- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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The AI slop is why I quit Duolingo after my 1500+ day streak.
Is there an alternative? I just started using it but the experience is incredibly grating, especially the way they gate your progress behind “lives” that stop you learning unless you can pay.
Yarr, thar be an alternative. Though some might’n be thinking acquiring such booty be illegal.
It’s okay. We can all play that game. I’ve replaced my use of Duolingo with AI.
Pro tip: have as your “system prompt” in your LLM of choice “at the end of every query, include me a short Swedish relates to my prompt”. No need for Duolingo.
At least AI can give you actual grammar lessons
if the labor cost goes down, the service should become cheaper.
if it worked like that, i’d love to have AI replace humans.
AI isn’t the problem. capitalism is.
Duolingo is a tragedy. They really quickly realized that you don’t make money teaching things - you make it on retention and gamification.
Mango languages is great if your library has a subscription. I believe the US’s foreign service materials are also really good, if you want effective but boring.
I was so upset last year when they got rid of the comment section. There were often helpful explanations for WHY you conjugate the word that way, or how native speakers might use a different word.
I don’t know how good this feature was on Duolingo, but there’s a site/app called HiNative that does a really good job at this sort of thing.
that looks cool. Thank you for pointing it out!
Yeah, the comment section was amazing…and then they came out with “max”, where you get “explain my answer” for a premium, powered by a [notoriously fallible] LLM. This is the definition of enshitification.
Literally canceled because of that change. Fuck them.
This “AI first” thing was the last straw for me, but ever since I noticed that the comment section was gone there’s been a bad taste in my mouth. I wonder how many of us there are.
One of the languages I am learning is an endangered native language, and it was super helpful to see knowledgeable people in the comments.
i encountered some people that spoke some MAYAN. would like to learn it, because thier pictographs are interesting.
That’s cool as heck.
That’s honestly enraging!? Such data can be greatly valuable for learners, and the native speakers’ community, and linguistics.
It was an amazing resource. For them just to nuke it completely was very frustrating.
Yeah but fuck learning, there’s money to be made, amirite?
I’m pretty frustrated they removed dark mode as well, made it very hard to do a lesson before bed.
Duolingo? Mine still has dark mode. Maybe just for subscriptions?
Don’t worry, you can upgrade to Duolingo Max for even more money and have the AI explain it. (Seriously.)
Yeah, I saw that. I have the family plan (some people in the house go through a lot of hearts (mistakes)) and still have to see ads for Max.
Never used it but that sounds like such a neat concept.
Does anyone know of any free language learning apps that have a comment section? (And a user base that utilizes the comment section, of course.)
Tell me more about Mango library subscriptions? How would one determine?
Your local library may have a Mango subscription plan for card holders. You might be able to find it on their website but a librarian would definitely know.
It’s not gamification that’s the issue. That aspect really held my attention and gave me consistency.
It’s the push to a pay-to-win model that made me quit. They made the challenges harder and harder to complete without using boosts, and to use the boosts you had to use gems. And gems were really hard to get unless you bought them with real money. It doesn’t matter if you have a super subscription (or whatever it’s called), you still had to pay to get the gems.
And the prices for the gems were just as predatory and the disgusting mobile gaming industry. Never should there be an option to spend over $20 for in-game consumables, nevermind over $100. It’s sick.
Duolingo was shit for learning, for me at least.
So i left rather quickly, then came back hoping i could pick up some more Italian and noticed they summomed another paid tier. I wonder how many tiers they can summon up until they stop existing.
The gameification part was good, it made it easier to keep up the habbit, though I recently got locked out for no apparent reason so apparently they just outright want to fail? Any good free alternatives? (I wasn’t using the paid version)
Any good free alternatives?
You won’t like the idea but…
spoiler
pirating a textbook from Libgen/Anna’s Archive
What language(s)? Lots of good free resources.
Here’s a website with those FSI courses I referenced earlier, as well as Peace Corps training materials. This is going to be the boring route. Drill drill drill, but you get good at it.
As a general strategy - on the Omniglot forums a billion years ago there was a method called Listen-Read which I think does wonders for me. You pick a longer book, preferably one you have enjoyed and read already in English. You get a copy of that book in English and your target language, as well as audiobook (let’s go with say, French), then you listen to the audio book in French while reading the book in English, then switch to listening to an English audiobook while reading the French book, then the audiobook in French while reading the French.
Librivox and Project Gutenberg are godsends. I did Candide this way, and part of Les Miserables. This is obviously less immediate fun/dopamine satisfying than Duolingo is, but will teach you to read better than Duolingo will. It’s not great at expressive language - while I can read Proust, my « je voudrais un Diet Coke » was not well received in Paris.
If you have a language in mind I can probably point you in some other directions.
Duolingo uninstalled
uninstalls Duolingo
leaves 1-star app review
Let’s also replace the customers by AI, that way the whole system will really be “AI first” and self-sufficient.
Afraid to find out what an AI Karen would be like.
it’s a matter of time (or more likely has already happen) where an AI company ends up having only AI users, it makes money be selling adds to show to the users, which are all AI bots, and then selling those bots as user data.
then said company celebrates that it has no humans involved making a shit ton of profit.
So Twitter?
Duolingo has enshittified so much over the last few years.
Even if I had the ability to become a millionaire tech founder, I don’t think I’d want to because every “I want to make learning new languages free and easy for everyone” becomes a “I have to drive 3% more ad revenue this quarter by charting my users’ every bowel movement”.
I suspect the reality of being a rich tech bro is watching your adult self slowly consume your own childhood dreams, aspirations, and soul.
I canceled Super and uninstalled when they started telling me to get Max. My friends canceled and uninstalled today because of this news.
We might be a small minority but I do giggle at the thought that Duolingo is gonna have to build AI customers soon because nobody will want to use it.
I’ve been using the free version almost exclusively for over a decade. It continually gets shittier all of the time.
The latest thing is you can’t even practice the language to earn more hearts to continue your lesson, you have to now watch ads. I think it’s rather emblematic of their approach overall… it’s not about learning it’s about more eyeballs for ads, unless you fork over a recurring payment for increasingly mediocre lessons.
Yeah. I’m on a two year streak. Pretty close to letting it go and moving to something else. The free version is getting completely garbage.
Enshittification is not driven by the founders (mostly, fuck Zuckerberg). It’s driven by greedy investors who want their billion dollar unicorn payout and who who will risk a hundred company failures to get it.
A lot of tech companies that manage to resist outside investors are doing just fine.
Well it makes sense if you think about it.
You invest a million dollar in 100 companies, 95 fail, 4 makes 10 million each. If the last one hits at least 60 million you are even, anything above is pure profit. Basically just throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks.
That doesn’t “make sense” at all, it’s insane. If we end the billionaire class and distribute wealth more evenly productivity and efficiency would go waaaay up because the people managing money will actually care about it instead of setting it on fire.
It’s ultimately driven by the lack of constraints in their market segment. Tech companies will screw over investors as well if they can get away with it.
But I was more talking about how the founder of Duolingo professed specific, world-bettering goals when he started the company that – if held sincerely – would make him ashamed of himself because most of what the company does isn’t in the service of them.
The tech world is rife with founders that ultimately met that exact same fate.
Holding on to your goals is hard when you owe loan sharks half a billion dollars and they want their payday
Extreme wealth incubates and breeds narcissism.
Fuck their greed, I know that the bulk of their users wouldn’t caffè if the CEO started shooting puppies on Main Square, but they can train their AI on Deez
If you looking to replace dualingo, check with your local library, they may offer free access to different language learning apps. I was able to get Rosetta Stone for free using my library. And they also have access to Muzzy and Transparent language.
I have found Duolingo much, much less useful for language learning than Language Transfer. The latter actually helps you learn to think in another language rather than memorize things (which is still useful, but not nearly as much).
Short if total immersion, I have found nothing better than LT.
Thanks, I will check it out:)
From the first look: is this just audio or also written practices?
Just audio. But it is presented in a way that helps you to learn, rather than just remember. If you give it a try, I promise that you will be shocked at how you can retain the knowledge.
It isn’t enough on its own, however. You need to reinforce the lessons by speaking to people, reading, and/or TV and movies.
The problem I have with finding an alternative is that most just offer some five to ten largest languages. Want to learn Spanish, French, Russian, or Chinese? There are hundreds of both free and paid services available. Want to learn Hungarian, Irish, or Finnish? It’s Duolingo and a scant handful of sites specific to that language.
Holy crap that website needs some serious work, on mobile at least
Dreaming Spanish, if you are trying to learn Spanish. I seriously think it is the future of language learning, bar none.
Thanks! I’ll have to check this out
R.I.P Doulingo.
Oh no! How will I pretend to learn a language now? Woe is me.
I get the hate for Duolingo, but you can actually learn with it
Duolingo got me enough vocabulary in Spanish to put the simplest sentences together, and then follow more robust lessons. I still think it was a good starting point, but I won’t use it anymore on principle.
Right? My partner has used it for years and is now able to read simple to medium books and watch some movies in the learned language.
It’s just a tool like anything else. You can’t put the genie back in the lamp. Some jobs go away and new jobs are created. Look at every industrial revolution we’ve had in the past. AI technology is not to the point of replacing mankind.
Yeah. Which means, replacing all workers with AI will not work out well. A wrench alone can’t fix your plumbing.
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“you fucking people” wow. So aggressive. Parachute-less skydiving was probably a good idea.
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Yeah, except that ai is almost 40% wrong, yet it pretends to know everything and sounds very convincing. It will never tell you “i don’t know” or “that’s a bad idea, don’t do that” like a real person or friend would do but instead encourages your with everything. Still, app developers sell ai chat bots as “virtual friends” to insecure people.
But AI can be inaccurate, which is a problem when trying to teach people things
For sure. You don’t just let it run the show. Nobody is saying there won’t be oversight.
The difference is that the actual revolutions like that generally use technology that actually works.
Have you ever used AI tools? What kinds of things are you expecting it to do? It can do a lot of minor tasks well.
This is the kind of guy who’s cool and okay about AI untill it takes their job.
Honestly, at this point I sort of wish there was a new technology that was as advanced and useful and revolutionary as the various hype-waves of the last few years have claimed, be it block chain, hyperloop or now AI. They all share in common that the hype just refuses to die because scammers love them even though their actual use cases are extremely limited.
So is there any Duolingo alternative that teaches Esperanto and Indonesian?
Esperanto you can learn on lernu.net
