there’s not really an end point where the brain stops developing
Sure, but the “25 years old” figure comes from when the pre-frontal cortex is sufficiently developed (i.e. reaches peak volume). That part of the brain has a lot to do with cognitive control, and it’s generally a time when most people have made or are about to make very long-term decisions, such as careers, relationships, etc.
The age of 18 for being an “adult” is even more arbitrary, 25 is a pretty decent cut-off that has some scientific merit. I’m not saying we should base any laws on it, I’m just saying that after that point, you’re probably about as prepared to make these types of choices as you’ll ever be, so if you have a mental development disability, we should probably end any restrictions around that time unless you specifically opt-in to additional protections.
is it conceivable that there could be a 17 year old who would be capable and mature enough to take on this responsibility?
Sure, which is why every rule like this should have exceptions. For example, I think we should allow 16yos (and perhaps 15yos) to vote, if they can answer important questions about how government works (i.e. what does a Senator do vs a House Rep?), policy choices of various candidates, etc. As in, demonstrate that they are actually interested in politics instead of just being pushed/manipulated by their parents/other adults. That type of “test” should exist for any policy where there’s an age gate. Who is in power absolutely will impact 16yos before they get a chance to vote, so it makes a ton of sense to give them a say if they’re aware of the political process.
But once you’re an adult, society has essentially decided that you’re free to screw up your life. We let you smoke, drink (in some areas), go into debt, join the military, etc. If we’re okay with that, there’s no reason to limit your choices on other things as well.
Going back to the topic at hand, if this law needs to exist, there should be a way for younger kids to demonstrate understanding of the dangers of social media, how to recognize predators, etc in order to get access before that legal cutoff. But even if that exists, I’m still against it because of the privacy violations that would need to exist to actually enforce this law. If this is just a token law and is effectively neutered by other privacy laws, maybe it’s not an issue. I don’t know Norwegian law, but I do have a similar law here and it absolutely involves privacy violations to enforce (i.e. have to provide government-issued ID to many websites now).
I disagree with you quite strongly on the topic of elections, I don’t see why being able to demonstrate knowledge of trivia is necessary for being able to express your political preference.
Personally, I would open it to anyone who is interested in voting may do so. There is basically no good reason against this, in my opinion.
Again, the pre-frontal cortex development stuff is as close to pseudoscience as it gets. We don’t really understand how a lot of brain function works, so the entire field absolutely reeks of phrenology to me.
Oh, and what a surprise! It’s being used to justify oppression. Isn’t that fun? Just like good old times!!
Government structure isn’t trivia, it’s a pretty foundational part of an election and part of K-12 education. You need to know which promises a candidate can and cannot deliver to make an informed decision IMO. This doesn’t apply to anyone 18+ because the Constitution (at least here in the US) guarantees a right to vote, so this would merely be a metric to separate interested underage individuals from those w/ crazy parents who want to try to stuff ballot boxes. We should also probably require anyone under 18 who votes to do so at a private ballot booth (as opposed to mail voting, for example), without their parents present, so they can’t be coerced into voting a particular way. If you have a legal guardian, there’s always the possibility of that guardian manipulating you to serve their own interests, and that needs to be accounted for in any broad-reaching policy like extending voting access.
We don’t really understand how a lot of brain function works
Fair, but that’s like saying “we don’t know the exact terrain of Mars so we can’t build a rover.” We know a lot about how brains develop, what parts of the brain do what, and so on. We use it in developing treatments for the brain, and those treatments work, and we’re learning more about why those treatments work every day.
Yes, there’s no magical cutoff for brain development because everyone is different. But there is a range, and AFAIK the consensus is that the brain is largely completed developing (however you define that) by your early 20s. Some people are ready sooner than that, some aren’t ready until later, but in general, most people can be considered “fully developed” around 20-25 yo. There’s little to no scientific evidence that 18 is a reasonable number for much of anything, and that number seems to be largely driven by culture (i.e. you’re strong enough to work on your own, so go work on your own).
I’m not suggesting any change in official or unofficial policy WRT age, and I think we largely agree that we should have more consideration for maturity (again, however we define that) rather than age. An 18yo dating a 17yo is a lot different than a 17yo dating a 14yo, yet the former is technically illegal in many areas while the latter is fine. But that doesn’t mean any discussion about age is unproductive, and having some age ranges makes a lot of sense when reasoning about a problem.
Sure, but the “25 years old” figure comes from when the pre-frontal cortex is sufficiently developed (i.e. reaches peak volume). That part of the brain has a lot to do with cognitive control, and it’s generally a time when most people have made or are about to make very long-term decisions, such as careers, relationships, etc.
The age of 18 for being an “adult” is even more arbitrary, 25 is a pretty decent cut-off that has some scientific merit. I’m not saying we should base any laws on it, I’m just saying that after that point, you’re probably about as prepared to make these types of choices as you’ll ever be, so if you have a mental development disability, we should probably end any restrictions around that time unless you specifically opt-in to additional protections.
Sure, which is why every rule like this should have exceptions. For example, I think we should allow 16yos (and perhaps 15yos) to vote, if they can answer important questions about how government works (i.e. what does a Senator do vs a House Rep?), policy choices of various candidates, etc. As in, demonstrate that they are actually interested in politics instead of just being pushed/manipulated by their parents/other adults. That type of “test” should exist for any policy where there’s an age gate. Who is in power absolutely will impact 16yos before they get a chance to vote, so it makes a ton of sense to give them a say if they’re aware of the political process.
But once you’re an adult, society has essentially decided that you’re free to screw up your life. We let you smoke, drink (in some areas), go into debt, join the military, etc. If we’re okay with that, there’s no reason to limit your choices on other things as well.
Going back to the topic at hand, if this law needs to exist, there should be a way for younger kids to demonstrate understanding of the dangers of social media, how to recognize predators, etc in order to get access before that legal cutoff. But even if that exists, I’m still against it because of the privacy violations that would need to exist to actually enforce this law. If this is just a token law and is effectively neutered by other privacy laws, maybe it’s not an issue. I don’t know Norwegian law, but I do have a similar law here and it absolutely involves privacy violations to enforce (i.e. have to provide government-issued ID to many websites now).
I disagree with you quite strongly on the topic of elections, I don’t see why being able to demonstrate knowledge of trivia is necessary for being able to express your political preference.
Personally, I would open it to anyone who is interested in voting may do so. There is basically no good reason against this, in my opinion.
Again, the pre-frontal cortex development stuff is as close to pseudoscience as it gets. We don’t really understand how a lot of brain function works, so the entire field absolutely reeks of phrenology to me.
Oh, and what a surprise! It’s being used to justify oppression. Isn’t that fun? Just like good old times!!
Government structure isn’t trivia, it’s a pretty foundational part of an election and part of K-12 education. You need to know which promises a candidate can and cannot deliver to make an informed decision IMO. This doesn’t apply to anyone 18+ because the Constitution (at least here in the US) guarantees a right to vote, so this would merely be a metric to separate interested underage individuals from those w/ crazy parents who want to try to stuff ballot boxes. We should also probably require anyone under 18 who votes to do so at a private ballot booth (as opposed to mail voting, for example), without their parents present, so they can’t be coerced into voting a particular way. If you have a legal guardian, there’s always the possibility of that guardian manipulating you to serve their own interests, and that needs to be accounted for in any broad-reaching policy like extending voting access.
Fair, but that’s like saying “we don’t know the exact terrain of Mars so we can’t build a rover.” We know a lot about how brains develop, what parts of the brain do what, and so on. We use it in developing treatments for the brain, and those treatments work, and we’re learning more about why those treatments work every day.
Yes, there’s no magical cutoff for brain development because everyone is different. But there is a range, and AFAIK the consensus is that the brain is largely completed developing (however you define that) by your early 20s. Some people are ready sooner than that, some aren’t ready until later, but in general, most people can be considered “fully developed” around 20-25 yo. There’s little to no scientific evidence that 18 is a reasonable number for much of anything, and that number seems to be largely driven by culture (i.e. you’re strong enough to work on your own, so go work on your own).
I’m not suggesting any change in official or unofficial policy WRT age, and I think we largely agree that we should have more consideration for maturity (again, however we define that) rather than age. An 18yo dating a 17yo is a lot different than a 17yo dating a 14yo, yet the former is technically illegal in many areas while the latter is fine. But that doesn’t mean any discussion about age is unproductive, and having some age ranges makes a lot of sense when reasoning about a problem.
That’s a bit reductionist.