The fact that you get charged for a paper statement and that is not an opt in is more infuriating.
I left two cents in mine and just left it as is. I like to think that every time those pirates send me a letter telling me I have 2 cents left or send me checks which I don’t cash it costs them money.
It does cost them money, more than you have in the account.
At the very least, the USPS is getting money out of them. More than the 2¢, even.
eyup. had this twice. so annoying that jobs don’t let you choose an hsa for it to be deposited into.
When I was looking for a non-employer HSA, there’s a lot of providers out there with not-exactly-predatory terms. All kind of fees or restrictions that you wouldn’t find on other types of checking/saving/brokerage accounts. I ended up a Lively, but they added some investment/transfer fees when Schwab bought Lively’s investment partner TDA.
I suspect it’s partly because most HSA are determined by the employer, so someone in HR can be induced to choose a fee-laden plan if it’s easier for them, and partly because the tax benefits are so great that it still makes sense even after paying a $20 junk fee here and there.
You don’t get it. It’s a health savings account.
They charitably contribute a whopping 0.05% APY to an account that drains to zero every year.
That’s FSAs.
HSA funds continue growing so long as you aren’t using them. If you’re healthy and actually middle class or better they act as a 3rd retirement vehicle, since after 65 you can use it for whatever and they don’t penalize you.
My HSA interest rate is actually 0.01%
Are you not allowed to invest it? My HSA is invested in an ETF…
Of course, it’s not a massive menu of investment options but it has all the basics like SP500, target date funds, bond funds, dividend funds, etc. The cash portion, and it is literally called a savings account, is really bad rate, this 0.05% rate is really good compared to mine 😂. For my plan you have to keep at least $1000 in the savings account before you can invest.
Yeah, well don’t keep it in that part lol.
You are correct that if it drains to zero every year that is an FSA for sure
Exactly this, they’re best used as a tax free investment account rather than anything health related. If you’re on a plan with high enough a deductable to be eligible for an HSA and can afford it you should max out your HSA contributions before even a penny of unmatched 401k contributions. Personally I’d argue that you’re better off maxing out the HSA and using post-tax money to pay medical expenses unless close to the end of your career. It’s one of it not the single most easily taken advantage of ways to not pay tax at all on a long term investment.
The system is indeed stupid but the least you can do is take advantage of it where possible and for the middle class the HSA is one of the best ways.
Why is it better than unmatched 401k?
Once you hit 65, you can withdraw HSA funds for any purpose, tax free, like a Roth IRA. 401k withdrawals will be taxed as ordinary income, so an HSA dollar is worth about $1.20 in a 401k.
401k money is taxable as regular income on withdrawal. The expectation is you will be in a lower tax bracket after retiring, so you win.
HSA is not taxable, although I don’t know if that’s just when used for medical expenses
After 65 they don’t audit what you withdraw for.
You know, I can look up the definitions of HSA and FSA and things like that, and I can have the definitions right there in a document on my screen, but they still don’t make any sense to me in terms of how they relate to me specifically. A lot of times they seem like they depend on me predicting things in the future that are unknowable, like my future health or how and where I will be billed for something. And that’s assuming I also look up related terms like APY and deductible and figure out what those mean. If I ask any HR people they’re like “just contact the provider for an explanation” and I’m like yeah, I totally want to deal with the phone menus and hold times of some faceless corporation, just to have them pull some BS like OP’s talking about.
Sorry about the rant. I guess that’s what I find mildly infuriating.
To simplify both posts below:
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FSA: good if you know you’re going to have $2-3k+ medical expenses and want to use tax deffered money.
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HSA: good if you want to save tax deffered money year over year (and don’t mind having a high deductible insurance plan)
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additionally, some people use HSAs as an investment for retirement.
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The main difference is FSA is use it or lose it. I got Lasik many years ago because I had 1 month to use $2000 in my FSA.
HSA is like a 401k that you can deduct from immediately for medical needs.
FSAs do depend on you kinda predicting or hedging bets against your own health since they only last the year. You can also use them to buy certain health/exercise equipment though.
HSAs can often be invested (in stock market) thus act like an IRA with extra tax avoidance if you manage not to use it for long enough. It’s counter to the stated purpose but it’s basically better to not withdraw or reimburse from it unless you need to.
Deductibles are Deductibles. How much you have to pay before insurance “kicks in”. There are per visit deductibles and yearly deductibles which are as they sound. HSAs are only available to plans with high deductibles. FSAs are available to plans that aren’t just high deductible.
I switched off of the family HSA plan after two years of paying out of pocket at the end of the term. It depends on the customer.
Regardless, the interest rates are abysmal.
Yes, but most HSAs let you invest in index funds so it becomes like another IRA.
But now you’re paying your bills with post tax dollars instead of pretax.
MAX OUT YOUR HSA YEARLY!!! BANDAIDS, NEOSPORIN, I THINK BURTS BEESWAX!!! They take every penny you don’t spend when you quit. I had to let 10k go earlier this year, and the kicker, the company you worked for gets to keep it. Carte Blanche. Mine gave it to mgrs as a bonus.
This is FSA not HSA
Just to add context:
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FSA (Flexible Spending Account) is funded by pretax money and can be used on certain health expenses. While you can have an FSA regardless of health insurance plan, the money is USE IT OR LOOSE IT.
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HSA (Health Savings Account) is similar to an FSA, but only available to people with a high deductible insurance plan. This money is YOURS FOREVER and can even be invested.
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No, you should probably collect your documentation and engage an attorney. Money in an HSA is yours, whether you leave the company or not. Your contributions need to be made while you’re covered under an eligible health plan, but once you’ve made the contribution, funds are yours forever, and can be spend on any eligible expense in the future.
You got scammed dude
fee fee fee fee fee fee
HSAs are a misdirect to get you to ignore how shitty high deductible plans are. Never take the high deductible plan.
HSAs are also a way to get healthy people away from wanting universal health care by catering to their self interest, just like how IRAs were intended to let people with money invest in retirement which eroded support for social security.
It depends though. If you are relatively healthy with no chronic issues (yet) and have enough saved for an emergency, it can save you a good amount of tax-free money that you can use for when you get older and sicker. That and the monthly premium is much lower than a PPO. Obviously universal healthcare is still the best option.
My company has high deductible plan with $1800 deductible and another with $3600 deductible. I just divide those by 12 and add to monthly premium when comparing against HMO/PPO plans.
I’m single and old.
Is your company paying part of the deductible? I can’t get an HSA-qualifying plan with deductible under $6000. Also single and old.
Generally the lower the deductible, someone is paying more upfront. How that is split between employer and employee is unknown to me. My last two jobs have had similar high deductible plans.
it’s always fine until it’s not
It really depends. My company, you always do the high deductible. The OOP Max is only $5k compared to $13k for the other. The difference in premiums plus my employers contribution to the HSA are more than the difference between the two deductibles. The plans cover the same stuff. I don’t really get why they’re set up how they are.
My company offers something similar, but I worry it’s a short term incentive to get more people onto HDPs and then quietly make that the only option.
I save money with the HSA/high deductible. I always plan around using 100% of deductible. Premium plus HSA contribution is less than the PPO option.
I’ll never pick an 80/20 plan. They generally charge more and cover less.
And I’m an old hag and have recently got cataract surgery in both eyes, hearing aids, etc.
Reminds me of when my ISP who was “no contract” had a cancellation fee. Like I have to pay money to stop being billed? Something about that feels very backwards.
Not to mention illegal.
Yep,
I don’t consent to that charge.
Oh, it’s one of our rules.
Too bad so sad, no contract.
This is not mildly infuriating. This should just be illegal. Paying money to close your account is beyond infuriating
That schedule of fees looks like it’s straight from the 1980’s.
It deceives people whose idea of how things work in large companies hasn’t changed since the days when it was the manager of your bank branch who decided if you you should get a loan or not.
Nowadays, for certain in middle and large size companies, all the administrative main business pathways are heavilly if not totally automated and it’s customer support that ends up eating the most manpower (which is why there has been so much of a push for automated phone and chat support systems, of late using AI).
Those $25 bucks for “account closure” pays at worst for a few minutes of somebody’s seeking the account from user information on a computer, cross checking that the user information matches and then clicking a button that says “Close accout” and then “Ok” on the confirmation box and the remaining 99% or so left after paying for that cost are pure profit.
CFPB is aware of the issue. I’m guessing that the incoming administration is not going to care about fees.
And thank GOD! if a Business wants to Steal ALL my Money that just makes them GOOD BUSINESSMEN! If I wanted Rights I would Lift up my Bootstraps!
Stealing is smart
It’ll trickle down
No no see the problem is that you have money, and you need to give them that money otherwise they can’t get more money
This is because you are not the customer. Your employer is the customer, they are the ones who get to choose the HSA provider for their employees. You are the goods to be sold. The HSA provider is simply harvesting profits.
“You are not the customer, you are the product” is true so often, but in many cases (like this one) it doesn’t really apply.
First off, “not the customer but the product” is an inherently antagonistic relationship. Your goals are opposed to Facebook’s, for instance, because you want to spend less time on the platform and you want to interact with friends and not brands, but Facebook wants the opposite of both. But with HSA administration, your goals and your employer’s goals are aligned: you both want someone who will quickly and painlessly manage your account without being a pain.
Second, “not the customer but the product” implies an undisclosed, extractive payment occurring behind the scenes. TikTok is harvesting a great deal of data from you and selling it to other companies. You are the product in that your data has value. But with HSA administration, the product is just the management of your HSA money; there’s no under-the-table dealing going on here (or there shouldn’t be); they’re getting paid by your company for their services.
Third, “not the customer but the product” relationships are entirely one-way; you have no way to impact the providing company beyond just not using their services. They do not, will not, and at some level can never care about your experience beyond making it as minimally useful to you to keep you on the platform. But that HSA provider desperately needs your company’s business, so if enough of your coworkers raise a stink and get your company to complain, they will make a change.
In actuality, “not the customer but the product” ignores the unfortunate reality of most HR/payroll service companies in this case: they’re just the lowest bidder, contracted at the bottom dollar to provide the cheapest services possible, because your employers don’t have to use their services and don’t care about your experience.
Thanks, I hate it
No lollygagging!
Don’t pay it
