"Muso, a research firm that studies piracy, concluded that the high prices of streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music are pushing people back towards illegal downloads. Spotify raised its prices by one dollar last year to $10.99 a month, the same price as Apple Music. Instead of coughing up $132 a year, more consumers are using websites that rip audio straight out of YouTube videos, and convert them into downloadable MP3 or .wav files.
Roughly 40% of the music piracy Muso tracked was from these “YouTube-to-MP3” sites. The original YouTube-to-MP3 site died from a record label lawsuit, but other copycats do the same thing. A simple Google search yields dozens of blue links to these sites, and they’re, by far, the largest form of audio piracy on the internet."
The problem isn’t price. People just don’t want to pay for a bad experience. What Apple Music and Spotify have in common is that their software is bloated with useless shit and endlessly annoying user-hostile design. Plus Steve Jobs himself said it back in 2007: “people want to own their music.” Having it, organizing it, curating it is half the fun. Not fun is pressing play one day and finding a big chunk of your carefully constructed playlist is “no longer in your library.” Screw that.
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“The problem isn’t price. People just don’t want to pay for a bad experience.”
The experience using a paid service is way better than pirating, let’s be honest here. The problem for some people is price.
For music, I think yes. For other forms of media, not so much.
Music is getting worse though. Spotify is bloating all searches with stuff you don’t want. The “Artist top songs” is rarely the most popular songs and is limited to 10 song. In the beginning you could list all the songs from an artist and sort it on “Plays”.
Spotify needs to connect to network to play songs, and there is no option to not play on metered network. So I sometime would play songs that Spotify mysteriously deleted from downloads, and loose a month of data.
Now, I mostly get my music from bandcamp and only listen to couple classical album on spotify, since there is no good place to buy them.
The day that Spotify pull a Netflix on their family plan is the day I leave Spotify.
I’m willing to say that this is probably true for most, but not for all.
If you run your own music streaming server, in some cases it’s better than streaming services.
This isn’t sour grapes either. I had Google music for a couple of years, and I currently have a ninety day trial of Spotify unlimited…these services might be better for most, but if you care about the things I do they’re worse.
I haven’t really even used my Spotify trial because my streaming setup is so much better in a variety of ways.
All that said, I’m an album listener, an older cat, and borderline music obsessive. I’m likely a dying breed. But I find music streaming services much worse.
I honestly think it’s much easier to have a catalog of music than, for instance, TV shows. I listen to the same albums over and over again, but I’m not nearly as keen on rewatching the same shows or watching the same movie more than even once.
The problem
isn’tis price.“People just don’t want to pay for a bad their software is bloated with useless shit and endlessly annoying experience. What Apple Music and Spotify have in common is that user-hostile design. Plus Steve Jobs himself said it back in 2007: “people want to Own their music (reuters.com).” Having it, organizing it, curating it is half the fun.”I fucking love my selfhosted flac collection! 250gb and growing
I don’t want to run a server for selfhosting, so I just have my library (about 300GB of mostly OPUS files) On my pc and on a 512GB microSD card in my phone.
I use Foobar2000 on PC and Poweramp on Android.
There’s no need to run a server if you can do the same locally.
Server is useful when you have a lot of devices with limited memory, or want to take advantage of some specific functionality server software may offer.
OPUS files
Ah yes, a man of culture
Wow, this is my exact setup. Except I have auxio exclusively for audiobooks to keep them away from my random shuffle.
Yeah sometimes with this self hosting stuff, it’s like wow it organizes my music, lets me play it, makes it available to other devices… so does my operating system.
Did it ever go away?
Not in the slightest. Even with the last decade of ‘pfft, why pirate when we have Spotify?!1’ dialogues, music piracy never slowed down for a moment.
I used to do lots of piracy back in the days. I am so glad those days are behind me and have not been big on the scene. What would be some sites to avoid to not fall in the trap of being a criminal. I love giving companies all of my money and do not ever want to go back to my old ways. Please help me with a nice list of things to avoid.
Thesome of the old music sites are still there. But I would avoid torrentgalaxy.to it has curated weekly albums of top playlists from Spotify, tiktok, etc that have all the new stuff updated every week, for your local playback displeasure. Only uncool people play locally stored music, all the cool kids stream. Do not go there.
I doubt spotify’s small price increase mattered as much as the big increase in overall living expenses. If the choice is between paying for services like spotify or paying rent, then it is a lot easier to pirate music than housing.
I don’t know, waiting for the day your favorite tracker goes down unexpectedly and either never comes back or is replaced by an FBI seizure warning is at least kind of like waiting for the day the cops finally show up to kick you out of the building you have been squatting in.
I agree conceptually. Experientially, I would say losing housing (legally occupied or not) is far more dramatic and life changing than being inconvenienced over the loss of a torrent tracker.
Source: In my drinking, I’ve found myself homeless (due to choices I made, no doubt). Wildly, losing access to torrents (which I’ve also done) is somewhat less consequential than being on the streets.
i’m a big fan of music streaming, the way i listen to music only really works with a discovery algorithm. but the way streaming services and labels have been unnecesarily fucking over the customer as well as the artist is getting ridiculous.
qobuzz could be a possible alternative, with them providing FLACs and/or CD quality tracks to purchase and download, but also having a subscription plan. they say more money is going to the artist. the only thing missing is the algorithm.
go ahead, tell me i’m “corrupted by capitalism” or whatever. this is the way i want to do it. there’s no point in building up a collection worth hundreds and thousands of euros now, apart from FLACs being gigantic files and taking up all of the storage on my phone. plus i would cut myself off from being able to discover good artists the way i’m used to.
the way i listen to music only really works with a discovery algorithm
People have been listening to music without an algorithm for hundreds of years. Even digitally, algorithms for discovery are fairly new. What’s so different about how you listen to music?
i have more than 10 playlists for different genres and occasions, the ““smart”” shuffle helps pad those out since otherwise the playlist would be like 20 songs long.
the recommended songs at the bottom are often pretty bad, but for every 10 shitty songs there’s one worth adding to the list.
occasionally i also listen to full albums, often only from bands i really really like.
i get that spotify influenced how i do it, and i don’t have a problem if people do it differently. but an algorithm is a major plus for any music platform (from my perspective)
i probably won’t start pirating music, but if spotify continues to enshittify itself i’m gonna have to look for alternatives.
I get it. I really enjoyed Spotify’s recommendations, but I had to quit as part of my “fuck streaming” pledge. My questions were genuine, I hope they didn’t come off as antagonistic.
I switched to Plex / Plexamp, and I have to say whatever algorithm they’ve implemented has greatly helped me discovery things in my local library. It does a great job at “vibe mixing”, by that I mean you’re not going to shuffle from rock to classical to electronic. It’s even nailed some transitions that were both beat- and keymatched.
Might be more than you’re willing to undertake, but it allowed me to drop the Spotify sub.
Not fun is pressing play one day and finding a big chunk of your carefully constructed playlist is “no longer in your library.”
this is exceptionally true from my experience with Spotify. I had downloaded a playlist that had a specific song. One day I went to play my locally downloaded playlist only to glance over it and see that the song was unavailable. I had the song downloaded. In my device and it still removed the song. No warnings, no nothing. Ever since, I downloaded everything locally and completely ditched Spotify. Fuck this scummy behaviour
I get your anger, but if they no longer have the license to play the song, they cannot allow you to play it, even if the file is on your device. I don’t find it scummy in the least. You didn’t own the file, you were renting it from Spotify.
Yeah, I get what you are saying, but then it’s imho dishonest Marketing, and the user expected something different when they signed up for the paid service. I think “renting” movies, tv shows or music is not something the user expects.
If they would advertise it as “pay us 20 Dollarinos a month, and you can listen to your favorite music for as long as we allow it and don’t take it away from you!” they surely would never be popular…
But that’s what they advertise. Everybody knows that streaming music from Spotify doesn’t mean owning the music there.
Well if i would ask my boomer-parents or non-technical people, they would tell me that spotify is just like collecting CDs, and that you keep the stuff you paid for.
Whatever you say lawyer, now he’s a pirate, nobody cares about the technicality.
That’s fair, but at least they could say something like “you can download our songs for as long as we allow it” and not “you can download your favourite songs and listen to them any time, anywhere” when that is only partially true, since, if someone has a playlist downloaded (still talking about personal experience) and they go offline for a long period of time, they can no longer play the songs and are required to get an internet connection only for spotify to audit and say “yeah you still have a valid subscription, you can still listen offline”. It’s not truly offline if I have to connect to the internet every once in a while.
Again, it’s completely fair, but they could at least tell more than half-truths
Piracy creates an endless loop of artists taking advances and eventually losing royalties. That’s just what I’ve seen growing up in the music /film/ TV industry and briefly working in both. Screw labels and Spotify but go support artists and actually buy stuff.
Artists have never made much of sales anyway. Go to shows.
“It’s my understanding that I had over 80 million streams on Spotify this year, So, if I’m doing the math right that means I earned $12. Enough to get myself a nice sandwich at a restaurant. So, from the bottom of my heart, thanks for your support, and thanks for the sandwich.” - Weird Al
Go to shows.
Ticketmaster has kicked in the doors of the chat, and secured every exit with burly goons.
This is still making them a significant amount of money regardless of Ticketmaster.
Fucking dirtbags. They were recently forced to lump all their fees into the ticket price so their new tactic is to tack on fake taxes when purchasing tickets. I recently bought some for a festival through a ticketmaster subsidiary (to a venue owned by ticketmaster) and they charged me $33 in taxes on the purchase. The thing is, I live in Oregon where we don’t have any sales tax. I wrote both them and the promoter asking about it and they gave me some bullshit excuse about them being “state and local taxes” (venue is in rural Washington) even though that’s not how it works when it comes to purchases nor are there any local taxes in that area. The rate they charged me doesn’t even match the WA sales tax rate.
buy swag from their web presence if you are old and your ears can’t do live shows no more.
Noise attenuating earbuds are a game changer, haven’t gone home with ringing ears since I started using them.
Those are called earplugs.
No they don’t. I don’t have a problem with let me listen to this to see if I should buy it. That’s totally understandable. People who just do it to get everything free is what I have a problem with. If you really like the work find a way to support them because those numbers open doors to bigger opportunities.
Totally agree on the show’s and I’ve seen some big name artists at small shows randomly. Also some really good merchandise.
Seems like advances exited long before piracy was a significant thing. Though I’m sure piracy does contribute to the imbalance like you describe.
I don’t mind paying artists for work that I like. Hell, I’ve bought much of my collection 3 times now: LP, cassette, CD. I never bought MP3s - just ripped them myself. All my CDs are in storage, which is dark, cool, and dry.
I’m pretty sure the distributors kept most of that money.
And that’s where the bulk of the problem lies: the power brokers that have always tried to control production and distribution.
And that goes back a long way. I know I’m being repetitive, but Payola has been around a long time, and rather indicative of the state of media production. It’s not like these ideas left just because someone got busted… They just learned new ways to accomplish the same goals of controlling the media marketplace without getting caught.
Screw labels and Spotify but go support artists and actually buy stuff.
This is the way.
It’s taken longer than I expected, but more and more people are realising streaming services as a model are not good, by any measure.
They cost more in the long run, you are made powerless as a consumer (perpetually increasing costs and removing your favourite content), and you can’t even get ‘everything at the convenience of your fingertips’ cause the market is fragmented and they remove things periodically. You own nothing and pay more. Absolutely stupid model that deserves to die.
I’m surprised everyone didn’t realize it right from the beginning before things got to this point. Better late then never, I - suppose.
My theory is that it’s just the fact that there is always a new generation of people around the corner who haven’t learned the lesson of how capitalists work. Therefore, there is always a market vulnerable to being swindled. They can keep using the same tactics, there’s always a delay in people figuring out the grift, then by the time they do there’s a new group of suckers ready to fall for it.
Yeah, that is true for video steaming, but not music. Spotify has almost every song on the planet, and with a family account it’s very cheap. Unless you only listen to a very small music library it’s vastly cheaper than buying all the music
Spotify has almost every song on the planet
Until a contract negotiation with UMG goes south and they lose half the catalog overnight. See what’s happening on tiktok right now for a good example of this.
I understand the convenience draw, but I’m not a fan of continually paying for content that can disappear at any moment.
Well if that happens, then there’s always piracy. But until then. I’ll use my family account. Because I don’t have the resources to download all the songs that my other 4 family member likes.
Or, since I cannot download each and every song they like, I’ll turn to another form of piracy. Revanced yt music.
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Their android app is total garbage and frustrates me to no end. I’m seriously considering just going back to pirating my music just because I hate spotifys music app…
Fuck YouTube rips. V0 for life!
I’m in the process of replacing all my mp3 (including a lot of V0 and 320) with FLAC. I know that most of the time I can’t tell the difference, but I did some testing and in some scenarios with some music I could tell. And, at the size of music files, disk is cheap.
To me, using FLAC files is like using a bay leaf in cooking. You can’t always tell the difference, but you can always FEEL the difference.
Great analogy
They don’t want a bad experience so they use shady websites to download music in the shittiest possibile quality? I don’t buy it.
People are just not able to afford what they want, that’s it
The quality is much better than you think. Most people also don’t have the acute hearing of audio technologist to determine if a song is 192kbps or FLAC without hearing them back-to-back repeatedly or would care much. It’s also why terrestrial radio is still a thing. People tend to either want full control of their library or just want something to listen to all without having to deal with an unfriendly interface.
shady websites
There are no innocents here. There’ s a case to be made that nothing is more shady for consumers than the mass data harvesting, profiling, brokering and content shaping that flows from using Facebook, Twitter, Amazon or TikTok
shittiest possible quality
You’re doing it wrong
If I download music, I have access to a larger music library, the ability to change the pitch, speed, and equalizer of the music, and the freedom to choose the player that I want.
I try to support artists if I can still download the music in a DRM-free file. Just this week I made a purchase, and late last year I bought an album and a midi file to support two artists.
For anyone who’s a music enthusiast, having the files makes more sense. Poweramp is a way better experience than Spotify or YT Music. I loved being able to set the EQ on an album or song basis.
That said, YT Music comes with YT premium, and I’m lazy, so I do that for now. I also haven’t got much of a commute right now, so I don’t listen to music near as much.
PowerAmp is the only thing I found that could replace Google Music in my heart!
For me, it’s neither the price nor the quality of apps (idgaf, it plays music in the background). The thing that pushes me towards piracy is the same as for movies and TV shows: disappearing content. Because of content licensing deals, every piece of media is temporary on a service. I do rewatch movies from time to time and it’s infuriating if it’s gone (or rather would be, if I was still paying for any streaming service). This is especially true for music. My Spotify favorites list has a huge percentage of greyed out entries (and I’m pretty sure there are things that were outright deleted).
I still use spotify as well. It works for me, i just found like 10 new songs last week. At the same time, last year i listened 2hrs/day on average.
BUT at the same time, every few months i export my whole playlists, just in case, using this site.
I think it was maybe 4 or 5 years ago I started noticing the greying out in spotify Minute that happened it was back to the high seas
The apps is definitely a part of it for me. One if my friends got YouTube Premium, and since he has 3 profiles he can attach to it, hrs letting me use it. It’s nice for the ad free videos on my TV. But it also comes with YouTube Music. It’s honestly kind of annoying at times.
Like yesterday I wanted to listen to an album by a band, and they only have like 2 of 3 albums. The one I wanted to listen to is the one they didn’t have. So I had to make a Playlist by finding videos of the songs.
And thats for a band that’s not super underground. I listen to a lot of grindcore and black metal, and a lot of that isn’t even on there.
And when you download things, you can only have it organized by albums. I can’t organize it by band and then have all the albums.
It’s also sometimes slow to load up stuff I’ve downloaded.
Over all its not the greatest experience. I’m currently looking at getting a mobile game device for my emulators so I can free up space on my phone, and then I’m thinking about just going back to having all the music on files on there and using an music player app. And like you said, I can have it organized how I want and customize things a bit more. Especially since I no longer have Comcast, so I can use Soulseek again.
Just a small tip with yt music if you are not aware, you can upload your own mp3s (50k files iirc). It’s the main reason I use it since so much dnb is missing from all the streaming platforms.
What DnB artists/tracks are we talking about here?
A large portion of the metalheadz back catalogue is missing, and also an absolute shitload of jungle is absent
Oh shit. I didn’t know that. Might be able to get some other albums on there then. Thanks for the heads up.
No problems, it’s the only reason I stuck to yt music when Google play music died.
@HipHoboHarold @flintheart_glomgold Yes, I have noticed a trend of homelab hobbyists going back to something like this:
- Soulseek -> Nicotine+ for plentiful, lossless content
- Jellyfin for self-hosting
- Infuse for streaming the content remotely to save storage on your phone.
I don’t endorse piracy for ethical reasons, but I get why this is trending up:
-Increasingly aggressive pricing models
-Service quality and content accessibility going downReally makes it hard for consumers…
It’s a whole torrent of alternatives, that’s for sure.
