I’m an immigrant working in the USA, I came here because of the promise of a better tomorrow, a meritocracy, a seat at the table at big tech, and for a while it felt real but then my company was acquired by a larger entity and it all went to shit, now I’m in a race to show I’m the most competent and dedicated person with the most technological knowledge to keep my job and not get layed off.
If I ask my manager or my director a question or challenge their thought process I get called into a 1 on 1 meeting where I’m told I’m a great asset to the team but me asking questions of them in a team setting sets a bad example, and my questions aren’t in bad faith infact in the meeting I was lauded for asking the right questions, but being pulled aside and being asked to kiss the ring felt disgusting.
At one point in my career I cared about what I did and who I worked for I felt pride over my product and my team, and all I feel now is shame to be associated with my company, I feel disgusted with myself that I work not for my customers but for shareholder value.
So I guess my question if any is are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they’re doing and not just inflate that companies value so it can be sold or keep the stock price going up.
I would love to live and work somewhere where my value isn’t determined by how much money I van make or how much shareholder value I increase, I wouldn’t have to worry about a visa and if I can/will be kicked out if I’m no longer employed.
I could go back home but the work culture there is atrocious it was the reason why I had left, I lasted 5 months and I couldn’t take it and put in my 2 weeks to go to the US for a Masters degree in Computer Sciences.
I’m sorry that this turned into more of a rant than anything else but I’m at a point where I don’t really know what I want to do anymore, any advice or conversation is appreciated.
I hope you find your way to a civilized country.
Yes. Check nonprofits.
IDK if this would be viable with an H1 visa and I’ve seen many other options I’ll be looking into, but here’s what I normally tell people in this position: small businesses are built different
They’re harder to find, they usually don’t pay amazingly, but they’re way more human. It’s not all run through spread sheets, you work for humans who get to know you and (can sometimes) actually be like a family…(If they say that phrase it’s a red flag though)
It’s hit or miss, you likely would be working on legacy stuff or have to wear many hats… But it’s work where you know what you’re doing and who you’re doing it for
It really depends on the business.
I worked for two smaller businesses (team of ≤ 10 software developers). One was mismanaged, ran by very unpleasant people, and abusive towards employees, resulting in a huge turnover and a “dead sea effect”. The other company got government grants because the owner’s relative was a politician, and had ridiculous surveillance software on developers’ machines.
Ironically, the most “human” and enjoyable work I did was working on internal legacy software and code rewrites for a huge corporation before and during their move towards agile and modern “conveyorized” approach to software.
Yep I used to work for a far better environment before the acquisition and would love to ho back to that kind of company, but it’s increasingly difficult to do now a days.
Yep… My first “career” job was for a mid sized company. In my onboarding they gave me my employee number but said “you’ll never need this, here you’re a name, not a number”. One time I emailed security saying I forgot my badge because it was with my lunch, and one of the founders called me up and gave me his prepackaged lunch because he said he usually doesn’t get through them all. When we closed a big deal, they called us all upstairs to have champagne during the workday. Our mission was unambiguously to help people
Then we got acquired… They gave me my new employee ID and told me I’d be using it for everything. They just milked our contracts and refused wages until we all left
And unfortunately, mid sized companies can give an equally good experience with much better pay and job security… But they’re being bought out to secure contracts and gutted at an insane rate.
It’s late stage capitalism… If you want to keep growing but you’ve already destroyed your ability to complete, buy them out to take over their contracts
If I ask my manager or my director a question or challenge their thought process I get called into a 1 on 1 meeting where I’m told I’m a great asset to the team but me asking questions of them in a team setting sets a bad example
This isn’t on you. If you manager’s skin is so thin that they can’t take some critical thinking thrown at them, then they shouldn’t be a manager. Though if you’re doing it all the time it’s probably very annoying. If they’re doing some self-destructive braindead company decisions, then just roll your eyes and don’t say anything while waiting for their comeuppance to bite them in the ass. You don’t have to kiss the ring but you don’t have to be a nuisance either.
So I guess my question if any is are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they’re doing and not just inflate that companies value so it can be sold or keep the stock price going up.
Maybe a small business with decent core values. They are very rare though, and are liable to be eaten alive by a change in management. So basically no.
One answer to capitalist companies seeking to maximize profit at all costs are worker owned companies. When the workers are in control of the business decisions, they won’t vote for the decisions going against themselves.
Sadly, I don’t know that many worked owned tech companies. One example is https://www.igalia.com/
If more people would be willing to start work owned companies rather than your typical capitalist startup, we could have more options.
Valve
https://tech-coops.xyz/ seems to have a list of companies.
Thanks!! I didn’t know of this resource will check it out.
Traditionally, there have been a few classes of companies in the U.S: C Corp, S Corp, LLC (Limited Liability Company) aka partnerships, and Closed. Most companies in the U.S. are organized as one of these, with their responsibility toward shareholders, who want to see their money grow.
If you wanted to work for a company that didn’t necessarily have infinite growth as its mission, the only option was to find a Non-Profit, but they may not have the kind of funding to spend on legal visas.
In the last few years, two other types of companies have emerged. They’re similar, but legally different: B-corp (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_Corporation_(certification)), and PBC or Public Benefit Corporation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation).
These can be for-profit, but have to have a stated mission in their charter to provide a benefit of some sort to the public.
The links above point at some examples, but you may want to do your own research. Those companies may have the resources to pick up your visa, and may better align with the values you’re looking for.
Ideally, and when able, your best bet would be to start your own business and set it up just the way you want.
At one point in my career I cared about what I did and who I worked for I felt pride over my product and my team, and all I feel now is shame to be associated with my company, I feel disgusted with myself that I work not for my customers but for shareholder value.
This tracks with my experience here as well.
keep my job and not get layed off.
For me, it seems like falling in line and kissing the ring is more important than showing ability, if you want to avoid being laid off. At a previous job, I got laid off before my very noob coworker who took months to complete PRs because I wouldn’t shut my mouth about RTO.
a meritocracy
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 Never has been.
People still falling for that meritocracy stuff lol
Yea after working in the USA I was disillusioned fairly quickly when I was stepped over for promotions by people that knew somebody who knows somebody.
It’s all about who you know and how you know them.
Yep that’s my understanding as well, fall in line or you’re out.
I’ve never worked for a for-profit company since I graduated college. There is variation in non-profit employers, but there are some that are great places to work.
I got a job at a university after graduation (different university than where I got my degree), and I worked there in different departments until I took a job in the university hospital. I’ve worked here for more than 25 years.
The pay tends to be a bit lower than what you’d get at a for-profit company, but not as bad as some would lead you to believe. I’ve been able to buy a home, raise a family, and live fairly comfortably.
The benefits are very good. There’s a strong focus on education and growth, and work-life balance isn’t just a lie they tell people in the interview.
No, there are not. Form a union, get contractually obligated dignity and respect.
I don’t think/know of a software engineers union and wouldn’t k ow where to start, also as mentioned I’m on visa not sure if that affects anything.
I don’t think/know of a software union
CWA and IATSE are both in the tech industry, CWA represents over 2000 employees in Microsoft alone.
wouldn’t know where to start
CWA offers training!
I’m on visa
Labor law protects everyone in the US, not just citizens, but I will be honest and say that risks to you are higher than normal. Aggressive union busting is a risk every organizer has to take, but just remember that Mother Jones, and several union heroes, were immigrants too in an even more hostile environment.
Thank you!!! bookmarking for future references.
There are non profits, that is about it for this capitalistic hell scape. You do not need to volunteer at them, plenty have actual jobs. They can’t pay market rate, but more of a non profit rate, but it’s not bad
Yep I shall look into non profits and try my luck to see if I can land a job there.
By definition, no. You can volunteer for a non profit, like the Linux foundation, but you won’t make much money.
Right, and in that case it would be best for me to move back home but the situation back home is quite dire, I have pressures from my parents to get married I’m 33 M from India and I’m hurdling towards my expiration date as it were in society, and the general situation in India insnt that great with religion and sex being the biggest points politicians exploit for a vote bank.
Are you an H1b worker? Yeah, you were most likely brought over because you’re easier to underpay and abuse. I’m sorry if that’s the case.
Yep I’m on h1b.
Yeah. I have a very strong suspicion that you were brought in to be cheap abusable labor. It sucks but that’s the point of the program.
Yep exactly, and now the industry is moving back to the 2008 model of offshore devs again, as were deemed too expensive even for the exploitative rate I get.
Government services aren’t company, and some do develop technology, place like US national institute of Health, or US NASA, or US department of Energy come to my mind, but any first world nation would have tons of similar things. As usual doesn’t mean there is no bullshit to deal with (You know the saying about reserarcher main job is to look for fundings)
Then there is FOSS sofware some of them being managed by non profit who can afford to pay their developers
finally, there is a whole non profit/charity/coop part of the economy, and considering the weigh of technology, you may have some jobs linked to technology. (But managing let’s say the “red cross ERP” sounds as awful as managing any other corporate ERP)
Thanks for your reply, but I’m on visa not even green card and as such can’t work for the government right now as they require you to either be a citizen or a green card holder with certain government clearances.
I recognize that this is a very different angle but there is a global trend for free open source software which are non profit by design.
Of course this basically means you need to be a developer and than there is still the question about how to survive within economic society.
I doubt you want to live from donations coming from where you are now.
The sweet spot, which might be viable for you is an open source devision within a for profit company. Many industries have started to understand the massive value of open source software and standards. Companies like redhat build open source tools on one side but then sell industry tailored packages and support to enterprises for profit. Even Nvidia has started to open source some level of their drivers because they realized that enthusiast will often improve on those for zero costs.
I imagine in some of those divisions its just like a normal company with not just devs but all kinda of roles your direct product will be used by the for profit stuff but also be free for everyone else out there that might need it.
Also hardware
Open-source hardware is almost non-existant compared to software. There is a reason for it.
I am an electronics engineer who makes open source hardware as a hobby.
Hardware is extremely different from software. It requires substantial monetary investment.
My company last year did a dirt-cheap lowest-possible-budget prototype design and run of 10 for someone funding themselves independently. It cost 8000€ for the design and that one prototype run, and an extremely simple design at that (electronically, medical-spec mechanically).
Software you buy a system and you can develop and develop and iterate and test 1000 times and develop multiple projects on that single machine. If you sell 0 units, sure you are out a computer and a ton of personal time. Sucks, but you won’t lose your house.
If you do electronics + mechanical development, every time you iterate on the electronics, that will be 200€-1000€ please, plus test equipment. If you make a small mistake equivalent to a wrong pointer that is another 1000 down the drain.
Hardware projects, pure material-wise, can cost more than a car to develop (just going through CE and FCC compliance testing can be 2k-10k and you aren’t allowed to sell in the EU without it.
You need capital to burn or be OK with a non-market-ready end product. Most people would rather make a down payment on a house than develop open hardware that might never recoup just the material costs. You can’t just give the hardware away for free unlike software also.
Thanks so much for your reply, sorry for the delay I got distracted and was watching a yms video, the issue is the visa a lot of places I would love to apply yo but th3y can’t/won’t sponsor a visa.
Though a non profit does sound like a better option for me I will try and look into open positions that would sponsor a visa.
but being pulled aside and being asked to kiss the ring felt disgusting.
You are absolutely right here. It is a very shitty boss. They can happen everywhere, but still not all are like that one.
I am an expert in my field, too, and I would have my way of withstanding such a guy. Not sure, however, if it is possible in Usa. I am in Germany.
are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they’re doing and not just inflate that companies value
There are. At least here. The work culture is much better in general, because such single specimen of asshole bosses are not that powerful here. Firing somebody is a regulated process, and things can be reviewed later by independent people, in the company or in court.
As long as companies are not that huge, they usually care better about what they are doing.
I was looking into immigrating to Germany but the thing that a few people told me and caused me hesitation was the 55%(?) taxation rate that seemed high, and the language barrier I remembered back when I was in undergrad that Germany required you to learn the language and I found that intimidation at the time.
55%(?) taxation rate
Not true. But the real rates are quite complicated. Do not believe any simple statements to this :)
Germany required you to learn the language
All countries require that, unless you don’t want to really live.
Yep, high taxation rate is a concern but not more than my sanity. And yea English came naturally and lucratively US seemed the best option in my 20s, harder to pick up a language I was never exposed to will be a challenge but should be doable I think.
Taxes are high in Germany, but then again you also don’t pay for health insurance and get good public transportation. The calculation will probably turn out better than you’d expect, though nowhere will be quite as lucrative as America for tech.
That makes sense I think I’ll try and take a look at Europe again but I am also intimidated by my age I’m 33 and another uproot and resettlement seems very scary.
I’ll be honest: If you’re not white you’ll probably want/have to get out of the US anyway. Might as well bite the bullet now.
Yep agreed, I am brown and exiting the US seems the best route.
To improve your work conditions you have to demand it for yourself. As long as workers allow it to happen, their bosses will do everything to increase profits on the expense of the workers. Unionising your workplace is the only secure way to gain back your power.
While I agree with you, I can’t really do that as any form of push back could eventually lead to.my dismissal, I’m on visa and as such I’m very expendable there’s thousands to take my place if I slip up.
Do you have coworkers with the same complaints and risks? I understand that it’s risky but I also don’t think there’s an alternative option as all companies eventually will use the same exploitative practices.
