He chose this method? Are people THAT scared of needles that they’d prefer getting shot?
I don’t think you understand how unreliable the other execution methods are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOn3wba8c-Y
Getting shot in the heart/head is pretty fast.
It’s the shit chemicals being injected that don’t kill you for an hour that scares people.
Rank Of Preferences of what I would most prefer to do after reading this, starting with most preferred!
- be shot by a firing squad
- die by lethal injection
- visit south carolina
Barbaric idiots.
Death penalties don’t help to fight crime, as has been proven over and over again.
Cruelty is the point
I’ve had several surgeries in my life that required a general anesthetic. There is no excuse or justification, other than sadism, for suffering here. Shouldn’t have the death penalty in the first place.
Except for the fact they let him choose his method of executions. I mean, being against the death penalty in general is one thing, but the sentence was passed out and the convict chose that method.
Choose between three painful methods.
Of those firing squad probably least to be honest. The lethal injection and electric chair are just too slow and unreliable.
They shoot in the heart instead of in the head so ymmv
The sudden loss of blood pressure would make it pretty quick I think
Would that also cut off the pain from the spine?
There is no ethical, or painless, way to kill someone who doesn’t want to die.
Giving them an overdose of opioids and then electrocuting them would be less painful.
I fould prefer this over drowning in lung fluid, or being slowly electrocuted also.
Heck, execution is preferable to how the average person lives their lives.
I remember seeing some war footage or something of a guy being executed from a meter away by a truck mounted .50 caliper gun. His head just disappeared. After my initial, holy shit! why did I just watch that, I thought, I can’t think of a better way to go. Minus the buildup.
personally I don’t believe in an afterlife. I do believe that once your organs cease to function your brains gets a cocktail boost that sets you into a fast dreamlike state. think of it like a naturally induced coma that you might never wake up from.
in this state is when you have your “afterlife”. I believe it’s an evolved trait that allows the brain to survive as long as possible after a traumatic death.
In my perspective, shooting a person in the head is just about the worst thing you can do because it robs them of those final moments where they could possibly live out an entire lifetime.
I would much rather die naturally, but will gladly take a slow painful death that will guarantee me my final moments instead of a “blip you’re dead forever” moment.
I agree with this. It may even be a mechanism to send you off to the next realm or something.
You’re entitled to your own personal beliefs, but you should know that your belief is inconsistent with the current scientific understanding of biology and consciousness.
What do you suppose is the case then?
The human brain is a biological machine comprised of a very large number of simple components that follow the laws of physics. Some combinations of those components interacting in a certain way results in what we consider to be consciousness, but it’s still just a chemical reaction based on purely physical processes. When a brain’s components stop interacting in that way, its consciousness ceases to exist.
I believe that as soon as you are dead, your consciousness ends until the next time it is back. And since over an infinite amount of time, anything is inevitable. I am very afraid to die, because I’m afraid I won’t stay dead. But yeah, I don’t see why they waste chemicals, or electricity when bullets are cheap and humane.
good, fuck every other kind of execution.
Obviously capital punishment isn’t ideal. But this one actually works so lmao.
The article said he laid gasping for breath for up to 80 seconds after taking the shots. What are you referring to as something that “actually works”?
I find all forms of capital retribution to be barbaric, in addition to having the problem of killing potentially innocent people. Add to that it’s hard to argue that a justice-system can even exist when a prosecutor can just dangle the death penalty over a defendants head if they don’t sign a plea.
-With all of that in mind I’ve always found the idea of a firing squad to be the least unappealing option out of all of the multiple unappealing options. Guns were specifically designed to effectively kill people with hundreds of years of iteration built into them. Our military and our Allies military sometimes even use them to kill children. a skilled shooter and a stationary target can make it quick. -At least, that’s what I can imagine.
The can on “cruel and unusual punishment” had always been a farce.
It is said that it has to be both {cruel && unusual} simultaneously to be unconstitutional. The more they carry out these “new methods” like nitrogen gassing the more ‘usual’ it becomes.
well no, nitrogen gassings aren’t “cruel”, they’re novel.
What they mean when they say cruel and unusual is some shit like strapping a guy into a 2007 camry, sending it down a mountain into a fucking lake, until he drowns.
That’s oddly specific. Did I miss something?
no, it’s just an example of something that would be considered both cruel, and unusual punishment, to provide a sufficient example.
You can’t just look at something like nitrogen gassing and go “its cruel because it’s killing someone, and also unusual because it isn’t utilized often” It has to be literally cruel, as in, you shouldn’t do it period (general US laws would forbid it kind of a thing) and unusual in the sense that you would literally never do it.
I can’t wait until we go back to stoning or burning at the stake. The US is going to undo the entire Reformation period.
My money is on Massachusetts bringing back Pressing.
Seems like a guillotine would be far more humane. No 80 seconds of breathing - man that must be like an eternity of pain.
A modern justice system would be even better.
Well, multiple scientists and doctors during the French Revolution reported that multiple victims maintained consciousness, briefly, after being beheaded, up to 30 seconds. One such incident happened in 1905, to a French criminal named Henri Languille. The French used the guillotine as the State method for executions up until 1981. The last beheading was in 1977.
https://mikedashhistory.com/2011/01/25/some-experiments-with-severed-heads/
In short, it’s not painless, and does not cause instant unconsciousness. If that was the goal, they’d render the “criminal” unconscious before execution.
But then, that’s not the point, is it?
I don’t believe up to 30 seconds is possible. A proper choke in judo can render a person unconscious in ~6 seconds. Looping the head off would be a complete cessation of blood flow, You probably would experience your head starting to roll into the basket, but you’d be long gone before you hit the bottom.
What is the point?
To make the person being executed suffer.
Do this need to be explained to you?
I don’t really think that. I hear the phrase a lot and I just don’t think that’s true
is that sleep capsule used in assisted suicide for the terminally ill in some European countries too expensive? or is it a problem because that would be too peaceful?
when I was in my 20s I overdosed on ambien because I wanted out, but was saved because I sleep walked and passed out outside and some people who knew me helped. It was painless and all I remeber was taking the pills and nothing after.
You may know the story, but Jim Jeffries (Jeff Nugent,) the Australian comedian, has (had?) a friend with Muscular Dystrophy, who died multiple times, briefly.
When asked if there was anything beyond death, the friend said “No.”
So guillotine, but instead of a blade, just put a 2ft cube of steel to smash the entire head
Compressed air spike to the base of the head. You’d be dead before the sensation of pain could be registered.
I mean, we put cows down with a pneumatic hammer to the skull (Except the last place where I bought 200lbs of ground beef, found a bullet in that one. Also began questioning what parts were in the meat but I had already made 100 burgers and no one had become ill by that point…)
This would be a little different. It’s a spike that goes through the base of the skull and then fires high-pressure air into the brain. It pretty much rips the brain to shreds instantly.
✍️
No, some morphine. Night night, then… nighty night.
Republicans love to kill.
Now they get to use more guns to do it.
How long until these executions are televised live on Fox?
public executions, probably will include multiple people. it would be pay-per -view
Football stadiums have dual use now!
Pro-life. 🙄
Pro-Life until you are born. Once you are born, you’re fucked.
-Rough George Carlin quote
“If you’re pre-born, you’re protected. If you’re Pre-K, you’re fucked!”
But they told me they’re pro-life. What a monumental disparity, how do we proceed?
Abort them.
One of them post birth ones?
Honestly much better than lethal injection. Lethal injection is slow and tortuous but looks less violent.
I’d rather be give a fuck ton of herion and ran over with a bulldozer. If that’s not available chop my head off
It sounds pretty freakin cruel to me but I’ll just post this quote and link:
source: Discover
“The physician concluded based on his observations that a severed head could retain consciousness for 25 to 30 seconds.”
I’d assume with the spine severed like that you wouldn’t feel much pain.
Plus with lethal injection it’s common for it to take hours. Just sitting their slowly drowning as your lungs fill with fluid. I’ll take the 25 to 30 seconds
I’m convinced lethal injection was intentionally designed to be agony, and torture. There are too many accounts by eyewitnesses of it not being peaceful, and painless.
Létal injection work well in theory
The problem is, skilled people don’t want to do it. And pharmaceutical companies don’t want their products used in it. So it’s done by unskilled people with a reduced access to products.
Afaik the process itself is fine, but it involves things like starting an IV and dosing, and people who are skilled in those kinds of things tend not to be the kind of people who are okay with assisting in an execution. So, the ones who end up doing it are basically cops with a syringe, and -big shock- fuck it up cuz they’re either too stupid to do it correctly or too evil to want to.
I think this applies more widely than just doctors. As a pilot, I could design an execution protocol using nitrogen that would be dirt cheap and totally painless. Any other pilot could write the same one. But I wouldn’t do it, not if you paid me a million dollars. There are too many cases of innocent people getting executed, so I want nothing to do with any of it. Our judicial system is good, but it is not good enough to be relied on for taking life. So I would do nothing to help justify or condone or make tolerable the act of executing prisoners.
Also, this execution is a perfect example. Three bullets to the heart should kill someone dead in seconds. But the article mentions him crying out and flexing for the better part of a minute. That makes me think all three executioners missed the heart, perhaps on purpose.
You’re more of an optimist than me.
Holy shit, now that might be the first time anyone’s accused me of that.
Misery loves company I guess. /internet-hug from one dejected motherfucker to another.
Bro, I’m so deep in a depression hole right now. Thanks, I appreciate it.
have another
hug
👍
Mainly because the drugs administered as anesthesia and loss of consciousness weren’t enough and people botched them in myriad ways, from my current understanding.
Exactly. The protocol was written by somebody with no medical training. So the first drug knocks the person out, the second drug paralyzes them, and the third drug stops the heart. Problem is, the third drug if given to a conscious person is incredibly painful. This created situations where the first drug was dosed wrong, so the person woke up but was unable to move.
Lethal injection could be much better done with a single drug system, like a massive overdose of barbiturates, but I think there is an unspoken desire to avoid any death that might be considered 'pleasant". Which to be honest is completely barbaric in my opinion.
You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.
It was ALWAYS intended to not be enough.
I saw it and thought it was plain to see.
My bad, then.
No worries. It was opaque and others may have needed to understand.
Copy that. Have a good one.
That’s not a good story… Ask if they have a mallet!
I’ll just take that heroin od
Yeah, I’ve overdosed before, it’s a swift, painless slide into the dark.
Username checks out.
Yeah. But I’m clean now and still alive to regret that particular incident, could be worse
Edit - I wanted to bring it back in a witty way to your username checking out too but fuck me it’s beyond my ability
Sorry for being late, but fucking go you! I look forward to limiting my vices at least as much as you.
Edit: and you totally could’ve done something with hemorrhoids for other homie’s un
Dammit! You’re right, there was definitely a hemorrhoids joke there . . . isn’t it always the way that you never get the idea until way too late!
Yeah don’t give me too much applause - I will still have an occasional pipe of crack, maybe once every couple of months. Because I fuckin like it and that’s that. I’m getting too old for that shit though -my smart watch gives me an unusual heartbeat warning when I do stimulants. I also still drink too much, I still smoke cigarettes and the occasional joint, I still have a shitty diet. These are things I need to change. But yeah, I don’t do smack anymore. It was part of my life for many wasted years. It took me way too long to finally quit. But I did it. . . and so can you. Probably better than me. The rest of my stuff is a work in progress - though I am finding I feel better the next day if I go to sleep sober.
I don’t wanna give you advice because we all different people with different shit. What worked for me might not be right for you. And I’m no fuckin guru! I’d just say pick a date and stick to it. Don’t beat yourself up about relapses, just get back on that wagon and keep going. And get whatever medical and social support you can. All the best mate
Username fucks out(hole).
All killing is murder, states are just gangs big enough to have a PR team and the ability to indoctrinate the youth into following their rules.
Good on South Carolina for making that more plain.
All killing is murder
homicide*
Murder is just homicide that’s illegal; and legality should never be conflated with morality. In any context, not just killing.
Being sanctioned by the state doesn’t make it moral; and being illegal doesn’t make it immoral (and yes, homicide can be moral).
I tell forced birthers even if I am murdering a conscious being, I’m justified in protecting myself from unnecessary, nonconsented harm
The state having a Monopoly on violence is sort of the point of a social contract. That being said I’m not a proponent of the death penalty. Life is sacred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_in_the_United_States
Currently, only New Hampshire has a law specifying hanging as an available secondary method of execution, now only applicable to one person, who was sentenced to capital punishment by the state prior to its repeal in 2019.
The hanging of Billy Bailey is likely to be the final hanging in the United States, considering that all three of the states that maintained hanging as a secondary method of execution alongside lethal injection after the 1976 restoration of the death penalty have now abolished executions. Delaware’s Supreme Court declared the death penalty to be in violation of their state constitution in 2016,[21] Washington abolished executions in 2018,[22] and New Hampshire abolished executions in 2019.[23] However, the last person on death row in the three states is Michael K. Addison in New Hampshire, convicted in 2008 of the 2006 murder of Michael Briggs, an on-duty police officer. Should the state carry out Addison’s execution, the method could be hanging if lethal injection was found unconstitutional or inefficient, or if he chooses to be executed by hanging.
Talk about a go-down-in-the-history-books opportunity.
Since the last execution in New Hampshire was a botched hanging in 1939 that took 6 minutes for the guy to die, I kind of doubt the court would allow them to go through with that.
Lol, wait until the current admin threatens to withhold funds for not hanging X amount of criminals per month.
They’d rather just outsource it to El Salvador I think
The wheel of karma continues to turn.
If only karma was real. We live in a world where evil thrives. Every now and then an evil fuck ‘gets what’s coming to them’ but the vast majority of them live long and very prosperous lives, not just unimpaired, but actively enriched by their evil. Through their life of luxury, they enjoy an obscenely long lifespan and eventually croak in some unspectacular way. Karma is a nice daydream, but that’s all it is.
Karma is real. Just because it isn’t instant doesn’t mean it isn’t. Karma is doing what “they” do to us, because they deserve it and we don’t. Retribution. Then they gain power and repeat the cycle. Karma is the opportunity to learn: if it’s wrong when someone does it to us, it’s wrong when we do it to them. “They” are “you.”
Dharma is stepping off the wheel and seeking justice - balance, equitably, harmony. Because when one person levels up, it inspires someone else to put forth effort; and when another chooses to devolve, that inspires others to devolve.
Re-education/rehabilitation, forgiveness, doing the work together is the path of dharma, mastering self first, and helping others to master themselves. Not doing it for them. Not having no clear and enforced boundaries. Truth is on a spectrum, too. That is, there is a tipping point where truth becomes lie. And retribution is that tipping point
Put another way: wisdom without compassion of brutality. Compassion without wisdom is folly.
Eta: This is the ignorance that leads to suffering that Buddha referenced. The necklace of skulls worn by Kali are the heads of ignorance she’s severed. Om Krim Kalima!
…I’m not really following, but I’m also exhausted and shouldn’t be anywhere near the internet right now.
I think we each might be understanding the word “karma” to mean something different. My understanding boils down to: do good to others, good things will happen to you; do bad to others, bad things will happen to you.
My observation is that the version I just described is fantasy. It’s not that it’s not instant, it’s that it’s completely absent. For every oppressor that meets a nasty end (feeding a confirmation bias to the existence of karma) there are dozens live their life of bliss only to die peacefully in their sleep of old age.
And I don’t believe in any afterlife, so I’m not going to count on some kind of ‘hell’ deliver the thusfar missing justice: they reached the finish line and that’s it. If karma - again as I understand it - was real, those fuckers would be much more motivated not to be evil, but here we are, completely surrounded by evil.
So I hear you about afterlife. Buddha didn’t address it and basically said it’s irrelevant. And since it’s not instant, and often returns to people from other sources in many ways, we often don’t associate correlation.
Bear with me a moment. If the kingdom of heaven is within, eg a state of being, look at perhaps the diary of Anne Frank. That is heaven. She lived in inner harmony, with a clear conscience. Dark triads understand emotions, they have them. They just can’t imagine anyone else feeling sorrow, pain, etc. I dare say most of the populace don’t seem to grasp realistic ideas of love. If they’re told they are loved with intermittent rewards and constant neglect, trauma bonds form. But how many who don’t get constant “I love you” in words and cuddles can draw the line from working overtime to provide extras, pay for extracurricular activities, making sure the vehicle is safe and maintained as love? Mowing and raking, cleaning, cooking? We’re so wrapped up in our own traumas, we tend to not consider what led our loved ones to have avoidant or inexpressive attachment style. And it takes work on both parts to resolve serious issue or part with love and forgiveness.
Now imagine the emptiness and inner turmoil inside the dark triad types. Every abusive word and deed is generated by that. Even if they don’t believe they need therapeutic intervention, they live with that.
PTSD, C-ptsd, CTE, were all poorly understood and treatment (societal) was retribution and isolation. We still do that with people we know had suffered abuse, from public leaders to school shooters. What lasting benefit does that bring society? Real solutions are expensive in time, money, consistency, but without them, dark triads keep being in business and social leadership positions, school shootings still happen. That is collective karma for collectively and continuously failing to address issues.
Life isn’t fair. It rains on the day of someone’s long awaited celebration, but also on the garden that yield sustinance. A life ends, another begins. The universe seems equilibrium, not equality and will balance itself. Dharma is the ability to accept that, in peace. The changes we seek in society means facing and fixing the worst of ourselves and strengthening the best. If we want leaders who aren’t twisted and corrupt, we have to take the time to fix ourselves, our own twistedness and corruption, and modeling that best behavior clearly and consistently to the generations behind us. It’s a slow process, not McDonald’s drive-through or you get McDonald’s drive-through solutions with McDonald’s drive - through results, like Bernie Madoff, hrc/djt, retributive segregation like CECOT, Rikers and Guantanamo and death penalities.
We all want better working conditions, better social conditions, better pay, how many are willing to suffer, die, to make it happen, or even get off Lemmy to attend public meetings, talk to neighbors with differing beliefs IRL? So we keep doing what we’ve been doing and keep getting the same results. That’s karma, failure to learn the lesson and correct ourselves. Dharma begins with understanding I can’t fix anything until I fix me, or have at least made consistent demonstrable progress. Then I have to put the same effort in my community where I can realistically contribute, take risks and be willing to suffer personal consequences for rewards I personally may not reap.
Apologies if I have to come back and clean this up. My device is doing a things where my field of vision is the beginning of this post, not where I’m typing.
Edited typos
Like I said, I think we’re talking about two different things. I didn’t intend to stir up any religious lore - my understanding and use of “karma” is the secular context of basically “what goes around comes comes around”. …and in the context of anything measurable within the scope of the lifespan of the person in question, karma doesn’t exist.
Maybe Buddha will pick out all the bad apples after they die and personally stomp on their testicles over the next million or so years as punishment for their evil: idk. But in the tiny 4 dimensional sliver of existence that we happen to live in, we’re on our own. And a recurring theme within that sliver is that being evil, especially on a large scale, will be rewarded constantly.
It’s the same thing. We think when we do a thing to others, in thought, word, act or omission, it’s justified, but when someone else does it to us, it’s different. That someone need not be the same individual or group, can be of a slightly different but related form, and it can be decades later, so we fail to relate. Karma is an invitation to confront our shadow selves, work with the shadow, recognize why it’s there, how it no longer serves us, love it, forgive it and heal. We fail to recognize the invitation, accept it, do the work, we keep getting opportunities for that, sometimes in incrementally harsher forms. That doesn’t mean boundaries and enforcement/correction are inappropriate, but that those things are a fool’s errand, and will repeat the cycle eventually, without having done our shadow work. There are a bunch of YT Videos if you care to know more. If not, that’s ok too. Be happy and well (btw I mentioned in the prior post that Buddha said he didn’t know if there is an afterlife and it’s moot).
You think this is karma? Even he was guilty of heinous shit, he deserves to rot in obscurity.
