- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24657192
Summary
In a virtual speech at the World Economic Forum, Trump suggested Canada could become a U.S. state to avoid his proposed tariffs on imports.
The remark elicited gasps from the audience.
Trump claimed the U.S. does not need Canadian lumber, energy, or vehicles, vastly overstating the trade deficit between the two nations.
He reiterated his intention to impose tariffs, potentially as high as 25%, on imports from Canada and Mexico starting February 1.
Economists warn such tariffs would raise prices for U.S. consumers.
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Oh, boy, what you’ve got going on looks like so much fun, how could we want to miss out?
Canada is avoiding Trump’s tariffs by not becoming a state.
They are not paying the tariffs, american people do. So by joining the US they would start paying all the tariffs that Trump is putting on China’s products, European products …
Why do people think that happens? It does not happen. 90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies trying to keep up sales to the US because there’s nowhere else to go, and even if they sell elsewhere, it’ll be discounted that much to other countries because of the general laws of supply and demand.
The only way, and it’s one that we have nothing in place to effect, is to mark prices as of the tariff date and to enact an export tariff for the amount of the sale under the price set point. That would highly discourage discounting sales and pretty much just cut them off since, in the case of products made or produced in the US, it would be competing with local products at 125% of the local price.
The importer, not the exporter pays tariffs. Aka Canada pays nothing, things made in Canada have an extra tax attached to them when they cross the boarder into the us, paid by Walmart or whomever ordered the goods
Yes, but in the real world, while the importer pays the tariff, they’ve taken a discount on cost from their supplier in order to compete with local goods that aren’t tariffed. That’s why no country wants tariffs applied to their imports. Its almost like governments understand how this works.
Ummm no.
In the real world consumers ultimately end up paying the tariffs.
Domestic suppliers have a tendency to raise prices is response to increased demand and decrease competition from imports.
When Trump implemented a tariff on Washing Machines in 2018 during his first term. The price of imported washing machines went up, the price of domestic washing machines went up, the price of dryers… which weren’t tariffed went up.
Eventually it did led to more washing machines and dryers being manufactured domestically. Which did lead to a small increase manufacturing in jobs. But it was a net loss for the consumers.
Tariffs function as a flat tax on goods. Like all flat taxes this benefits the wealthy and hurts poor and the working class.
Well, when it’s been in place and the Canadian economy is in free fall, you can come here and tell me how wrong I and all the governments were about how this works. I’m sure it’ll go totally different than the softwood lumber tariffs that shut down the forestry industry in BC for a decade.
Here’s the Canadian forest industry take on tariffs. Mostly borne by Canadian producers:
https://forestresources.org/2024/12/19/a-discussion-around-tariffs-on-cdn-lumber/
Canada is already a state… a SOVEREIGN state.
If he can point to it on a map 😄
Just. You know…
become a state.
<sigh> Four more years of this shit. But oh well, it’s worth it if it spared a few people of superior moral integrity from compromising their principles to vote for Harris when she didn’t measure up to their requirements and the Democrats didn’t run a good enough campaign and besides it was kind of cold that day and it would have meant putting on pants.
Why are you okay with your fellow Americans being unrepresented in the voting booth?
Are you working to replace First past the post voting in your state? People should be free to vote for those they deem best, while still counting their vote against those they don’t want in office.
We don’t need to wait for a miracle from congress. How we vote us controlled at the state level. Alaska has already done away with FPTP voting. Republicans were so upset that Ranked Choice voting kept Sarah Palin out of office they offered up a referendum to go back to FPTP voting. The people of Alaska voted to keep it
Why do you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer? Do you support democracy? Or do you get off on telling people how to vote?
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
That is a huge leap of logic from the parent comment. They sarcastically said how happy they were that some people got the satisfaction of staying home and not voting, and you took that to mean they don’t support democracy?
I’m Canadian, and Justin Trudeau, our current (for a few more weeks) Prime Minister, campaigned in 2015 that it would be Canada’s last election with FPTP. They put a committee together that made some recommendations, but the government untimately ignored those recommendations, said it was too hard, and nothing changed. (Yes, that’s an incredibly simplistic take, don’t @ me).
FPTP benefits them. The Liberals won a majority of seats with only 40% of the popular vote. Large parties tend to benefit from FPTP because it discourages minority and fringe votes. So while I’m sure you’re right that the Republicans prefer FPTP, I’d bet a shiny Canadian dollar (or about 0.69USD) that the Democrats also prefer FPTP.
Feel free to express (and explain) your opinion that some people are unrepresented, but why are you okay with pretending that’s my opinion and asking me to defend it? Millions of people who voted for Biden in 2020 refused to vote at all in 2024 because the Democratic Party hadn’t given them a candidate they liked. More than enough to defeat Trump, but that wasn’t important enough for them to step off their moral high ground, and now here we are.
I personally think this is bravado to negotiate something more realistic, although if he really wanted to it’s unlikely Canada would resist.
Why people keep listening to what that being says? Just respond to his actions, anthing else is useless…
I somewhat agree with your point but after years of him saying he would do fucked up shit and then him doing a lot of it, it helps to be prepared for his intentions as they manifest into actions in many cases.
My point goes mostly to international leaders or representative people that over-react to his words and then the media look to amplify it by doing it a “new”: part of his strategy is this shit bombing upon saturation, so it buffers a space of allowance of shit actions in the public opinion that otherwise would have suffered of even more rejection if done without this probing, confusing and dragging resources in the meantime to attend this… which in the end will not matter how are they answered, prevented or reacted, he will push anyway in that direction, so I would give zero weight to all that diarrhea, shit will come willing it or not since he has the power to do it, accepting any kind of conversation with someone like that is playing a rigged game and lose terrain… why accept his ability to an exchange of opinion in the first place? why respond/listen to him? He behaves like the strongest bully, the corresponding treatment is required… join on isolating him, he will not make it easy though. This is my opinion…
What about the provinces within Canada? Are they gonna all merge to become one US megastate?
All I know is that Quebec would never allow that
All hail GiGa Montana
Finally, Hannah Montana!
There is no actual fentanyl or immigration basis for tariffs on Canada. Just submit to less representation than California, and help absorb large US debt with little in return for it.
There’s no basis for tariffs on Mexico either.
Really there is no basis for any tariffs, the richest nation in the world putting tariffs on other nations products because they can’t keep up is embarrassing.
Us citizens pay tariff this doesn’t hurt Canadians. They should call bluff and say do 30%.
Actually tariffs will hurt Canadians deeply. Why? Because it means that Americans will lean towards not buying products made in (or partially made in) Canada. Plus, Canada would certainly reciprocate meaning the price of everything is going to go up in Canada. It’s not a good situation and our government needed to be spending the past 10 - 20 years developing stronger trade relations with other countries but instead we amplified our relationship with what is clearly a very unreliable and untrustworthy neighbour.
Basically sums up how half America feels about its country.
Canada will absorb most of the extra cost if we want to sell product to the US.
Will it though. Seems like Mexico will build the wall talk.
Honestly, the only way to keep that cost in the US is to mandate that anyone selling across border has a price set as of the day of the tariffs. If they sell under that price, they get export tariffed for the difference. Then at least there’s a chance that the tariff burden will be passed on to the US consumers and maybe they’ll do something.
But we don’t have anything in place to make something like that happen at this point, and even if we did, I doubt we have the political will to shelter Canadians that way. Sure as fuck Polievre won’t do any such thing.
We have a lot of resources. Ya our shit will get more expensive, but he’s gonna fuck his own country doing this. Canada will survive.
It potentially reduces exports from Canada to the US, hurting our economy. Nobody wins
Canada imports more from USA than it exports to USA. A trade war that decreases exports would hurt USA more than Canada.
The largest exports from USA to Canada are cars and trucks. (Finished products) The largest exports from Canada to USA are minerals, fuels and pulp. (Raw material)
This puts USA at a disadvantage in a tariff game, because it’s a lot easier for Canada to replace American cars with Asian or European cars, than it is for USA to replace the variety of ressources that Canada provides
It’s also a lot easier for Canada to find other customers for raw materials than it is to sell American cars on other continents.
We’ll have to analyze more deeply but it is very likely that these exports to Canada are actually coming from México.
My understanding is that tariffs in general can apply to both imports and exports, on either side.
Well according to wiki you are right. I was on ever taught tax on imports in school. Taxing exports only works of there is one possible vendor and if there is not then the competition will just has to charge slightly less while expanding production.
Imagine if China , EU, and or japan be like here is 10% discount. Or better yet Trade alliance among countries who Trump charges on exports would be hillarious.
Or better yet Trade alliance among countries who Trump charges on exports would be hillarious.
This is exactly what is happening, its the main reason of the rise of BRICS.
Well that will makes things more volatile among former friendly nations.
How about trump can suck my left nut. There, I said it.
Canada’s economy is dependent on the US. Trump might actually pull this off.
Canada’s oligarchs like the fact that only Israel and US is allowed to compete with them, and elections are cheaper to buy. A single state makes them lose power. Population understands only negatives from US, and also would not vote for Trump.
Unfortunately for Canadians, they are still programmed to side with US over China and Russia, and that programming makes it a blasphemy to seek independence that would also protect them from the US. As long as Canada’s position is to beg to restore its fully subservient colonial status, then the Trump extortion will continue.
One goal that Musk would have behind this is that it can destroy the big 3 automakers.
Not likely.
Likely doesn’t mean inevitable. I am the pessimistic type, so there’s that. I hope that I am proven wrong.
Canada is also America’s largest trading partner.
America had $357 billion dollars worth of imports from Canada in 2023, if they introduce a 25% tarriff Americans will pay $446 billion instead because it’s not like you’ll get all that stuff anywhere else for cheaper since America is going to put tariffs on practically every other country they trade with apparently.
Corporations spend billions on the current infrastructure and trade routes and logistics, they will not uproot everything and go through the pains of firing everyone then moving to America and retraining because of a short term loss. American administrations are fickle, many of them will simply wait out the 4 years hoping it will return to normal then. If it doesn’t then maybe they might consider it then but for the next 4 years Americans are going to be paying a shitload more for anything that’s not made in America.
American businesses will also find it a lot more difficult to sell their products out of the country when those countries retaliate with tarriffs against them.
Alberta will be happy to hear that
