Yup. It is the same reason that I can’t stand the people who think the world is an episode of Steven Universe and that if we just show compassion toward the hate mongers that they will change their hearts.
Be good to one another. But also understand that there ARE bad people out there and that they deserve nothing but weary scorn.
Protest day is the 5th at noon in your local downtown or better at your state capital building. Unfortunately it’s in the middle of a capitalist drone’s work day and I just found out today so I think it’s going to be a fail. Don’t let that stop you.
If we tell everyone that people are using X scam to get rich, then how many NEW assholes are convinced they could probably pull it off? Then Those guys come up with new schemes that we announce to everybody, which causes more people to think they should take up scamming.
The point is more why are we treating the symptom rather than the disease. People who take advantage of others are manipulators and by definition that’s anti-social. Why is the system so broken that we can’t imprison scammers?
The point is more why are we treating the symptom rather than the disease.
Hell yeah, great point
People who take advantage of others are manipulators and by definition that’s anti-social. Why is the system so broken that we can’t imprison scammers?
What the fuck, how is that your conclusion?
The “disease” is the lack of safety nets- a lack of education, resources, opportunities. “Anti-social” is a copout term to justify the status quo- to pathologize what are ultimately systemic failures manifested in the behavior of individuals. The disease is capitalism, and imprisoning people for “anti-social” behaviors is absolutely the wrong answer.
I’m going to have to assume TherapyGary does not stem from you being a mental health or psychology expert because anti-social is a defined term for people who are harmful to society, people with sociopathic tendencies like manipulation. It sounds like you think I’m saying anti-social as in they don’t like to talk to people, which is not the context of this question.
I’m not sure you understand the question if you believe that disease is something other than anti-social behaviour. The symptom is victims, the cause are the people who made them victims.
I don’t disagree that our society breeds sociopaths, but on other side of the argument is that you are a person with free will. If your teacher told you to jump off a bridge, would you? Usually not, so regardless of what you learned, it’s your decision to evaluate it and decide what is right and wrong. Which is where your diagnosis would come in, you have been wired with ASPD tendencies but are there not treatments? CBT?
I think we could go back and forth about the same point here without coming to an understanding but In the situation of society vs individuals, the individuals are the ones that came first, that developed society in the form of accepted norms. You can’t change society without changing the people first.
ASPD is far too broad to be worth treating on it’s own. If someone struggles with impulse control and emotion dysregulation, sure, those symptoms are treatable, and treating them is likely to improve the person’s quality of life.
However, most people with ASPD meet criteria because they break the law, lie about it (duh), and don’t feel bad about it (why would they if they did it on purpose?). This should not be pathologized, and doesn’t need treatment.
I don’t even believe in free will, so I expect you’re right that we won’t come to an understanding on this lol 😅
You can’t change society without changing the people first.
Being “social” often involves power dynamics games. Often that’s even part of the culture. Sometimes people who are not interested in that notice each other and proceed to their own comfy wavelength, but it’s not something I would expect in average “social group”.
“Being “social” often involves power dynamics games” when there are people who want to hoard that power. This mindset is exactly what I’m questioning, why have people accepted sociopathic behaviour
There are a lot of examples but one you see popular these days are scam coins. I can’t even begin to list how many “influencers” have made off with hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. Not only are they unapologetic about it, they laugh at their fans that donated money to them.
Well we do have laws against fraud, deceptive marketing, etc. It’s hard for me to imagine what we would be arresting someone for unless it were one of those already illegal acts.
It’s nice to say it should be illegal to take advantage of someone, but who decides if that happened, and by what criteria?
We have laws against it but they are just words on paper. I’ll give you examples then. Ice poseidon meme coin, rugpulled half a mil and admitted on live stream, nothing happened to him. Logan Paul’s Cryptozoo, raised over 18 mil and the game was never real. Faze clan and sam pepper Save the Kids token, relatively small amount of 80k but disgusting that they would use a charitable front to rob people. The list goes on. People who have straight up said on camera, they lied, they took the money, and they are not planning on giving it back. Not a day in jail, not even a trial.
So people don’t mind living in a greedy society because they are greedy? I guess the follow up question would be are the majority of people greedy and selfish with no plans to make a better future for the next generations?
There have been quite a few red flags in global news, especially recently with the pandemic chaos but even more recently, I would hope that a literal criminal being voted in for their second term would be enough of a red flag for people to realize something might be wrong with our system?
This whole question rubs me the wrong way, like “Why do we teach women to protect themselves instead of teaching men not to rape?”. There’s not a big control panel somewhere that “society” can use to change everyone’s behavior. People are individuals. Some of them will do bad things to others because it benefits them, no matter what they’re taught. If you want to avoid being victimized, you have to be vigilant against that.
You’ll notice only people who grow up in extremely safe societies complain about “teaching women to protect themselves instead of”. People that didn’t know why it’s an idiotic argument to have already.
The only people you actually end up reaching are people with good intentions who don’t need to hear it in the first place. “Stop taking advantage of people” is a message which can usually be dispensed only by force. The moral panic over “toxic masculinity” did very little to affect those who actually caused problems, but a great deal to disenfranchise those who would actually make bad actors stop taking advantage of others.
Because the people who take advantage, already know that they shouldn’t, and we aren’t going to politely convince them otherwise.
Might as well make it harder for them by warning others that they are out there.
I totally agree with the sentiment though. It’s a shame we have to, but until people can behave themselves, we need to be aware.
Yup. It is the same reason that I can’t stand the people who think the world is an episode of Steven Universe and that if we just show compassion toward the hate mongers that they will change their hearts.
Be good to one another. But also understand that there ARE bad people out there and that they deserve nothing but weary scorn.
Freaky ass weirdos need to stay they ass inside
Roll they ass up like a fresh pack of 'za
City is back up, it’s a must, we outside
Protest day is the 5th at noon in your local downtown or better at your state capital building. Unfortunately it’s in the middle of a capitalist drone’s work day and I just found out today so I think it’s going to be a fail. Don’t let that stop you.
Although, now I’m thinking…
If we tell everyone that people are using X scam to get rich, then how many NEW assholes are convinced they could probably pull it off? Then Those guys come up with new schemes that we announce to everybody, which causes more people to think they should take up scamming.
Oh dear. I need to lie down.
The point is more why are we treating the symptom rather than the disease. People who take advantage of others are manipulators and by definition that’s anti-social. Why is the system so broken that we can’t imprison scammers?
Hell yeah, great point
What the fuck, how is that your conclusion?
The “disease” is the lack of safety nets- a lack of education, resources, opportunities. “Anti-social” is a copout term to justify the status quo- to pathologize what are ultimately systemic failures manifested in the behavior of individuals. The disease is capitalism, and imprisoning people for “anti-social” behaviors is absolutely the wrong answer.
I’m going to have to assume TherapyGary does not stem from you being a mental health or psychology expert because anti-social is a defined term for people who are harmful to society, people with sociopathic tendencies like manipulation. It sounds like you think I’m saying anti-social as in they don’t like to talk to people, which is not the context of this question.
I’m not sure you understand the question if you believe that disease is something other than anti-social behaviour. The symptom is victims, the cause are the people who made them victims.
I am a therapist and I meet diagnostic criteria for ASPD.
The diagnosis itself exists to pathologize the individual to remove blame from the system that fosters this behavior.
The DSM is a joke
I don’t disagree that our society breeds sociopaths, but on other side of the argument is that you are a person with free will. If your teacher told you to jump off a bridge, would you? Usually not, so regardless of what you learned, it’s your decision to evaluate it and decide what is right and wrong. Which is where your diagnosis would come in, you have been wired with ASPD tendencies but are there not treatments? CBT?
I think we could go back and forth about the same point here without coming to an understanding but In the situation of society vs individuals, the individuals are the ones that came first, that developed society in the form of accepted norms. You can’t change society without changing the people first.
ASPD is far too broad to be worth treating on it’s own. If someone struggles with impulse control and emotion dysregulation, sure, those symptoms are treatable, and treating them is likely to improve the person’s quality of life.
However, most people with ASPD meet criteria because they break the law, lie about it (duh), and don’t feel bad about it (why would they if they did it on purpose?). This should not be pathologized, and doesn’t need treatment.
I don’t even believe in free will, so I expect you’re right that we won’t come to an understanding on this lol 😅
This is neoliberal propaganda
Being “social” often involves power dynamics games. Often that’s even part of the culture. Sometimes people who are not interested in that notice each other and proceed to their own comfy wavelength, but it’s not something I would expect in average “social group”.
“Being “social” often involves power dynamics games” when there are people who want to hoard that power. This mindset is exactly what I’m questioning, why have people accepted sociopathic behaviour
Huh? We can imprison scammers. Fraud is a punishable offense.
Is it tho? Trump basically lied and committed fraud all the way to the presidency.
There are a lot of examples but one you see popular these days are scam coins. I can’t even begin to list how many “influencers” have made off with hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. Not only are they unapologetic about it, they laugh at their fans that donated money to them.
Well we do have laws against fraud, deceptive marketing, etc. It’s hard for me to imagine what we would be arresting someone for unless it were one of those already illegal acts.
It’s nice to say it should be illegal to take advantage of someone, but who decides if that happened, and by what criteria?
We have laws against it but they are just words on paper. I’ll give you examples then. Ice poseidon meme coin, rugpulled half a mil and admitted on live stream, nothing happened to him. Logan Paul’s Cryptozoo, raised over 18 mil and the game was never real. Faze clan and sam pepper Save the Kids token, relatively small amount of 80k but disgusting that they would use a charitable front to rob people. The list goes on. People who have straight up said on camera, they lied, they took the money, and they are not planning on giving it back. Not a day in jail, not even a trial.
People are OK with a system that gives them a chance at becoming rich, and so long as they are successful doing it, it doesn’t matter how they did it.
Prosperity gospel. Money = good. By the transitive property if you get money you are doing “good”.
It’s self serving broken logic.
So people don’t mind living in a greedy society because they are greedy? I guess the follow up question would be are the majority of people greedy and selfish with no plans to make a better future for the next generations?
If the rabbit knows not of the fox, what good does the knowledge of clover do him?
There have been quite a few red flags in global news, especially recently with the pandemic chaos but even more recently, I would hope that a literal criminal being voted in for their second term would be enough of a red flag for people to realize something might be wrong with our system?
Luigi convinced one…
This whole question rubs me the wrong way, like “Why do we teach women to protect themselves instead of teaching men not to rape?”. There’s not a big control panel somewhere that “society” can use to change everyone’s behavior. People are individuals. Some of them will do bad things to others because it benefits them, no matter what they’re taught. If you want to avoid being victimized, you have to be vigilant against that.
You’ll notice only people who grow up in extremely safe societies complain about “teaching women to protect themselves instead of”. People that didn’t know why it’s an idiotic argument to have already.
We were in a pretty damn safe society until a few days ago. But yeah you’re still right.
Bingo.
The only people you actually end up reaching are people with good intentions who don’t need to hear it in the first place. “Stop taking advantage of people” is a message which can usually be dispensed only by force. The moral panic over “toxic masculinity” did very little to affect those who actually caused problems, but a great deal to disenfranchise those who would actually make bad actors stop taking advantage of others.