• NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      Oh yay! Biden is on the same side as Putin and Xi, in disagreement with the rest of the world.

      Not quite the win I think you’re going for there.

      • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        The United Nations Security Council has failed to pass a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza as part of a hostage deal after Russia and China, who are permanent members, voted against the measure proposed by the United States.

        It’s literally the first paragraph of the article.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            They’re not the same: which horse does either Russia or China have in the race?

            US vetoed resolutions that were unfair to Israel or simply that Israel wouldn’t accept. You may not like this support of Israel but it it’s there

            Russia and China do not have an interest in either side. They do not strongly support either. They do not care about either, and they certainly do not care about human rights. This is just to say “ha ha, US didn’t get this done”, and so patsies online can say “derp, both same”

            • hark@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Unfair to israel? We really shouldn’t care about israel’s feelings when they’re committing outright genocide. You may not like the idea of the US being as bad as China or Russia, but in this case the US is actually worse since it’s actively supporting and funding this genocide. Throwing together a different resolution that gives israel leeway to continue their genocide but slightly altered is just to say “look, we tried” and so patsies online can say “derp, US are the good guys”

            • hark@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I was explaining how they’re the same. You know, for someone who likes explaining the obvious, you really did miss out on this obvious point being made, twice.

              • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                So because the US vetoed a measure earlier, them proposing a ceasefire now is grounds for Russia/China to veto?

                You sound like someone who thinks “no u” is a strong argument.

                • metaldream@sopuli.xyz
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                  8 months ago

                  They vetoing it because the US proposed a conditional ceasefire while Russia and China want an immediate unconditional ceasefire.

                • hark@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Did you reply to the wrong post? I was explaining how the US could be seen as the same as China and Russia on this issue because they’re taking turns vetoing each other’s resolutions. The original post was talking about Biden. I didn’t say anything about anyone having grounds to veto. It’d help to follow along the conversation before jumping into the middle of it.

          • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            Biden, through the US delegation, proposed this resolution, which Putin and Xi, through their delegations, vetoed. They’re literally on opposite sides of the issue.

    • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The Russian deputy ambassador to the UN, Dmitry Polyanskiy, warned reporters on Thursday: “We are not satisfied with anything which doesn’t call for an immediate ceasefire.”

      He argued that the effect of making a ceasefire conditional on the release of all hostages would be to endorse leaving hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians exposed to continued Israeli attacks until the point when Hamas and Isreal reached an agreement.

      In the chamber, the Russian ambassador Vasily Nebenzya told the security council the resolution was a “hypocritical spectacle” that put no real pressure on Israel over its war crimes. Moscow also said the episode showed the US administration was more interested in throwing a bone to American voters and persuading a domestic audience it was being even-handed in the crisis. Source

      So. Mission Accomplished.

      • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        It was still a ceasefire resolution, and one which was vetoed by Russia and China. I await the flood of tankie vitriol for those nations for supporting Israel’s pogrom against the Palestinians.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Israel is doing genocide in Gaza. A temporary ceasefire means to allow Israel to continue it’s genocide in Gaza and not cease all hostilities. There is a very big difference between a temporary ceasefire resolution and a permanent ceasefire resolution. That difference is exactly why Israel wants a temporary ceasefire and has rejected all permanent ceasefire proposals.

          If you want the genocide to end, you want a permanent ceasefire.

          • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            A ceasefire is just that - a cessation of firing, of hostilities. The US proposed one, and China and Russia vetoed it. That’s what means Israel is allowed to continue its genocide in Gaza.

            A ceasefire is a ceasefire, and the fact remains that there was political will to enact a resolution calling for one, had Russia and China not vetoed it.

              • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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                8 months ago

                A ceasefire is better than no ceasefire, and Russia and China blocked this one, proposed by the US. Your pretending like a ceasefire is useless unless it’s permanent is disingenuous.

                • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  The reality on the ground for Palestinians in Gaza are very different under a temporary ceasefire / humanitarian pause compared to a permanent / general ceasefire. The difference is far from negligible. You’ve seen how bad Gaza has gotten since Israel resumed after the last pause, how much worse do you think it’ll get when they resume a second time.

                  Nonetheless, some argue that using a humanitarian pause to provide a temporary halt in the bombing of Gaza is not enough. In a report calling for a general ceasefire, Oxfam said its experience is that such pauses can even put civilians at a greater risk, as there is usually less clarity involved about safe zones and the duration of pauses.

                  But the US and other allies of Israel continue to press Netanyahu for at least a pause in Israel’s assault. He insists that while “little pauses” might be arranged to allow for the exit of hostages or to facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid, a longer halt in hostilities is not possible until all hostages taken by Hamas are released. And so the killing continues

                  Israel-Hamas war: there is an important difference between a humanitarian pause and a ceasefire

                  • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
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                    8 months ago

                    Again, more false dichotomy. A temporary ceasefire is better than no ceasefire at all, and the fact remains that the reason there will be no ceasefire resolution as a result of the US proposal is because Russia and China vetoed it. They share responsibility for the continued violence in Gaza.