All y’all’s gold mines, they wanna deplete you.
A clever trick to quell the poor’s thirst for equal rights
It doesn’t quell it. It redirects it. All of the negativity and animosity still exist in the world, but now it’s aimed at the wrong target.
but now it’s aimed at the wrong target.
this is such a classic move that I’m amazed we still fall for it in current_year
“They got you fighting a culture war to stop you fighting a class war”
When you’re a trans teen from OK getting beaten to death by classmates, the culture war feels a lot more urgent to focus on in the moment. Survival isn’t something you can be passive about.
Some people partake in the culture war as part of manipulation by the rich… Some people are forced into it by defending themselves from the first group. And some people are compelled into it to protect the second group.
While you’re not wrong about how we got here, it feels like it would be too easy for one side of the culture war to spin this as “Ignore my bigotry, Wall St is the real enemy!”
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Political parties are part of the culture war too. The rich don’t fit into a party. They like right wing economics because it keeps them rich, sure, but they push left wing culture because it gets people off their backs. As a whole, they play the two parties against each other, and we probably won’t be able to stop that unless we can get more parties into the running.
Political hatred - probably the most prominent form of hatred in the US - is driven by the dichotomy, the “you’re either with me or against me” that’s made so convenient by the fact that everyone has to fit into one of two buckets anyways. Throw more parties into the mix, and it’s harder to make that distinction because any given party works with you sometimes and against you at other times, and if you label them all as enemies, you’re going up against the majority of the country.
It’s easier said than done, though. Duverger’s law states that the maximum number of viable political parties is the number of seats in a given election + 1. So we can’t just will another political party into viability without booting out one that we already have. We have to change the voting structure. Proportional representation in congressional elections sounds good, and with fewer voting districts, it’s also harder to gerrymander. But that’s gonna be hard to push for.
Once we can accomplish that, the hatred will slowly subside (but not entirely,) and people will be able to see more clearly to deal with the class struggle. Plus, with more parties, we might even be able to vote in candidates who support the actual economic changes we want instead of just paying lip service to the lower classes.
Europeans think racism is stupid, but then bring out the hitler energy for Romani.
People can talk about more than one issue at the same time y’all
Right? Specially when those minorities have been abused into one of the low social classes.
These are two related issues.
As long as each issue gets enough societal focus that shit gets done I’m fine with that. I see class warfare as the “turn it off and on again” approach which should be tried first, while culture wars is the deep dive into Google on all the issues we don’t have in common
I don’t see how on earth you think overthrowing the government should be done quicker than correcting someone’s use of pronouns.
Occupy scared the shit out of bankers. It’s no mistake that pop culture became obsessed with divisive issues immediately afterwards.
Gr8 b8 m8
Nobody is free until everyone is free
- Thanos
Entropy take me please.
It’s not about the gays vs straights or blacks vs whites or the Romulans vs The Federation. It’s about the billionaires vs everybody else. It’s a class war. It aways has been. And life is never going to improve for most of us until we figure out where the REAL source of our pain comes from. Like George Carlin once said:
“That’s the way the ruling class works in any society. They keep the lower and middle classes fighting with each other so that they . . . the rich . . . can run off with all the f*cking money.”
Why do you stop at billionaires, and not include the politicians and the people that hold power?
You forgot the journalists who frame narratives and the intellectuals who secrete the ideology that makes it all possible.
Politicians are part of the state, which is shaped by the economic system which, in most of the world, is currently capitalism.
The root of the problem is class society and the capitalist system where the ruling class are the capitalists. So it doesn’t really matter who the politicians are until the economic system, and thus the ruling class, are changed, which can only happen by organizing outside the capitalist political system whose only purpose is to protect capital.
The state is part of the superstructure that is shaped by the economic base, which is in turned maintained by said superstructure. However, changes in the superstructure are never transformative unless they also come with radical change to the mode of production. Billionaires, and the capitalist class as a whole, completely block the path for the workers to seize the means and reshape society towards progress. It doesn’t matter what faffing idiot you put in power in the state, when the economic base keeps operating with the same logic of capitalist extraction.
If you think capitalism didn’t create and still heavily relies on racism, sexism, ableism, cisheteronormativity and so on (and no, comparing real life oppressed groups to fictional characters doesn’t help) to literally exist, you’ve not been paying any attention.
Fighting only a class war still leaves a white supremacist cisheteronormative ableist theistic patriarchy.
Intersectionality is the only way everyone gets justice and equity.
Last time I checked fighting class war resulted in antitheistic antimonarchistic country where supremacism and patriarchy was counter-revolutionary crime(see “Women and pro-literacy propaganda” and “Campaign for non-Russian speakers”).
Conservatives: “George Carlin is a Republican!”
Only in a social context where “liberal” just means “polite”.
And life is never going to improve for most of us until we figure out where the REAL source of our pain comes from
Yeah! Consensus reality!
I think, on average, we’re too dumb as a species to keep it in mind. I would hate to say we deserve the system we’ve got, but here we are.
You all need to read gramsci.
If you think racism is an issue of “whites vs blacks” you either have never seen racism (good for you) or never really heard the people affected.
Hegemonial culture is a thing, and it plays a major role in keeping modern systems afloat.
Can’t fight capitalism without addressing inequalities and fighting for a just society for everyone.
This is the literal concept of solidarity: also fighting for causes you are not personally affected by.
You’re so close.
Can’t fight capitalism without addressing inequalities and fighting for a just society for everyone.
So very close!
Because you think we end capitalism an poof, all other problems are gone?
Sure, can’t overcome e.g. racism without overcoming capitalism, but also can’t really have a better society without addressing the discrimination in the system.
If some other working class member tells you about the discrimination he receives, and you make the face in the meme, you’re helping capitalists by splitting the working class.
The fights are interwoven guys, can’t do “this first” or “that first”
You need to address the problems (yes that means also cultural ones) and stand together in solidarity to have a chance of building a better system.
Splitting the working class by making this face when people talk about how they are discriminated just because your not affected is only helping capitalists
Class inequality is not the same thing as anti capitalism. I like capitalism. I see it as a vehicle for those who contribute being rewarded.
We have classist structures outside of more things than business. Politics is the big one, but it’s nowhere near the only one. I’m for tearing down those who get power without needing to demonstrate the skill needed to wield it. Those that are given it either through nepotism or cronyism.
I truly believe that the system doesn’t care about race or gender or whatever. It cares about looking after it’s friends. If you’re not in the club you’re trodden underfoot. So pitting black against white and man against woman is a distraction. We all need to be fighting together against the “landed gentry”.
Intersectionality is a thing.
I’m not sure where you’re coming from?
I disagree. We all enjoyed WandaVision.
I didn’t
Well then… CLASS WAR!!!
Real easy to dismiss “culture war” issues when you’re not on the receiving end of them. Race, gender, religious prejudices predate capitalism and will likely be with us long after it’s gone.
Race, gender, religious prejudices
All secondary contradictions as consequences of class society, which is currently capitalism; it being feudalism in most of the world before than instead of capitalism doesn’t change that it’s still class society. Tackling the symptoms alone won’t solve the core issue.
Racial, gender, queer emancipation are all part of proletariat emancipation. It’s not an either-or.
The man’s talking about class differences in general though. Pretty sure those predate us apes even knowing there were other different colored troops.
Either way it kind of feels like a bit of a chicken and egg discussion. Were we hierarchical animals first, then leveraged arbitrary and irrelevant traits to enforce that hierarchy, or vice versa.
To me it’s really simple. You adress class issues -> you adress “culture war” issues (those disproportionally impacted get disproportionately addressed, as they should be). You address “culture war” issues -> shitshow ensues.
I know what I’m gonna focus on.
The city where I grew up in England is over one quarter South Asian. There was friction between the “sides”, but what few noticed was that actually no-one was doing very well. The city had been abandoned by the government long ago.
Bradford?
Fuck that’s good!
Everytime
Not a word.
When hes a white male and doesnt understand the repression he faces isn’t the only important.
For real though, repressing minorities is a tool which at the moment capitalists use to get days of unemployed, wage slaves or to split the working class. By fighting the capitalists you can help minorities, but you dont nessescarily do so.
It’s important to remember, that discrimination predates capitalism and won’t automatically perish by fighting the class war but by fighting it in solidarity and activley addressing all kinds of unfair and unethical behaviour together.
If you make that face when a women talks about being denied an abortion or a subaltern not able to participate in discourse, you haven’t understood solidarity and won’t get very far.
I mostly think one facilitates the other. Helping the poor helps in the sens they can then fight discrimination more effectively.
And that’s why we could think we should start by solving the more recent problem of classes first.
To be honest the lines between the two fights probably blurs to thoses who wants both because they value equality first right?
But it’s also true that it doesn’t apply that well to everything completely. Abortion is indeed a very good example.
I also was on this track for a while, but the more you actually take part in the movements, the more you see realistic opportunities, the more you understand how damn interwoven all these issues are.
Its not about “this first” or “that first” its about working towards a better world TOGETHER AND IN SOLIDARITY.
Its not even that you should overcome one or the other first, its that its onlz possible to address one issue by also addressing the other. We can’t have a (real and good) socialist society without overcoming racism, sexism etc, and we can’t (really) overcome racism sexism etc without overcoming capitalism.
Realising this means fighting together on solidarity, not downplaying the discrimination others must live through.
I do agree on your emphasis on solidarity, but in a different way.
I think we see this interweaving especially in movements and realistic actions. Because people have values that connect the two together, as well as connecting us. Solidarity is such a value, as well as equality.
But, technically i think the world isn’t very restrictive on what ideas can work together. Technically we can have socialism with racism or sexism, it’s just a less common point of view in our cultures. And same for a capitalism that’s not discriminatory, that’s might be harder to achieve but it’s a real stance, based on other values…
I think the main problem for leftist in general is that we must also learn to accept some differences in our point of views. Even being able to fight with people that doesn’t share said values.
That’s the solidarity we lack the most, with differences regarding our opinions.
I think that’s what get rid of this what’s “first” idea, as well as having multiple fights, all more powerful and with less hollow debates.
Rarer and rarer are the movement that do that correctly in my opinion. We form communities based on our strong values which is great.
But capitalists or politicians thrive on this drawback of having strong values. They use it to pit us against each other. Inside the left, and also by radicalization of both left and right ideologies. Though media like internet especially.
You’re on memes nigga. Go yell at a wall or something.
