s not bullshit at all. It is a lot better for cars that are being used to not shoot out smoke from combusting refined oil. There will always be cars in use, so it will always be better for them to not shoot out smoke.
It’s not possible for all workers to live inside dense cities and use public transport and work in offices or at home. MANY other jobs are out there and still need doing every day. Everyone who physically maintains all of our critical infrastructure, manufacturing, and food supply industries is pretty much going to commute to work one way or another. Millions of those people don’t live in cities with public transport and/or don’t work where public transport can take them to. EVs are an improvement for all of those necessary use cases, because the vehicles they need could not be shooting out smoke.
I’m not sure what percentage of workers could do their job from home if they were allowed to. It’s probably a small minority, though a quick glance of numbers from COVID would suggest 15-20%. I’ll use 15% for sake of argument but would welcome a more “confident” number if someone has it.
Reducing the number of miles is and important way to reduce impact. Additionally, even those who cannot work from home benefit from reduces congestion and reduces vehicle idling. Although idling has less impact on EVs (though they still have to run HVAC), ICE vehicles are still the majority of vehicles being sold today in most nations and will be in circulation for decades.
Not everyone can WFH, but it needs to be part of the strategy of reducing emissions from transportation. Not pushing WFH (for those who can) is leaving a lot on the table. This is not a replacement for EVs, rather in addition to.
I’m all for WFH and EVs personally. Haven’t bought an EV yet but I would like to have a non-spyware-laden one for a reasonable price.
The spyware part. Agh!!
A big motivator for keeping my early-2000’s car with almost 215,000 miles on it is just how CREEPY modern cars are.
Mozilla’s “Privacy Not Included” column really highlighted this. It’s terrible and it’s currently all legal and you can never really trust you’ve circumvented it.
Sucks too, because those “Canoo lifestyle vehicles” or the new VW bus EV look so cool…but they have crap like face-monitoring cameras and app-connectivity in them. What the heck.
I’m not sure how you equate that first paragraph at all. Can you expound? The second one just nullifies the first lol.
My point is that if they were serious about protecting the environment, they would promote WFH (for those who can…not everyone can obviously) in addition to EVs. Instead, there seems to be a big push for return to office.
Got it. Thanks. It definitely read like you were saying EVs were some secret not as good as you thought it was issue…
When they’re pretty damn fantastic at lowering pollution over time.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016823009055
Yeah, I think he was explaining that EVs ARE more efficient, but like everything with industrial capitalism, the idea is that they’re solving for:
“How can we increase efficiency, while keeping inefficient traffic jams and pointless office commutes?”
When, if they actually cared for the environment, reducing office commutes in the first place has proven to work wonders in dropping pollution. There’s just no psychopathic control and exponential corporate real estate profits involved.
An EV is more efficient than an ICE, but industry wants never-ending constantly-exponentially-growing production and purchasing of EVs, so they can enjoy a future of EV-majority traffic jams, instead of gas and diesel traffic jams.
We’ll then get emotional-piano commercials about how they saved the planet by mass producing a product that was mass consumed.
But we could simply not have traffic jams, and everybody knows it. That would make people too happy though, and give them time to think. Like 2020, it would once again be difficult to find people who will put up with corporate nonsense.
Solving problems by putting dents in demand also has a way of making quarterly projections inconvenient. :p
While true I think most people understand that most of our modern economies that sustain billionaire corpos and the stock market are almost purely run by the magic that unstainable growth based gdp. This will always be the case until we work properly on fusion and a Dyson swarm.
We will reach a point when we hit 11 billion people and growth levels off. People will revolt en masse when they realize they can’t retire without the magic rich made richer money generation machine that is the stock markets compounding interest. Turns out you’ll have to save for a retirement by not magically generating more money from just hoarding it.
Until then, keep putting in your 401k and understand that any large change to an American economy to fix commute problems is going to cost way more than Europe due to our land size and heavily suburbian population centers.
Everyone is down for mass transit until they realize they have to pay for it lol.
those first 3 months or so of covid were bliss. every office drone was off the road. it was so fucking easy to get everywhere, and it was quick too
It was mostly quicker on my pushbike too. I wasnt having to keep swerving and braking for idiots. Though I did get chased 3 times, by special kinds of idiots (one in a dinosaur suit ffs).
If unions and OSHA really had teeth, they’d point out the significant health risks of having workers commute to work versus work from home. In terms of lives saved, work from home is much safer and we should fine companies accordingly when they force workers to commute when instead they could simply work from home. They should also be fined for environmental impact as well :)
2802 - 7006 lives saved every year if wfh was allowed partially or all the way.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/remote-work-literally-saves-lives-peter-watridge
I save $7 per day working from home while I can listen to death metal.
Them: I need you in the office so I can keep you under my finger!
Me: Bro do you know how much in rent and power you’re gonna save keeping them at home?
the only expenses businesses ever complain about are wages. they don’t seem to care how much is wasted elsewhere if they could save a few dollars cutting some shift workers allowance
Boss: you are not allowed to with from home
Same boss: I’ll be working from work, I need to service my car
Honestly I think we’re going to hit a wall where we realize we need about half as many “office drones” as we have in a couple years.
So many people with office jobs drive in, sit at a desk, and do maybe 2 hours of actual work in the entire day. Or they work from home and do the same. And then they collect their 95k/year salary.
I really dunno if people are prepared for businesses to start going “wait, what are all of these people doing?” And axing their workforce and replacing most of them with AI or existing other employees
or you could let everyone work half as many hours for the same pay, but sure why should anyone except business owners get to benefit 🙄
That would be hard to balance around all the people who actually do work 8-12 hours a day
The thing you’re not accounting for is that work that primarily involves thought, which is what “office drones” are doing, aren’t productive in the same way that physical or service jobs are.
Looking off into space thinking is part of the work. People average about four hours of productive work in an eight hour day.The thing you can’t do is get rid of half the people and then expect the other half to magically be eight hours productive per day. Businesses keep trying and weirdly it just tanks their output.
AI is not the panacea that so many people think it is. Do you feel happy when you need help with something you bought and you get an AI trying to offer you helpful articles or tips? I don’t. Do you want the same level of service from the entity that controls where your paycheck gets deposited or fixed your HSA contributions?
If you definition of work is butts in chairs typing, office workers don’t do too much work. But that’s a very naive definition of what most office workers are actually doing.
The thing you’re not accounting for is that work that primarily involves thought, which is what “office drones” are doing
Found the office drone.
Our office drones are not “thinking” for half the day like you, and input and manipulate data. You could also include half these “managers” too who sit in an office sending emails all day, and never hit the shop floor.
If it is so easy to be an office drone, why weren’t you able to get a job like that?
Is it maybe because it involves skills you aren’t aware of?
I once worked in an office doing what I described above.
I absolutely hated it stuck in a cubicle, and now work outside with lots of other people grafting, instead of listening to gossiping over the cubicles all day long. Think I lasted 2 months.
Experimental solution proposal:
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Fire all management. They’re expensive and exponentially less productive. Their stupid large offices and pricey desks also waste space.
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(Office) workers collectively do the thing they do without being micro managed and stuffed into pointless meetings.
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???
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Probably profit, actually. But then how would the “in-club” kids reap all the rewards without working? :( :( :(
I have direct experience with the management that only work days since I work continental hours, so get to see how we run during the night without them.
Like I said, half is probably a number we could run with at my place. Sorry state of affairs.
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Given that office drone would cover any job that isn’t service, manufacturing or laborer, it’s not exactly surprising that you’d find one. I’m a software developer.
It’s almost always best to assume that other people’s jobs actually take some form of skill, because they always do. People get paid for a reason. Otherwise you fall into the trap of calling huge swaths of work “unskilled labor” and thinking they don’t deserve much pay, just because they’re just moving stuff around on the shop floor.
What do you think those emails the managers are sending are, if not work?
A software developer!? On Lemmy!? Say it ain’t so
The old; how do you know someone is a software developer? Yup, they tell ya!
I think I really touched a nerve with that guy though, and it seems like they want to be an office drone instead of working from home (this is the bit where the “senior software devs + team manager” argue they need to collaborate, in person) with a nice life balance.
You don’t understand though, because it’s not physical (software of any kind) and even if it is (any hardware) because you aren’t constantly doing something it’s not work!!
As an admin who got push back from the sales team, everyone has… Unique perspectives on what is and isn’t work.
I know exactly what those emails are because I have to deal with them asking me if a wagon that I’m looking at has arrived yet.
So I email them back telling them that it’s arrived (they knew that already because goods-in already updated the checking in sheet) and they get to validate their job somehow by asking me, shit.
It’s quite amazing how they keep their jobs.
So you can dismiss someone’s job because you, a person whose job it is to look at wagons, got an email you didn’t see the point of?
If they have the sheet, why do they need you to work there and look at the wagon at all?
Now, I know your job definitely has more to it than looking at wagons and confirming their existence.
My point is that the person who sent the email does too. It’s rare for a job to actually have no point and no work associated with it.Well, maybe your workplace wouldn’t put up with these people but I can confirm that besides them not being able to use SAP to check the quantity of a BOM, to like I said - they have access to the other functions / data but prefer to delegate them to others.
So it ends up going down a hierarchy until someone else does what these managers could do themselves in the first instance.
And they spend all their time forwarding these queries to people lower down the hierarchy and that’s all they do, eh?
You should probably get a new job if your company has that much dead weight and no direction.
Me thinks thou dost protest too much
Incredibly well said. I’m saving this.
None of my coworkers drive to the office and we actually like seeing each other… Hybrid remote work is great for us
I think 90% of the problem is people being forced to drive everywhere
Traffic would be so much better with a staggered work force. We might actually enjoy the commute.
Because of traffic, the workforce started staggering by themselves here if possible. The result was that bad traffic was spread out over the entire day instead of just two peaks in the morning and evening. Good traffic is only at night and working at night defeats the purpose of having business hours.
Basically just further proof that car traffic doesn’t scale well. It’s just an incredibly space inefficient way to get around.
Or if they actually cared, they could build trains.
Another factor is the spaces that offices take up or the power used whilst unoccupied, these space could be used for housing or maybe even industry.
Its great that no one drives to your work but this is more uncommon than common.
In conclusion: work from home is better.
Don’t forget giant slammed parking lots! :D
I’d be fine with going into the office if public transportation could get me there, but it’s a 15 minute drive vs 1.5 hours on the bus. And when I go into the office I just put in headphones with a YouTube documentary and don’t talk to anyone. What’s the point?
Unnecessary RTO should be outlawed
The worst part of it is most big companies are forcing RTO to either justify the leases they don’t want to pay to break, or to satisfy tax incentives agreements they made with municipalities.
In both cases, they’re deciding it’s better if you pay - in time, gas, car maintenance, mental health, productivity, and stress - for their business decisions that went bad instead of paying money out of their own bloated pockets.
I don’t have the kind of job that can be done remotely, but I’m all for remote work where it’s possible and desired. My best friend hated working from home at the height of covid because he’s an extrovert who can’t really afford to go out much. Now he works from home Mondays and Fridays and I think it’s kinda the best of both worlds for him. I think that employers that already have office space for workers that could effectively do their job from home should give workers a choice. Maybe hybrid workers have required scheduled days in the office just to make sure they’re there to attend necessary meetings or collaborations or whatever rather than it just be them coming in when they feel like it, but the technology has caught up to allow way more flexibility than ever before. If I had a 100% desk job, I would move somewhere cheaper and never come in. I know I’m not alone there, and I think there’s no reason to hold that option hostage. Covid proved that it could be done for most white collar work, and we can’t let them try to squeeze that Pandora back into its box.
If my company forces me into the office then my commute shall be counted towards the company’s “carbon footprint”, not mine
