I don’t think people on this sub use it, but it’s great news for us. The worse it gets the likelier people move on.
This is just Netflix all over again. If you don’t want to pay for Nitro, watch ads. If you don’t like ads, find the door. I don’t get why people normalize freeloading online services and get pissy when they have to pay for what they use. Servers cost money. Pitch in with ads, data, or a subscription.
Otherwise go do your open-source self hosted and P2P programs, they all have the same problem. Reliability.
I’ve already paid with my data.
Want me to pay for a service (something I’m happy to do)? No ads and no selling of my data.
What data? Who bought it? Do you have a single fact to back that up?
Ads are the least of your worries on Discord
the desktop versions of AdGuard can filter requests from the desktop version of discord
There’s also services like adguard DNS and nextDNS that can help cut down on any bullshit like that.
Adblocking needs to be multi-layered just like antivirus protection
Discord has a monopoly on the organized group chat platform, there isn’t a competent competitor, or at least none I’m aware of
Matrix.org (Try Element)
Revolt.chat
I must say that Matrix is so competent that it can compete against whatsapp and Discord at the same time
I don’t know why so many people in the fediverse consider Element a competitor to Discord. I regularly use Element, but the non-text functionality just isn’t ready to point people at as an alternative. They will have a bad time and write off Element potentially forever if they are shown that app as an alternative right now.
Some examples of functionality that is important to discord but is not a good experience or is not ready in element yet: voice/video channels, screen sharing, custom emotes and reactions, channel organization and browsing (their latest attempt just doesn’t do it for me).
Additionally, there are times when encryption just has a hiccup still or someone sets it up wrong and things can be messy because of it.
I really like element and they’ve done a good job so far, but It’s just not ready for people to be pushed there from discord.
Goddamn I wish it wasn’t so hard to convince friends that discord sucks. I’d rather just send SMS than use discord to communicate with my social circle.
SMS? You mean the paid, vendor lock-in, MITMable traffic? Possibly one of the only options that is actually worse than Discord
I don’t always force my friends to use Discord alternatives, but when I do I force them to use Signal.
Took fucking years but i dragged them to signal kicking and screaming, people are such little bitches
If you don’t use Discord for voice much, Matrix has a pretty solid bridges you can use.
Hosting your own Matrix server is suprisingly way easier than I though - got a VM on hertzner for like 5$ a month, and there is an Ansible script that takes care of the setup for you. It’s also one of those rare cases where someone made an Ansible script that actually works, instead of you getting stuck in dependency-hell (seriously, fuck npm. Not a single docker or ansible tool that has used it ever worked for me out of the box. Python can get simillarly annoying).
They have a pretty easy to follow guide, and the whole setup took me like 20 minutes. I only edited a few options in config.yml (mostly to add Messenger and Discord bridge), and ran the ansible, and it worked at first try.
So I could at least ditch both messenger and discord apps from my PC and phone, without having to convince anyone to quit their poison - with only issue being that you can’t use Discord voice. And that the messenger bridge is still unreliable sometimes, but those are still minor inconviniences in comparison to my deep-seated hate for Meta.
Of course - Meta still gets my chat data and content, same as Discord. But at least they don’t get anything else from my phone or PC.
Matrix bridges are nice until you realize that you have to be a mod in the server to add the bridge, you need to do it not only for every Discord server you want to use on matrix, but every channel as well. It’s a huge chore. And ofc it doesn’t work with Discord DMs.
Not blaming Matrix or the matrix bridge developers here because it’s not their fault. But let’s be honest: matrix bridges are a pain to set up for Discord and for a majority of people aren’t worth the hassle. Moving to Matrix would be the better choice if at all possible
you need to do it not only for every Discord server you want to use on matrix, but every channel as well. It’s a huge chore. And ofc it doesn’t work with Discord DMs.
This wasn’t my experience at all - all I had to do was message the Matrix bot with servers I want to join (I’m not a mod on any of them), and it bridged all channels in that server. Also, Discord DMs are working fine.
I’m using the mautrix bridge, which doesn’t use a bot or anything like that, but uses your Discord session instead.
revolt.chat is pretty good. It’s open source as well. The interface is exactly the same as Discord. And best of all, you don’t need nitro to have a gif background or profile picture. Markdown is also supported in the profile description so you can have very fancy descs.
I didn’t get past the sign in page because I was having too much fun looking at all of the localization options for their website.
The default is “🇺🇸 English (Simplified)”, but they have “☠️Pirate”, “Toki Pona”, “🥹Bottom”, “😸OwO”, “🪄 Enchantment Table”, and many other funny options.
Last I checked it didn’t have voice chat and just ran in a imbedded webpage
revolt
Are there public servers / communities?
Yes. As I said, it’s basically Discord.
I’ll keep an eye on this. I use discord exclusively for gaming purposes, and voice chat is pretty important for that bc I’m still on console mostly for the next year or so (building a pc finally, thanks to a new job). So if they can get that going, I could convince several people to switch once I’m also on PC. Till then discord for my PS5 is about the best I can hope for.
I only use it to play games with 4 other people regularly and another 2-3 people sporadically. When it becomes a pain to use, well move on just like we did with AOL Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, Team Speak, and however many others we’ve used in the past. Something else will come along. It works great for now, but we aren’t loyal to it. We’re loyal to playing online with each other. I would honestly pay $5 a month for a decent program, should no free one be available, but I’m already cutting out multiple streaming services, satellite radio, and all sorts of other shit because commercials are too annoying.
Will using the browser version with the usual array of ad-blocks help?
Resisting? It was a clear strategy: use VC money to give away something for free then charge/monetize to give back those investors all the money, with interests
People aren’t going to move on. Some of you really live in a bubble when it comes to this stuff. Users complained about ads on Facebook, reddit, Twitter, YouTube and everything else and no matter how many times you guys declare those services dead the reality is that they are still the default for most. Even in the unlikely scenario that a large amount of users do permanently leave, they won’t migrate to the privacy respecting service you want them to.
Some are and some aren’t. Like a lot of folks on here are here because reddit went to shit.
A minority are, yes. reddit is still massive and continuing to grow while Lemmy participation has fallen off noticeably and continues to decline.
while Lemmy participation has fallen off noticeably and continues to decline.
Fediverse Observer says otherwise: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats
Active users have been steady since the Reddit migration, posts and comments per day each dipped but bounced back and currently growing.
I don’t think you’re reading those stats correctly. MAUs clearly peaked months agp and have begun to trend down as people, move back to reddit. Why? Because, just like will be the case for Discord, communities haven’t moved.
Stats aside, I can’t help but laugh anytime people suggest Lemmy is dying off or failing. Aussie.zone didn’t used to exist, and Lemmy.ml used to have like… one post a day? And it would be some tankie nonsense like “I’m a Russian living in Ukraine - Russia isn’t going to invade Ukraine, it’s all Western propaganda”
I’m quite obviously comparing it to the height of the reddit migration, since that is the topic of the thread. MAUs peaked months ago and are trending down now.
MAUs peaked months ago and are trending down now.
Completely false claim if you look at the source in my previous comment. And no, I’m not looking at it wrong. MAU have been going up every month this year.
If you disagree with my assessment, then actually explain how it’s wrong. Don’t just claim I’m wrong without elaborating.
Completely false claim if you look at the source in my previous comment.
No…?
Are you only looking at the last 6 months or something? Zoom out to take into account the entire migration from reddit (since that is the topic of this thread). The MAUs peaked last year and the overall trend since has been downward since. Whether they are slightly up over a few recent months is not actually relevant to anything I said, nor does it disprove the claiim that Lemmy is dying.
You ate trying to cherypick statistics here to push a narrative that anyone can clearly see is false if they just compare the height of Lemmy during the migration when it was the supposed “reddit killer” vs what it is today. It is objective fact that it has declined and your own data proves it. The overall trend is downward. You are essentially the equivalent of a climate change denier, pretending there is no temperature increase by zooming right in on the most recent data instead of looking at the bigger and more relevant picture.
Are you only looking at the last 6 months or something? Zoom out to take into account the entire migration from reddit (since that is the topic of this thread). The MAUs peaked last year and the overall trend since has been downward since.
Yes, I’m only looking at the last 6 months, because everyone already knew that the Reddit migration was a freak event. There was going to be a big influx of users followed by many of the new users leaving as things stabilize. Because of that, you have to filter out the Reddit migration and following 2-3 months to get a proper view on the trend of Lemmy’s userbase numbers. And from that data it’s slowly trending upwards, which is a good position to be in.
Whether they are slightly up over a few recent months is not actually relevant to anything I said, nor does it disprove the claiim that Lemmy is dying.
It is objective fact that it has declined and your own data proves it. The overall trend is downward.
By the logic you’re running off of, I can look at Lemmy’s entire history and conclude that it’s trending upwards because the MAU started out at 0 and it’s currently around 113k. You have to put an appropriate range on data or you end up with nonsense conclusions.
You ate trying to cherypick statistics here to push a narrative that anyone can clearly see is false if they just compare the height of Lemmy during the migration when it was the supposed “reddit killer” vs what it is today. It is objective fact that it has declined and your own data proves it. The overall trend is downward.
If you actually look at the numbers in my source, the peak MAU after the Reddit migration was 115k, while it’s grown back to 113k as of last month. That’s less than a 2% difference, with consistent growth over the past 6 months. Not only that, comments have gone up a lot in comparison to MAU, meaning that those users are also growing more active. These are the objectively factual statistics that you’re harping on about, and they point to Lemmy being a in good spot growth-wise.
You are essentially the equivalent of a climate change denier, pretending there is no temperature increase by zooming right in on the most recent data instead of looking at the bigger and more relevant picture.
And here is the unprovoked ad-hominem attack. Dude, you’re the one who tossed out a false claim with no data to back it up, and took it personally when someone asked you to back up your claims with a source and a decent argument.
But sonce you’ve already brought out the mud-slinging, I’ll bring my own: you’re behaving like the gamers that claim a single-player game is dead and therefore bad simply because the active playerbase has dropped after two months. Grow up.
Nothing ever changes and it is pointless to try- got it
Welcome to lemmy
Joined 2 months ago
Good. Maybe people will finally move on to something else.
Time to move to Matrix then, and I’m not even joking. Ads are Aids.
Yeah god forbid anyone pay for the shit they use, just keep hopping around to suck the life out of every ‘free’ service there is. Nitro is right there.
Nitro is right there… and yet… these changes happened.
Because of people… like you… who provide nothing to a free service besides costing bandwidth… leeches to a free internet… vampires to charity…
If it wasn’t a privacy nightmare maybe I will consider paying, but data theft + ads? Naaaah.
Ah right, so it’s fine if it’s a privacy nightmare but combined with ads, woah there. If you’re right, they already have your data. If you don’t use it, why even complain?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen discord get a positive mention on this sub. I’ve never used it so I don’t really have a horse in this race.
I don’t know what people use it for, but I’ve seen all the negative memes about open source software devs using it and that causing people to skip on the software though. Never seen it get any praise around here.
I haven’t scraped the terms of service to see exactly what kind of data they collect but I’m not extremely worried about it. I don’t put sensitive information into it beyond my payment information for Nitro. I’m sure everyone here on Lemmy, a self-host and open source site/software, is against programs like Discord because they’re proprietary but I personally just enjoy it and don’t find it very limiting.
- Your IP address will be logged as soon as you login.
- They store everything you send in plain text on an encrypted storage unit.
- They store if your microphone and/or camera is on or off + more of what settings you have made in your own device.
- They force you to give them your phone number in order to identify you.
Source: https://discord.com/privacy
Discord is a privacy nightmare, but not as much as for an example Spotify. Spotify even logs how you hold your device and how fast you move it! Source: https://www.spotify.com/uk/legal/privacy-policy/
- Everything everywhere I connect to has my IP, oh no.
- It’s not plaintext if it’s encrypted…
- So like cookies but for an application, not that intrusive imo.
- “You may be required to verify your account with a phone number” - I provided a phone number once and they’ve never, at any point, sent me anything or asked me to use it. You could easily use a burner phone.
Even thinking about a company like Google seems like more of a privacy nightmare. This is relatively tame compared to most everything else.
Because I’m free to complain about things I don’t like.
Many of my friends use Discord but I also use Matrix and I prefer that. This is a Signal/WhatsApp like situation.
If Discord starts shoving them ads maybe I can bring some people over to a more secure platform easily.
Yeah, sure, complain about it if you want to, it just doesn’t make sense if you’ve already given them the data. I like Signal for privacy but it doesn’t have any customization, no personalization, no personality, it’s nearly sterile. It does it’s job and that’s it. Great for people who want privacy for like… work but for just talking to friends Discord seems more enjoyable.
Why not Mumble and IRC or XMPP?
Which of them support e2e in group chats by default?
XMPP with OMEMO.
Looks like Discord will do a Reddit in the near future.
I recommend switching to Matrix.
I’m constantly looking for something that could replace discord for me, I need something like the discord screen/gama streaming to consider changing apps.
I need something like the discord screen/gama streaming to consider changing apps.
I second this. It’s one of our most used features. Whether it’s streaming for team mates or for spectators there’s almost always 1 to 2 people streaming/watching.
Same. Matrix works like a charm.
Don’t get me wrong, I love matrix, but works like a charm is not how I would describe that. Element Just seems to make everything harder because you have to keep track of your session keys. That way if you have a new device and can’t use the previous device you don’t get locked out And then to top it off you have the export and import of end to end encrypted room keys which even for somebody like myself who is technical enough to manage it has managed to screw it up almost every time. I find something like session or SimpleX easier because you’re not having to manage keys like that. SimpleX has an actual database file export instead of key management and you need only remember the decryption key. Session of course uses session IDs with a neumonic seed phrase like crypto
Interesting concept! Element isnt my favorite client either but it has nothing to do with running or using matrix. Its like using an iphone and saying calling someone is very expensive.
The keys situation needs work though.
I havent found another client that really improves the situation though.
I use fluffychat daily and it works well. The issue atm is that frequently changing devices, leaving and joining a lot of rooms can disrupt the experience. If you talk mostly on the same devices and in the same rooms there is no issue as far as I can tell.
As all FOSS software it needs work and people who want to put in that work. I wont help with element and synapse since the element folks want contributors to sign away their rights which I‘m not okay with.
Oh, I don’t blame you for that. I just feel like Matrix in general is rather complicated for normal people. I like simple x a lot because all the keys are just in a database and the database is encrypted instead of having to remember the keys and session obviously only needs the mnemonic seed for restoration. Like, I can manage a cryptocurrency wallet absolutely fine, but there are a number of different times that I have lost access to encrypted chats on Matrix due to not getting the key situation right.
Yeah, a lot of apps have interesting functions. Since matrix already has a lot of users and is somewhat integrated with the other services I‘ll stay with it.
You can just restore with your recovery key
If the server holds your room keys encrypted by your restore key, sure. But thats still a 3rd party holding your keys.
Not if you run your own instance 😁
Why can’t I click and drag rooms into the position I want them?
Ended up switching to alphabetical and numbering the rooms.
I will gladly leave this shithole called discord, as soon as matrix start to support screen sharing
I actually havent tried if screensharing works but jitsi seems to work very well in there. Even the german government uses it so I suppose it might be able to do that.
I frequently use Jitsi w/screensharing. Been using it for quite a while this way with good results.
I know for a fact you can screen share in jitsi as I have seen it done.
In that case it should be no problem in matrix, assuming it uses a full version of jitsi.
There’s a huge difference between streaming games and streaming PowerPoint slideshows
Obviously, yes. Whats your point?
Telling Discord users to switch to Matrix because “it works like a charm” is incorrect, considering how Discord is used.
“It’s tolerable if you can put up with the low bit rate and high latency” is more accurate.
the problem isn’t switching, the problem is making all the other people using It to switch too, not everyone cares about security or ads
There’s also privacy issues with Matrix:
- Account deletion on Discord: username becomes [deleted]
- Account deletion on Matrix: will not delete username
- GDPR-compliant account deletion on Matrix: will not delete username
Discord is also one (admittedly very lousy company), while Matrix starts with the privacy issues and just gets worse
Go, change it! It’s open source.
Shit takes time bro. We’re all trying not to starve to death here.
Right after you promise to convince all their moneyed interests to accept those changes into the repositories they manage
i dont use it and im curious, what interests? i tought is was FOSS?
FOSS does not mean there are no business interests. Think about Mozilla Firefox, Postgres, RedHat, etc.
sure but they are usually more tamed. what is matrix doing exactly?
Yep most of the communities I like are on Discord nothing I can’t do.
most of the communities period are on discord
even the one that really have no business being in there and really should be on a forum
One of the interesting features about Matrix is that it supports some degree of interoperability. The Beeper phone app, for all the fuss about its ill-fated attempts to bridge to iMessage, can connect to Discord for basic no-frills text chat.
I refuse to install Discord on my phone but use Beeper for DMs and group texting.
I have happily succeeded. While there are some communities that are still on Discord, the vast majority of my friends are accessible on Matrix.
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience. It has basically nothing of value over Discord other than being open source. Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix. Stuff that no normal user is going to put up with.
If Discord does end up completely eviscerating itself the replacement will just be some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack it will not be the rise of Open Source because open source developers have no concept of user experience.
I mean we don’t even need to start talking about how bad all the client options are and how half the features don’t work and all that. You can look no further than the login system. Average users do not like want or accept having multiple options for logging in. There’s a reason that irc, teamspeak, mumble despite in many ways being objectively Superior especially in the case of the voice chats ended up relegated to only nerds like us. Because no one else is willing to deal with keeping track of servers to connect with or how to cross join or add users.
Same reason that Lemmy is like 90% technical users that are already invested in something like Linux. The average user got frustrated by how fragmented everything is how many duplicate channels and content you would find between instances and how difficult it was to search instances in the first place. I am here because I can ultimately work around those emoians, but the average person? Is not willing to and they shouldn’t have to
I don’t want the average person here. That makes companies more incentivize to come here and fuck everything up. All those normies can stay using Discord or Slack. Matrix is easy and its a good protocol.
I’d love to be able to disagree in any of your points, but I can’t.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable. Reading docs, remembering anything other than the bare minimum, running into issues that don’t get magically resolved within 5 minutes will turn them away forever.
Even people with a technical background will at least partially compromise and migrate towards the services with the most users to not isolate themselfs.
Matrix is neat, Lemmy is neat, Nextcloud is neat (well, in theory), Immich is neat, so many other privacy friendly solutions are neat. But they’ll always be irrelevant in the global context.
I mean with next cloud and immich it doesn’t really matter if they are popular. Those are services that you host for yourself for you to use generally by yourself.
Immich I could see someone using if they’re already familiar with Google photos, so long as someone else handled the setup and maintenance of it of course
Selfhosted services like Nextcloud/Immich aren’t nearly as dependent on a critical user mass like Discord/Matrix, but the principle is the same.
If you host for family or friends, they may even use it if you convince them to switch. But when the setup, which doesn’t consist of redundant instances and isn’t maintained by a small army of SysAdmins 24/7, inevitably breaks for longer than a few minutes, most will switch back to the easy, reliable option.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable.
That’s exactly what matrix most popular client Element does.
It is often sketchy. The search function doesn’t work properly. Loading older messages often makes your client spaz out. There’s several glitchy commands. Spamming snowflakes can slow down your client to a crawl. A friend once crashed Element on my phone using a lot of nested quotes with muscle emojis. We had to spam other stuff so I could open Element again because the moment those messages started loading my client crashed again, preventing me from even changing the channel so I could open my app again.
I use Element and Matrix because it is the best privacy-respecting option, but it has a long way to go.
I am a big fan of Matrix and glad to see it getting some attention in this post. But it is definitely a bit rougher around the edges and esoteric compared to Discord. For more technically-inclined people, it’s fine. But it’s a bit much for some people.
I’m no fan of Apple (and don’t want to divert discussion here), but part of their winning formula is ease of use.
deleted by creator
That is why XMPP is still superior, both for hosting and usage.
2^32 different incompatible extensions for receiving images and an inability to receive messages when offline. Glorious.
Have you used this protocol at all? You CAN receive messages when offline, this is not IRC. And media uploads don’t seem to be such a problem.
Yes, I have. With various clients. It sucked.
some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack
Guilded already exists. It’s a Discord clone with more features, but no one uses it. I assume they are just waiting for Discord to fail one day.
It’s because is owned by Roblox.
I didn’t look into it much other than trying it out for 15 min. Good to know lol.
Someone else mentioned Revolt.chat higher in the thread and it seems to be a promising FOSS replacement for Discord. It’s looking to fix some of Matrix’s issues like not having voice channels (voice calls on Matrix aren’t the same)
Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix
The thread is about discord adding ads in their platform, so much of user experience… there’s no such trash on matrix
You don’t need to be a technical user to use matrix you simply don’t have to be closed minded
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience.
Heck agree. In my experience, IRC is a much better alternative.
With how much they been cash grabbing, I’m not surprised.
If only I could convince 30 people I barely know to switch platforms.
The Discord server I spend the most time on is constantly looking for alternatives in case something better pops up or we need a backup.
Matrix is rough, but it can be the future. Revolt seemed more complete for the time being.
They already have
Pre IPO allocations were available two years ago.
Looking at all those companies that moved their support to Discord.
But I thought we cold have free support in realtime with security updates for free forever?
It would’ve been very smart of them to have this ad change only affect business ownedchannels, and then open up a fee option for businesses to no longer have ads on their channel
