So far there’s subscriptions for cruise control, adaptive beams, various navigation options, apple/google integration and my favorite, dual-zone climate.
Dealerships love to sell cars by monthly payment. Subscriptions fit right into that model. Heated seats are just another $5 a month! So with <huge list of features> that monthly payment is only $330 a month….on a 9 year car loan. People will absolutely do this.
and so the enshittification continues…
That’s not what that word…you know what, fuck it. I give up. Enshittification now just means “becoming worse” and I won’t be able to stop that.
i guess the enshittification of enshittification is part of the enshittification then?!
Doors this apply to Europe too?
Has this been cracked, so people using these features bypassing the paywall?
Seems like this practice is banned in the EU, yeah.
The Dutch article that they look to doesn’t say what they think it says. In Netherlands there are legal implications to change the amount of power of engine after it is sold.
The article doesn’t is solely about engine power. Not about any other subscription option to enable something.
I also wouldn’t see how a stupid subscription would be banned by some EU law. Aside from e.g. engine power.
From the article:
It should be noted that this subscriptions-for-features model applies to the European-spec A3. An Audi spokesperson declined to comment on whether these in-car subscriptions will also make it to the US when the car goes on sale for 2025.
This shit should be illegal. When you buy a device, you own all the hardware and have every right to use it to the full extent of its physical capabilities. Audi has no right to hold your property hostage!
Nope.
If you are leasing subscriptions it makes sense. Or for certain features.
I couldn’t care less as long as the option to buy remains. I’d almost certainly end up subbing though on my next lease.
Why do you hate property rights?
Mans dad is the regional manager at Audi of Greater Akron
Assistant to the regional manager.
Yeah, that’s what he said. Assistant regional manager.
On the other hand, my car has a cell connection that allows me to find its position, remotely start, un/lock doors, call for emergency, and detect an accident. That’s not free. It ends up being around $160/y—which I think it a little spendy.
I don’t pay for it, because the only thing I really wanted was the gps position, and I just got an Apple tag for that haha.
My car has a 4g cell connection that allow me to find its position, check the battery level, lock it, unlock it, call for emergency, play online music, check for update, set up the interior temperature or seat heating and use it as a WiFi hotpsot in the car.
I’m would have prefered no connection but I’m not paying a dime for it.
Things that legitimately rely on an outside service are different. You understand how those are different, right?
Cruise control doesn’t require Audi to maintain a fucking server for you.
I am ok with a charge for things that require the manufacturer to run a server. But only if that charge is related to the actual cost , and that cost is unavoidable. Regarding that last point: my Garmin satnav lets me use my own mobile data to get live traffic information. Car makers don’t give you that option.
Car makers don’t give you that option.
Except they do if you have Android Auto. Literally none of that has any bearing whatsoever on subscriptions for cruise control though.
According to the article, apple car play and android auto also require a subscription. So no, they don’t give you the choice.
Subscription to a cell carrier maybe? I’ve used Android Auto in particular a bunch. It connects to my phone and uses Google maps, which is non subscription. Admittedly it’s been a bit, I suppose Google could have crippled it since I last used it, but I have my doubts. My mother uses it regularly and I guarantee she’d be throwing a fit if she needed to pay to do so.
Nope. Read the first line of the article. Apple CarPlay won’t work unless you pay Audi a subscription fee. I’m not surprised, I had an A3 a few years ago and that already had subscriptions built in. But they came with a 3 year license and Audi UK would extend that for a year at a time, free of charge as they had not worked out how to charge for it. They have worked it out now.
I have a different look on this, but it’s just the way i see it: if a manufacturer puts a function in your car that requires them to run a server then that server is on them, they put the function in there not me.
I buy the car, it’s mine in all it’s functionality. If they don’t want that, then don’t put it in.
How else am I, a humble car artisan (cartisan, if you’re feeling naughty), supposed to continue to generate obscene levels of wealth for my shareholders if I can’t continue to milk customers?
That’s the neat part: you’re not!
You will own nothing and be “happy”.
Absolutely insane to me that you’d pay $35k for a car, and then pay a subscription for basics like cruise control and phone connectivity. The free market free marketing again. Legislate against this now.
A fifth of users in the US rent the car itself via lease mechanisms. You aren’t the target.
Assuming there are discounts the folks leasing will use these options.
A fifth
Surely their target would be the four fifths, then?
Have they excluded that audience? As far as I know you can still purchase the vehicle or feature instead of lease.
Only by upgrading to the MMI navigation system do you get access to the app store. From there, Audi forces you into add-ons like adaptive cruise control or Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for a one-month, six-month, one-year, or three-year subscription. Or you can just purchase any of those features permanently—although Audi doesn’t say for how much.
Sounds like you’re right, but people are still right to be wary of this scheme, as the additional market segmentation will likely push up the cost of buying the feature outright. Audi is incentivized to push as many people toward the subscription model as possible to decrease the value of used vehicles.
I will worry when it happens. The car market is very competitive and vehicle reliability, safety, and feature set has improved significantly in the last 15 years.
You’re worth blocking
I’m so fucking sorry I pointed out the reality of people purchasing these cars. I’ll promise to never point out any data to you again if you just don’t block me!
You haven’t provided any data, just you talking.
Oh here, let me go find that very available data with a 2.5 second Google search since you don’t understand the car market, have probably never in your life purchased a new vehicle, and just want to argue.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/453122/share-of-new-vehicles-on-lease-usa/
This is trash I have to register and by the looks of it pay just to view the “statistics”.
No why would I need to buy a new car when my current one is fine
Then as stated, you are not the fucking customer here. Not sure why that’s so hard to accept.
Why are you all over this thread shilling for a predatory subscription model by a multibillion dollar corporation? Very strange behavior.
Because this thread is an echo chamber. I know pointing out the target use case is very problematic and odd. I’ll be quite and you all can continue to ignore that a fifth of buyers rent the entire vehicle for 3 years and haven’t been doing it for 50.
I’m not even saying you’re wrong necessarily, but it’s just very weird behavior to take this aggressive of a pro-corporate stance on something I think everyone should agree is a shitty, unnecessary practice. Regardless of the use case, locking features behind a paywall is always a shitty thing for a multibillion dollar company to do.
People like the option. It’s not weird at all to believe that having different options for owning, leading, and renting allows more access to the vehicle and products. The original comment is about limiting how I pay for a car. Leasing+ subscription works for many customers.
People like the option to have already installed equipment just not work if they don’t pay the subscription? Like the car already has the features and the company is saying “we included this equipment in the price of your lease/purchase already but if you’d like to use it you have to keep paying more.”
Even in the case of a lease, this is just anti-consumer bullshit
With BMW and Toyota it was cheaper to sub for 3 years than purchase outright. Yes, that’s an attractive option.
A leased car with those options 5 years ago didn’t cost you a subscription, and now they will. You want the option to what? Pay more for something that you didn’t have to before?
Again, on both the Toyota and BMW, it was less expensive than purchasing the options. You did pay for them before. They were never free.
Why? Who is going to buy it?
You when the only other option is to use public transport in a country with the worst public transportation of any western nation because instead of calling on the government to do something you said “it doesn’t effect me so why should I care?”
Bold to assume anyone has the money for an audi
If it’s profitable and they get away with it you know every other car company will do the same.
I come back to my question. Who is going to buy it?
I wish they had a remind me bot here because I think that this comment will age like milk over the next 5 years.
The answer is: enough people to make it profitable.
Lol. Bold prediction.
I predict you won’t come back to admit you were wrong.
But that’s not the only other option. So why would anyone buy it? No reason to create laws for a non-issue.
Headline is enough for me to never consider purchasing an Audi.
Toyota is out. Mercedes is out. Audi is out. Who else?
I use Linux and Lemmy, if they think they are going to get me to buy a subscription for cruise control they are out of their mind.
BMW was the first I think to announce subscriptions but they backtracked after negative feedback. Hopefully they stay that way, as I do love my bimmers. All it takes is one holdout.
I’d rather drive around an open source rustbox than buy a sub.
I’ve kinda been looking at the price of used cars and have started thinking – I’m an engineer, I can probably learn how to replace my Subaru’s engine myself. I’ll just ride it til the wheels fall off.
As an engineer with a Subaru that needs a new engine (among other cars in various states of disrepair) I can tell you that, at least for me, the problem isn’t necessarily knowing what to do on a conceptual level. The problem is the physical difficulty of removing and installing parts (contorting yourself to reach a thing deep in the engine bay and then having the strength to break free rusted bolts, etc.). If you go for it, I highly recommend having an actual garage with a roof and a door you can close instead of trying to do it in your driveway, so that you can walk away from it and come back later without having to worry that your tools will get stolen or rained on.
Hey that sounds like building a PC only with rust as a bonus challenge!
Yeah for sure. I get frustrated and walk away a lot. But then I get frustrated with giving up and go back. Actual garage is a must lol. I’d probably get a car friend to come help where Im struggling.
Hey that sounds like building a PC only with rust as a bonus challenge!
Rust, grime, heavy shit, bending over/crawling under, and weather, yeah. It’s much more physically challenging than building a PC (and a little more technically complicated too, since you have to worry about torque specs and such).
I’m not trying to discourage anybody from doing it, just saying not to underestimate it.
As someone who is seemingly constantly working on computers and has done a ton of engine building and other deep car stuff, in addition to the garage mentioned previously, I’d recommend buying a buildable engine core for your subaru, getting that built (either do it yourself - recommended, or by a machine shop - will probably work well, but will cost a lot of $$) and having it ready to install rather than trying to pull the existing engine out and rebuilding it - especially if the current engine still runs.
Unless your plan is to make a hobby of having exploded cars in the yard, this’ll go a long way towards putting an end in sight for an engine rebuilding venture.
Also fuck all car subscriptions - that’s some gross profiteering right there…
I’d recommend buying a buildable engine core for your subaru, getting that built (either do it yourself - recommended, or by a machine shop - will probably work well, but will cost a lot of $$) and having it ready to install rather than trying to pull the existing engine out and rebuilding it - especially if the current engine still runs.
How do you feel about those 60k miles used engines from Japan?
(My engine appears to have that “spun bearing caused by cornering-induced oil starvation” problem that’s apparently common to EJ205s.)
You will never get sprayed in the face with hot poison fixing your PC. You will never have to apply a torch to your siezed up cpu. Your PC falling on you won’t kill you. You will never have to replace your PC component in -15° weather.
Building a PC is something like .1% the effort IMO.
Edit: in fact, what about it do you find pretty hard? I can’t think of anything I’ve ever done that made me frustrated enough that I felt like I needed to walk away. Or even took particularly long. Maybe I’m just building crappy machines or something.
It’s like 2k for an engine swap in an easy vehicle.
By the time you purchase tools, a half ton lift, etc you’ll be halfway there.
Unless you hate life I’d save up for the professional swap. You’re already find to attend 3-4 on a used engine.
Tesla, certainly. BMW also.
Subaru still seems to be okay.
I have a 2022. It’s not terrible, but there’s definitely a subscription for remote start and a few other connected type features. Nothing related to actual driving once you’re in the car though.
Tesla was one of the original pioneers with FSD subscriptions. BMW had heated seat subscriptions but walked it back. They do have a subscription for the “drive recorder” camera but you can pay a one time fee to permanently unlock it so that’s at least acceptable.
They do have a subscription for the “drive recorder” camera but you can pay a one time fee to permanently unlock it so that’s at least acceptable.
Edit: incidentally the permanent price is the same as if you bought it on your car new.
I disagree: if the physical hardware came on the car, the owner is entitled to use it (that’s how property rights work). Therefore, BMW should be forced to either charge everybody for it as a standard feature or physically not include the hardware for the people who aren’t getting it.
Hardware that’s artificially locked behind DRM – which is what being “activatable” by even a one-time fee after the fact really is – is and a a direct attack on property rights and therefore entirely unacceptable!
Toyota is doing the subscription thing too? I didn’t hear about that one. I only heard about BMW, Mercedes, and now Audi.
If Toyota/Lexus is out, then I guess my plans of buying an AWD coupe as my next car are truly dead.
Looks like all they do is: Music streaming directly from your infotainment ($15), live navigation + new voice commands + 24/7 agent in case you need support ($15), both above ($25, wow, such sale), and some AT&T specific bullshit where you can apparently make your car a hotspot ($25).
https://www.toyota.com/connected-services/
All in all, all of them useless, and absolutely not required. All of them are covered by having a phone with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.
None of that is at all required, they include all the usual Apple/Google phone link systems so all of that is very easily ignored. The only real problem with Toyota is the DCM sim modem, which you can get removed, and their data collection which you can opt out of.
Toyota was gonna do it for remote starters, I believe.
Subaru is an AWD option.
I get a subscription for remit stats that use cell. I don’t want that, why would I want that, when conventional remote start works great.
Best part, remote start for Toyota is about a $100 thru party add-on that takes 10 minutes to install. Put one im a friend’s Taco last year.
Remote start through an app I guess? At least that conceivably requires an ongoing cost on their side to justify it (although I’d be willing to bet there’s a 10,000% markup on it). Will be annoying if they are using a 3G chip for the data connection and 3G gets shut down like 2G did.
As for the AWD thing, it’s the coupe part that’s hard. The Germans all make a coupe with AWD available, Lexus has the RC, and that’s about it (since the challenger is end of production), other than supercars that are out of my price range.
Depends on how easy it is to jailbreak.
IIRC, Hyundai is out.
Are they?
They charge for the stuff that actually requires server infrastructure after 3 years, I believe. Which is the one case that seems reasonable to me as long as it’s not gouging. But I hadn’t heard about anything else.
Sweats in Apples “Courage” to remove the headphone jack
Anyone…? Hello?
Bicycles and feet, if you can.
I have an Audi, it is a great car. I dont lioe subscriptions so I wouldnt get into that type of deal but there are workarounds also.
Man… What’s Toyota doing?
Mazda is still good I think.
But they’re kinda expensive and they gatekeep features to their higher tiers, that other manufacturers keep to their lower ones.
Hyundai perhaps, but they’ve also had other issues.
Hyundai perhaps, but they’ve also had other issues.
I can’t find an article about it right now, but I could’ve sworn they tried to pull some subscription bullshit (other than “Bluelink” or “Evolve+,” which are relatively legit) a while back, too.
At the very least I believe the only thing they’re currently doing is Bluelink (remote find your car, start car over the Internet, etc). But maybe there’s something they started in the last 6 months I haven’t heard about.
Mazda no, they are harassing the app developers who use their API https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/10/13/removal-of-mazda-connected-services-integration/
Yeah but the only thing Mazda charges a subscription for is the extra unnecessary bullshit that is coordinated through their servers. Thats a fair value proposition, even though I’d never pay for it. Heated seats, radar cruise control, shit like that still just comes with the car.
I was considering an A3 for my next new car. Nope. Not anymore.
Same. I have an a3 tfsi-e and the adaptive cruise control is subscription based ( which i learned after i started leasing ).
Last audi i will have.
No vw brands, no bmw, no tesla. Who will i go to in 3 years? :/I’m in my second Audi but it will be my last. This subscription shit should be boycotted.
This subscription shit should be prohibited by law.
The real problem here is that the FTC is failing to do its goddamn job.
Not only ftc, the eu is as well…
In the US we used to at least be able to reply on CA to pass laws to prevent a lot of this shit, which ended up benefitting most of the rest of the country. But they’ve been real tolerant/lazy too.
And, well, Congress mainly.
deleted by creator
Welcome to Lemmy.
Living in an Amess Paradise
Reposted once or twice
I don’t find that Lemmy has particularly poor titles, on average.
Amess is actually a word.
It means, to ruin (something) or to make many mistakes in doing (something).
I made sure I got it from an American English dictionary, Merriam Webster, anticipation of those who say that it doesn’t belong to American English. 🤷♂️
Is there a way to ‘jailbreak’ these cars?
You bet there is, and will be a whole industry doing it.
Good, I don’t see a problem then, companies can go fuck themselves
Edit: wanted to clarify that I don’t think it’s not a problem in itself, it certainly is, but it is a direct consequence of people being dumb, even announcing a plan like this should cause a complete boycott, but I don’t think most people cared
Yeah until it requires some sort of decryption to do, and people get sued for that, etc.
Hmm, I am no expert, but how can they sue me for hacking my own car, I should be able to do whatever I want, atmost they should be able to cancel my warranty
DMCA violation.
Man starting a car hacking company would be fun.
If people don’t just say no to this garbage, it will continue. Honestly I think I’m gonna go to an Audi dealership this weekend and crank the salesguys up before walking out on principle.
You should go yell at the McDonald’s cashier next. That’ll really stick it to the man and definitely not fuck up some dude just paying rent.
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen. Tesla heated seates need subscription? Heres a 20$ dongle to turn it on forever. Hyundai remote start subscription? Here take this 80$ remote to start it forever. Bmw fake exhaust sound onley comes with M sports pack and costs over a thousand? Give me 10$ and ill turn that on and turn on everything else that is hidden.
That remote start actually relies on an external service, so paying for it makes sense. Evetything else though? Yeah, fuck em.
Remote start trough an app is not possible to crack, but if you add a remote control like you have for a garage than it just sends a signal to start the car and doesnt use any services.
I mean you could, the real problem is it’s probably not legal for someone to make kits to replace what you would need to.
100% legal, you can loose your keys and go to a lockpicker and he would make you new keys and add them to your car. Its not legal id you do this to another car in the night and drive away with the car to sell it 😂
Perhaps, but that’s still a little different than selling a kit that replaces the factory equipment to replace the app and would depend on how exactly it was accomplished, after all those infotainment systems have license agreements, while I may be allowed to modify the software for my own head unit, providing it to others probably isn’t allowed, especially if I’m making a profit. So while it’s the kind of thing that should be legal, I’m guessing if anyone started selling kits to replace the dealer app with a third party one they’d be going to court.
As much as I’d love for people to do this, there’s probably a ton of software safeguards to prevent this. Even if you’d get around it, those greedy fuckers will undoubtedly void your warranty. And somehow that’s legal too.
Maybe? With my Mazda, activating the navigation system was a matter of spending $10 on an SD card with everything preloaded onto it. Disabling infotainment warnings, reenabling the touchscreen even when the car’s moving, and even adding CarPlay to a car that didn’t support it was just a matter of a USB stick that tweaked all those things.
Yes there is a lot of safeguards, like safeguards so people wouldnt steal cars, but guess what, cars get stolen. Plus its easier to turn on functions that you want than steal a car, for audi MLB platform just reflash the MMI to an older version, unlock the hidden menu and turn on all the stuff you need. For this new audi I give half a year and there will be a version to unlcok everything like every year for the pas 20 years.
Or don’t buy it and support the brand?
Every shred of evidence is that enough idiots will buy it and it won’t really matter. Then they’ll all do it.
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen.
And then Audi gets the government to prosecute you for
exercising your property rights“violating the DMCA by circumventing DRM.”The concept here is “ownership for me, serfdom for thee.”
Nope, they have no power to do this, than they would prosecute the people who create tools to do diagnostics, add keys, program modules. They have zero ground on this.
I guess you’ve been living under a rock and haven’t noticed the persecutions of folks making video game console modchips, John Deere fighting with farmers over who’s allowed to repair tractors (including an MOU that the media claims is “kind of” a win for famers, but nevertheless asserts that “modification of Embedded Software” is “illegal infringement” of John Deere’s intellectual property [sic]), etc.
Sure, nobody’s gone to prison for “jailbreaking” (which is already an absurdity that should never have become necessary in the first place) a car yet, but the DMCA Anti-Circumvention Clause is still the law of the land and unless that changes, it’s only a matter of time.
Can I still buy a dongle and Bluetooth into it and subscribe myself for free?
Hard pass. I’m not going to own a car that spies on me or requires a subscription for something that’s already in the fucking car. Eat shit.
Wonder how much that ends up costing per month and how much that ends up costing over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Assuming the lifetime even matters when they decide to just cut off subscriptions at some point in the future to turn features off to drive you towards buying a new vehicle and dumping this one like a good consumer.
I wonder then the jailbreaking will start and how many fatal accidents it will cause.
