If supporting the art, supports the artist, who actively supports a bad cause, I do not. JKR and anything that furthers the anti-trans movement can go screw. If someone co-opts something, then it’s trickier, but I expect the original artist to help when they can and support them directly, like Marvel’s Punisher.
Fuck Joss Whedon and his misogynistic, narcissistic ego.
But I still will watch Firefly, and Avengers.
I will not, however, pay any attention any of his future work.
I attempt to.
In the era of cancel culture I feel we should still be able to still enjoy the art when it’s discovered the artist has done something awful.
Easier said than done, and some artists really double down on the cancellation, but good art is still good art.
Yes and no. The Art can be beautiful and the artist very gifted, i can recognize that part. It can also be related to their story, mood, society, environnement or not.
However, if they are shit toward human being, i boycott them just as any brand.
Harvey Weinstein made a lot of really great films happen that we would’ve probably never seen without him, while he also made a lot of nightmares come true for some women. I really hope he isn’t making any money these days off of those movies.
Producers don’t “make” anything, so I don’t think it’d be hard to separate the art from the guy in this case…
They make a profit.
Yes.
I quite enjoy the Tom Clancy books, and some of the film adaptations, but know he is right wing and it comes through in the books.
Similar to J K Rowling. Terrible person in general but the books were enjoyable when growing up.
he is right wing and it comes through in the books
I don’t think it really came off as much in his original books, or maybe I was just younger and more naive when I read them and didn’t notice. But all the new stuff written under his name is just un-fucking-bearable.
Yea the books with Jack Ryan Jr as the main character aren’t as good.
I’m very saddened she shows these strong hateful opinions now. The books and films were so much a part of my childhood and I still really enjoy the whole world they’ve created. And watching her earlier interviews, she seemed like a nice, interesting, smart, softly spoken person, with a love for my city. Also through indirect personal relations, she was quite kind to us.
Far superior writers in the genre.
Alan Furst. Spy books set in the early days of WW2. For some reason they’ve been marketed as a series, but each book is a standalone with completely different characters. “Night Soldiers” and “Dark Star.”
Dan Fesperman. “The Warlord’s Son” is set in the days leading up to the US invasion of Afghanistan. Burnt out reporter and a self exiled Afghan search for bin Ladn.
Other things being technically superior doesn’t mean a thing isn’t worth your time, though. I listen to a lot of extremely talented musicians but a good chunk of my library could be learned in a Guitar 101 class, too
Back in the day, I started ‘The Hunt For Red October’ and noped out when the Soviet submarine commander wrote the KGB a litter telling them that he was stealing the most powerful weapon on Earth. It was so colossally stupid that I refused to read another line.
Unless you’re telling me that you actually listen to Guitar 101 students making all sorts of errors.
Here’s Ray Charles singing The Alphabet Song. Superior talent can take simple things and vastly improve them. Untalented people can take good ingredients and make an inedible mess.
They Might Be Giants wrote, “The sun is a mass of incandescent gas…” Still a good song despite being wrong (yes I know they’ve “updated” it)
People love Marvel movies even though they’re full of plot holes and formulaic stories but I’m not gonna say they should stop in favor of films which aren’t, ya know? Instead of saying “stop watching that crap,” say “you might also like [similar but ‘better’ film]”
For the record, I’ve never read a Clancy novel so I have no horse in this race
It’s apples and oranges. No one expects to get accurate scientific data in a pop song, and no one expects a comic book movie to be realistic.
People accept a lot of inaccuracies in a James Bond movie, but they’d feel cheated if Bond suddenly had the power to time travel or turn into a lion.
Since you never read the book I have nothing to add.
It’s not all that different. And I don’t think whether or not I’ve read Clancy is relevant here when my point is “people like different things about art and you shouldn’t pretend your preference is objectively better”
It’s totally cool to like things BECAUSE they’re hyper realistic but it’s also totally cool to not care about that. I am much more in-line with you in that regard…inaccuracies take me out of stories…But others aren’t bothered. Why tell them their preference is bad?
I quite enjoy the Tom Clancy books, and some of the film adaptations, but know he is right wing and it comes through in the books.
That’s the original comment I was responding to.
The books I cited are superior because they are not full of hard Right ideology.
They are also, in my opinion, much better written and far more enjoyable.
If you’d bothered to try and understand what I was saying, you wouldn’t have wasted all our time.
The books are better for the person who posted. Objectively better because they aren’t right wing screeds.
I do my best to avoid art from controversal figures, but more importantly I avoid financially supporting them. Sometimes that’s difficult, because they have been involved in so many things and that involvement isn’t always obvious, but I try.
One of the recent, easier examples is J.K. Rowling, whose stance as a self-proclaimed “TERF” has caused me to avoid her Harry Potter franchise except for the books and movies I already own (although I have still not had interest in those lately as a consequence of her stance). This is an easy case to avoid because it’s (usually) obvious what she benefits from and what she doesn’t, there is no guesswork or Googling. If it says “Harry Potter” in the title it is probably financially benefitting her
I mainly separate her and the work she’s connected to now because she has so much money that I feel it doesn’t really matter if she gets more from the franchise anymore. She’s a multibillionaire. She can keep contributing to whatever hate funds she wants to and still end up with more money at the end of the year because of her investments.
That’s a reasonable take, for sure, and it makes a lot of sense.
However, it is a bit of a rationalization to explain to yourself why you support her. It is analogous to not voting because you don’t think you’ll sway the election, that your vote doesn’t matter, in the sense that if enough people do it it does begin to have an impact.
Also, it isn’t about not giving her a lavish lifestyle, it is more about sending a message that her brand of hate isn’t welcome or tolerated. While she will make millions off of investments, if she sees that her bottom line was hurt because of her words she may, ideally, re-think them. Perhaps reflect on them, in a perfect world.
Admittedly, in reality she probably will only dig in deeper and feel victimized. But at least I’ll sleep better at night
In addition to this, money is power, money is speech. The more money she has, the more weight she has to throw behind her bigoted ideology.
Full agree, also the sins of the artist can sour the art in my mind. The art and the artist aren’t the same but they are linked. Understanding that is an important tool for media consumption. It doesn’t define what the art says, but it provides a lens through which to see it, and that lens may reveal ugly sides. Lovecraft’s xenophobia for example shows that it’s not just the horrors of a thassalophobe in New England afraid of what all could be beyond perception, but also a fear of that which is different and what you don’t understand as written by a xenophobic racist.
It’s tough when something that’s been a huge part of your life turns out to be made by an unlikeable person. Two big ones for me off the top of my head are Megadeth and Orson Scott Card. Music and novels that were big parts of my formative years. While I still have fond memories of their works in my life, I don’t go back and revisit them much from what I’ve learned about the people since then.
In an age where anyone can get their content out there, there are too many people doing equal quality creations without the baggage, so I’d rather just move on to new creators I can spread the word about than trying to defend someone who’s already seen success and tarnished it for themselves. It’s not enjoyable to have to defend someone questionable to anyone else, or to myself.
Officially, yes, I separate them. In truth, there are some artists whose I’m less likely to enjoy once they did that thing they did.
Like, I don’t really want to see Kevin Spacey movies anymore. But I’ll still watch everything Mel Gibson does. I could make arguments for why that is (Gibson was drunk, moment of weakness, whatever), but it’s really just about how I feel. I could make similar arguments for the ones I don’t feel like watching anymore.
I do think we’re all kind of dirt-meat struggling through a confusing nightmare, and art is one way we rise above it. The best art is often made by broken people. Broken people don’t act right.
Oh man Kevin Spacey outing himself as a disgusting predatory piece of sh1t ruined his movies for me forever! American Beauty was one of my favorites as was The usual suspects. Now I can’t watch them anymore.
I have a hot take on this one. I actively try not to. I disagree with the concept itself.
When it comes to buying their art, why would I do that if I don’t like the artist, why would I support them that way?
When it comes to seeing their art as their ideas/ideology/etc, if I don’t like them I probably don’t exactly because I disagree with their ideas, so again it doesn’t make sense to me.Usually not.
Do I cherry pick? Depends on the severity.I don’t research every book, movie, album before consuming, but yes, if it’s by someone I recognize and have moral/ethical problems with, I will avoid it.
Roman Polanski is the first that comes to mind. His movies are typically my jam, but I don’t spend money to see them.
It extends past traditional media for me. I didn’t just go quiet on Twitter when Musk took over, I deleted my account. I try to close accounts and delete data from other platforms when they enshittify.
I don’t research every book, movie, album before consuming, but yes, if it’s by someone I recognize and have moral/ethical problems with, I will avoid it.
Same. If i see shitty news/stories about someone, then ill likely stop supporting them to the best of my ability. Sometimes its unavoidable, sometimes its too much effort, sometimes its so entrenched its impossible to eliminate (like nestle, tho i try hard AF to avoid them).
If someone i know tells me why i shouldnt support someone/something then i will take that more to heart and actively research & avoid it. It obviously means enough to them to share their concerns, and id rather support my friends.
Good point on Nestle. Yes, start looking at corporate connections and it’s difficult to not support anything that traces back to healthcare-for-profit or the “military industrial complex” or massive polluters or slave/child labor users.
Young me would kick myself for thinking such communist thoughts, but it’s almost as if there’s no ethical consumption under our current system of capitalism.
If I really like their art, I separate them. I have to, they’re already rich. Why punish the innocent fans who found something that brings them joy?
The flipside is that people get away with horrible things just because they’re good at what they do. In doing so you’re also missing out on good art, because there are actresses/scientists/whatever who don’t want to deal with that
For sure, I do draw distinctions between people who are abusive to others and people who have shitty political views. I don’t write off people’s humanity over most political opinions but I straight up can’t watch Cosby anymore
The personal is political.
For me it’s materially based. Are they alive and profiting from my listening to them? Then I avoid it. Are they dead or is the money going somewhere not horrible? Fine I guess. Like imagine buying or supporting Nicki Minaj knowing she used that money to harass rape victims. You can seperate all the art you want, if you paid her you paid for that.
