Over the years, I’ve seen many folk talking about their relationship with femininity and how it relates to their transition and to their sense of identity, of who they are.
I’ve never understood it though. I don’t feel like I have a relationship with femininity, or at least, nothing beyond pragmatic necessity. It doesn’t relate to my sense of identity or who I am. In many ways, it feels like an obligation, rather than a source of empowerment or self understanding.
So, I’m curious how it works for other folk who find empowerment in it. What does it mean to you? How did it help you find yourself? How do you relate to femininity now vs earlier in your life?
Edit - To add some context. I’m 7 years transitioned, and “post transition” for want of a better term. I’m quite comfortable with my own relationship (or lack of it) with femininity. This is more an exercise in trying to understand different perspectives :)
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To me, it’s feeling assured in myself and my ability to enrich the lives of people I love. It’s practicing self care and building self-confidence. It’s being there for my friends when they need me. It’s feeling connected to my womanhood, to my inner sense of self and my feelings. It’s feeling confident and powerful.
I used to feel very ashamed of my own femininity. My experience with masculinity was fragmented, disconnected from my inner sense of self. I felt cut off from who I actually was, so it failed to resonate with my identity. I felt feminine when I could express my femininity without facing judgment or bullying. When I could smile extra wide and wear girly clothes. In middle school, I felt feminine when my friends would take me shopping behind my mom’s back to buy clothes. When they’d help me do makeup. When strangers would gender me as a girl, which they often did at that time of my life.
The femininity I felt when I was younger had a lot more to do with what I was actively being denied. It was all the things forbidden from me. It helped me understand my gender identity. And I would say early on in transition, my femininity was still rooted in those forbidden things and reclaiming them for myself. 8 years 10 months in though and femininity has changed a lot for me. It’s less rooted in specific individual things and more rooted in myself. It’s rooted in doing things that make me feel happy and self-confident.
Honestly, I don’t really have any way to describe it. Sometimes that feeling just hits and I feel particularly effeminate. Most other times I’m just kinda existing, not feeling any particular way.
Masculinity and femininity aren’t at all necessary for gender identity, though. There’s plenty of masculine women and feminine men, and all manners of those in-between and outside.
All that matters is how you feel comfortable identifying and expressing yourself. Do what you want, dress how you want, act how you want. Gender is just a label, don’t overthink it.
You do you
I transitioned 7 years ago, and these days I’m “post transition” for want of a better term. I’m ok with doing me. But I’d like to understand different perspectives too :)
Oh shit, ada
Idk how I didn’t recognize it was you earlier, lmao
Sorry, I forgot to disengage ninja mode :P
I think older trans women (as in those who transitioned over 40 and over rather than those who transitioned in teens/20s and got old later) had to deal with the brunt of completely untreated and possibly completely misunderstood/unknown dysphoria for a lot longer, they likely have a pretty complex relationship to it that forms a large part of their identity, especially through any and all coping mechanisms (maybe wanting long hair, cross dressing, etc.) and the shame and possibly social punishment that comes with that, especially in their babytrans phase.
For me it’s meh, I don’t even remember any other way anymore and I’m a pretty late transitioner by today’s standards in my late teens, I don’t really understand gender, feminine things used to freak me out as a kid, I primarily experience sex dysphoria, I present andro most days.
I think older trans women (as in those who transitioned over 40
That’s me! :)
If I don’t talk about physicals norms (nails, curls, hair). I would say I’m listening more my feelings. I’m interacting with my feelings.
I’m true with my self , or I try. Sometimes when I’m alone I became eggs again sometimes…
I’m more open minded, listening more,
Sorry if I didn’t understood the meaning and I’m not in the subject, in case I didn’t understand lol
I feel more feminine when I can express myself openly and freely. When I can choose to dress in clothing I feel that not only looks better on my body, but also emphasizes my comfort over all. When I can choose to put on makeup and nail polish to not only enhance my own ‘confidence in’ and ‘appreciation of’ myself, but put other people at ease, look nice and put-together, and express myself in quiet ways with how I decorate my body that allow me to show my creativity, spirit and personality.
I feel more feminine when I can connect with people and help them feel better, do better and live better. When I can express my love freely and openly and not be derided as seeking sex or pleasure for the immediate moment. When I can explore my social relationships with people and develop and grow them to their maximums without being accused of ill intent, or agenda.
Undoubtedly there are deeper depths of femininity I have yet to explore; and I look forward to doing so, to surrendering myself to femininity as much as I feel I can as I transition and become what I should always have been.
What you’ve said in your second paragraph resonates so much with me and has helped reaffirm that I’m on the right path. Thank you.
This is such a complicated question I feel you may as well have asked ‘What makes a woman/man’.
I guess, to me - femininity means being allowed access to my own vulnerability, to be allowed (or to be expected societally) to emphasize appearance, to be expected to appear frail or to take up little space.
However I also understand that these things are more or less just bullshit societal expectations, and that feminine women and feminine people in general are allowed to be loud, brash, messy, and strong individuals.
But to me femininity is the performance I feel pressured to act out in order to be seen the way I want to be seen. Maybe in the future my perspective will change, but at this moment I personally do not feel ‘allowed’ to be my rightful gender unless I perform the way I’m expected to perform.
This is a well thought-out reply!
I feel you may as well have asked ‘What makes a woman/man’.
What’s interesting, is that I could answer that question more readily than the question about femininity.
And what’s even more interesting is that even though they’re both largely social constructs, womanhood has a deep personal meaning to me that femininity never did. I felt denied recognition of my gender, of my womanhood, and I fought both to accept it within myself, and to have others see and accept it.
But there was no analogous experience with femininity for me.
Like you say though, I do understand the performative aspect of femininity. I don’t feel constrained by that anymore, but for a long time, that was my only relationship with it. I found it to be constraining and negative though, which is so very different to most folks relationship with it
You know, I do agree with you for the most part.
Man and woman as concepts feel more or less tangible albeit complex. They’re something I can point to and say, “this is man” or “this is woman.” Whereas femininity and even masculinity feel incorporeal to me to an extent. Certain things are deemed feminine and masculine, yes, but the criteria are ever-changing and being molded to fit a time or place or idea.
I can sorta envision this idea of womanhood for myself, whereas femininity feels like… much more of a vibe? i guess?
What a complicated question! I don’t think we can really say that femininity (or masculinity) are needed to belong to any gender. And it is really hard to entangle all the social constructs that make us believe of femininity as something essential, as something inherently gendered. So I guess most of the time when people are talking about their own femininity, they mean how they feel at home in certain social roles or identities. But of course cis women also don’t need any femininity to be women, nor do they need to behave a certain way. It is just that identity is based on how you view yourself in relation to how other people see you. That’s why we often need to make use of these social constructs to make us feel more fitting to a certain role. Even if most strangers misgender me, I can still feel feminine and thus save my womanhood from their invalidation.
Another interesting point surely is that most transfeminine people were raised at least partly as boys. And the society constantly trying to eradicate every bit of feminine behaviour or wishes leaves a lot of transfeminine people with an open wound. I mean, even cis guys obviously suffer from this a lot because they lack the ability to connect to their own emotions or be emotionally close to others. This is a weird place for a transfeminine person to be in because you feel your own femininity but it also has been rejected, forbidden and sanctioned all of your life. This certainly needs some time to heal and I can relate to needing to reconnect with my own femininity.
because you feel your own femininity
That right there is the what I’m trying to get to the bottom of. So many of us talk about feeling/connecting with their femininity, etc, just like you did there, stating it an almost matter of fact way. But that’s the bit I don’t get. I’ve never felt femininity (or masculinity). I don’t feel like I was denied it, because I never experienced it to even understand the concept of desiring it.
And that’s the core of what I’m trying to explore. What is buried in that sentence? What does “feeling your own femininity” mean to you?
Love this conversation. And I also think it’s totally a tricky one.
To me - like flora_explora, ‘feeling my own feminity’ is reclaiming feelings and aspects of myself that I felt denied, that wouldn’t match my ascribed gender.
So maybe that really is the reason, why this phrase does not resonate with you. Nowadays I also perosnally do not think of myself as feminine or masculine and only use those descriptions when I am describing myself to others who do not know me as a shorthand not because I personally ascribe to them. So I haven’t thought much about reclaiming feminity or masculinity in a while
Well, I tried to explain it via identity before i.e. feeling feminine for being externally seen as a woman or seeing myself as a woman. That’s why it is tied a lot to gender euphoria for me. But as I tried to say in my last comment, the specific trait in which I may feel feminine is arbitrarily set by societal constructs. Feeling feminine means attaining a certain identity of womanhood or femininity and thus being confirmed in my own gender identity. To give some examples when I feel feminine: having smooth skin, having a curvy body, being caring, being empathetic, looking feminine. Does this help?
Kinda feel the same even if I follow some of the transfem tropes. But I think at least for me, part of the reason I find gender and feminity/masculinity is simply because my early childhood didn’t enforce those things. My mom presents in a masculine way and didn’t care if we behaved in ways not conforming to gender norms at home. If someone wanted to wear a pink one piece bathing suit, it didn’t matter if they were a boy or a girl.
Even now, the ones who tell me I should trim my nails are the women in my family, whom keep their nails short. Of course the rest of society was not as open to such behavior and I learned subconsciously to mask a lot.
Also disclaimer I don’t consider myself a woman and am pre-transition (partly because uncertainty about what I want, partly because fear of treatment by others).
Have you read Whipping Girl?
Julia Serano goes over the idea and concept of femininity as it relates to ones gender identity quite a bit in the second part - “Trans women, Femininity, and feminism” starting with chapter 10.
I have, but that was years ago, when I was early in my transition. I probably should give it another read
She just released a new edition this month, coincidentally.
I saw that! It’s probably a good time to buy another copy to read then I guess :)
I suppose this question is basically, “what are my goals?” I consider myself fairly feminine in mind, but I lament how unfeminine I am in body. In mind, I am emotional and empathic. I deeply care about other people and their feelings and I feel a lot, but I find myself unable to express it without inebriants.
What’s feminine to me is the ability to be emotionally available, freely expressive, caring, and nurturing. I don’t want to be tough and stoic. I don’t want to be strong and unwavering. I want to be flowing and expressive. I don’t want to uphold masculine expectations because emotionally, I feel trapped inside my own head. The main issue is that I don’t yet hold the keys to the cell. I wear a mask whether I want to or not and I live inside my own head.
As for expression, I want to be small, graceful, and delicate. I want my body to flow in movement and shape just as I want my emotions and mannerisms to flow from within me. I want my wardrobe to be complex and for my outfits to match my internal state. My current wardrobe is so boring: it’s just the same cuts of shirts and pants and I’ll only ever find more of the same off the rack at the department store. It should be vibrant and varied. Without going into detail, there are a few pain points on my body that need to be addressed. I guess it’s a roundabout way to say that I want the outside to match the inside.
I also want to be allowed to feel vulnerable and for that to be acceptable. I’m not good at being a man because… I’m not. And I shouldn’t be expected to be if I don’t want to. Nobody would expect me to be a carpenter just because I own a hammer, so why should this be different? I hope that answers your question. My neurospicy brain likes to tangent and ramble a bit.
This. Everything you wrote is how I feel about it. Thank you for writing this
The easiest answer would be “being like other women” but I don’t want to do that, so idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m still kinda early on, but I suspect I’ll take the route of not caring.
I believe femininity and masculinity are more of personality categories than anything else. Both having a beautiful bits and ugly bits, in femininity the beautiful is a purpensety (idk how to spell that) to care for others in a personal sense (ie caring and nurturing) whereas the positive aspect of masculinity is an inclination towards more material caring (ie protection and providing). The dark sides are related to the positive, with femininity struggling against an inclination to be emotionally manipulative while masculinity struggles to not be physically abuse and physicalyl and emotionally abandoning.
I believe it is important that an individual male female or individual somewhere in the middle determine what they are inclination is towards and focus on improving their positive impact on others and decreasing their negative impact
Also huge disclaimer the traits described are generalizations and do not apply to everyone
Also also, societal rules on femininity or masculinity are really stupid and arbitrary
I love this thread - so many thoughtful people here. This is something I’ve been thinking about quite a bit recently - really just starting to question all of the assumptions I’ve been making my whole life about how one should think about the world, and how one should be.
I’m enjoying allowing myself to be vulnerable. I’m enjoying being able to be deliberate about my identity and how I project myself on the world, and to use that to care for and help others. I’m also enjoying feeling that it’s legitimate for me to care for, be compassionate towards and love myself.
Listen I transitioned because I hated not having tits and because having a penis felt wrong.
I’ve found myself getting more feminine as I get older though. I rejected it a lot when I was younger (been transitioning as long as you actually and am also post transition). I still have my firm feminist stances like I won’t ever wear makeup to work, but I wear it going out now, just not because I feel I have to but because I do like the self expression with it. I’ve found that I feel most myself when I embrace being a large badass femme. And it’s when I feel most confident. And I think part of why I feel this way is because I’ve always rejected letting it be forced on me and because I’ve always found femininity to be beautiful and powerful looking. I also think that starting transition at 20 and being heavily involved in lesbian communities influenced it. My conversation with femininity in myself has always been spoken through my lesbian identity just as much as my trans identity.
I’ve only just recently begun exploring my gender identity. This is all very new for me, and very raw.
Gender is subjective. Defining it is like trying to nail jello to a wall. I cannot think of a single description that is exclusively feminine. When I imagine myself as a woman, I see myself in a new light, through a new lens. It feels like home. Gender is a construct, but that’s not to say it’s meaningless – marriage is a construct, too. If it truly is possible to redefine gender as anything you want, then why do I want so very badly to be a woman and not a man?
I never realized how much I despised my body hair until the first time I removed it. The first time my spouse called me “beautiful,” I cried, because until that moment I did not realize how many decades I’d been waiting to hear it. Gender is expressive. It’s how I see myself, but also how others see me. The desire to express is the desire to be known; I want people to know that I am gentle and nurturing, fragile yet strong, irrational yet relatable in my strangeness.
But I could be wrong about this, every single word of it, and it wouldn’t make any difference. Because I started down this path by deciding to want what I wanted, to feel what I felt, to act without trying to justify my actions to some invisible judge. And when I wear a cute outfit and see myself in the mirror, I smile. When my spouse calls me “wife,” I blush. When I think of femininity, I think of reinventing myself. To me, femininity is daring to live a life I have dreamed for myself. It is not troubling my spirit to vindicate itself or be understood.
Gender is nothing. But it’s also everything.
So much of your post is reflective of my own experiences with gender!
