I always see people blaming the American president but not Netinyahu or the Israeli government. It’s actually weird. As if he could stop the war unilaterally or like the US aid given to Israel is the only thing allowing it to happen.
I do not support Israel on this but I do find it weird how easy it has been for people to claim it as Biden’s fault alone.
I don’t think I’m abusing anyone, at least not if they argue in good faith. If they are screaming that everyone should vote third party, that’s different and should be criticized.
You say you agree, yet anyone critical of anything about genocide joe is literally trying to get Trump elected. Nah, you’re 100% behind the eradication of Palestinians, don’t you fucking dare pretend otherwise. They’re acceptable losses to you as long as biden stays in office and does four more years of worse than nothing
Good job, nuance doesn’t exist anymore. You destroyed the concept. It’s gone forever. Now, thanks to you, everything in existence is binary black or white. so much simpler now!
You literally do believe it’s black and white tho xD either you vote for genocide joe or you’re a nazi, with nobody allowed to criticize anything he does or question supporting him for even a second, because that also makes you a nazi
If you were Mexican or Palestinian genocide joe would be doing a lot worse to you than harassment (or pointing out your blatant hypocrisy, which apparently counts as harassment)
I hear what you’re saying, Bibi and his cabinet of whack jobs are currently the main perpetrators. However, if for arguments sake, Biden sat down with Bibi on October 8th and outlined very clear red lines for it’s military aid, ensuring any action that was to be undertaken by Israel would be discriminate and proportionate, we’d be in a VERY different position right now.
Biden and the US military aid to Israel is not the only thing enabling the genocide in Gaza, but the genocide in Gaza would not have been able to happen without it.
Biden could and SHOULD do a whole lot more to pressure Israel to end it. He should have said to stop on day 1.
But any aid or supplies we do or don’t send to them wouldn’t make a difference. They have an entire arsenal of military options and resources and have all the control and power over Gaza.
I respectfully disagree, I think the military aid and supplies that the US sends them definitely enables the disastrous policies against the Palestinians.
Not just enables, it’s the only thing that allows israel to do it.
Hezbollah and Iran could completely flatten israel if America wasn’t guarding israel with an entire fleet.
Furthermore the bomber parts are American and European. What israel makes in house is mostly ground warfare stuff which is a lot less capable to slaughter civilians like this.
America is thinking of hundreds of millions of lives in the next 100 years, and in the grand scheme of things what’s happening right now is sad and tragic for a footnote.
No Democratic voter is going to concede this, even though you’re right.
They will argue that poor Sleepy Joe is an innocent bystander in all this and completely powerless to stop it, even though he could very well stop Israel from getting five billion in charity annually from us that directly helps them annihilate civilians in Gaza.
Biden could do more, but that last sentence in your comment sounds far fetched to me. Or are you saying that because we’ve been aiding Israel all these years, that’s made it possible? I think that’s a gross oversimplification if so.
I don’t think it is. If Biden cancelled all aid to Israel over this, I think we’d see a big shift in Israeli policy. Remember what happened when the US finally dropped their support of apartheid SA?
Relationships are unique and I don’t think there are many people alive who fully understand the consequences of that move. It likely wouldn’t be just a “oh well I guess we call off the war” situation in any case.
It’s not his fault alone, but he’s a very strong supporter of Israel and is a major reason the situation became as bad as it is now. The POTUS can basically veto any Israeli policy or action involving Palestine, because even if we set aside the aid Israel just can’t afford to lose the veto protection at the UN.
Every single US president has been a vocal ally of Israel. Joe Biden is literally doing nothing different than any of his predecessors including Trump.
Yes 0.004% of the population of all Palestinians are dead.
You understand genocide means wiping out a population, right?
Is it the most incompetent genocide ever?
Please explain: surely Israel has the weaponry and capability right now to destroy every structure in Gaza City in about twenty minutes, why aren’t they?
If it’s genocide, why are the daily death tolls trending downward? They should be going up, if it’s genocide, they still have 99.996% of the way to go.
Not much has changed about the intent and none of you were screaming about the innocent Palestinians killed before things escalated.
Regardless, if y’all fuck around and elect Trump under the guide of myopic “principles”, you’ll see a lot more Palestinian children killed in the headlines. Somehow it will be democrats’ fault, you’ll scream. If nothing else you will claim they didn’t “earn your vote.”
A racist immoral dictator will have control of your country and the one thing you could’ve done was refused. But of course no one will be able to blame you without some weird justification coming out of your mouth, because you have “principles”
Well for me personally, I get to tell Biden what to do because hes supposed to represent me. If I lived in Isreal I’d probably be yelling about Bibi and wouldn’t say anything about Biden. I have no power, not even theoretical, over Bibi.
Criticizing Biden is fine. There’s more nuance to what I’m saying than that. The phrase “genocide joe” illustrates it perfectly for me. A weird trump-style nickname that is supposed to pin the whole thing on him. He should act very differently, but that doesn’t make it entirely a Biden thing.
Fwiw I try to not say that phrase myself anymore and instead if I bring it up ill say financier of genocide, because thats more direct, less charged and not nearly as debatable as the other one, So I’m not gonna argue against distaste for the nickname, but personally I’m neutral to it which could be why I end up on the ‘other side’ of some of these discussions. I guess I just feel like some people need to hear that, but I also recognize that not everyone is going to take it with enough nuance for it to be good.
Biden has given Israel “no red lines” and has backed them without question. The US has all the cards when it comes to controlling Israel and refuses to play any of them. Just threaten to cut aid and they’ll stop. Threaten to not back them in the UN. Threaten to recognize the genocide. Threaten to recognize them as an apartheid state. Threaten to recognize their nukes. Threaten to recognize reality and they’ll fold.
When Israel was bombing Lebanon, Reagan just gave them a blank stare and said “but it looks like a holocaust” and they stopped. Because Israel is nothing without the US and despite all Bibi’s bluster they know that.
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a casus belli. They are mortal enemies stuck together on the same piece of ground. Hamas literally has the goal of eradicating Israel, and they are supported in that goal by Iran and Hezbollah. Hamas aren’t “freedom fighters” trying to achieve a reasonable and peaceful compromise toward a two-state solution.
October 7 was conducted deliberately by Hamas to prompt an over-response by Israel. Hamas is hiding among the population and in tunnels under people’s homes knowing damn well that their presence is causing the death of tens of thousands of their countrymen.
Did the civilian population ask to used as human shields? I doubt it. Hamas decided to start a war without the consent of Gaza’s population.
Polls show Hamas is the most popular faction in both the West Bank and Gaza and it has only gone up after 10/7 because they showed that they are the only people willing and capable to fight the genocidal apartheid state of Israel. Hamas hides in tunnels because it’s been a proven strategy to survive air raids since Vietnam. The next time an IDF spokesperson claims that a Hamas base was under some civilian structure, consider the idea that Hamas merely had an exit point there. Consider how Hamas somehow trained airborne commandos and maybe that the IDF doesn’t actually know shit about anything that goes on in Gaza.
The human shields line is total bullshit. Human shields don’t work if the enemy is known to not care about the human. Israel has repeatedly claimed that Hamas uses “human shields” and then shot the shields anyways. Since 10/7 they have started shooting the “human shields” even if they are Israeli. The IDF just wants to kill civilians and is just giving you the run around.
Throughout all of this you still acknowledge that Israel is “over-responding”. That “over-response” is outright genocide. All you’re doing is trying to blame the victim of genocide for the genocide. Let’s consider you’re suggestion that Hamas deliberately provoked Israel into doing a genocide. Israel is still doing the genocide. You can question all you want if what Hamas did was necessary, AFTER YOU STOP ISRAEL FROM DOING THE GENOCIDE.
Matthew Waxman, an expert on the laws of war from Columbia Law School, said in an interview (link below) that Hamas clearly is using the population of Gaza as human shields, and that is a war crime. It is also a war crime to deliberately target civilians. But it is not a war crime to kill civilians who are co-located with military forces. That is the fault of the force who co-locates with civilians.
We can debate all day long about the long, complicated history and broader context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and there is a lot of fault on both sides, but in this post-Oct 7 phase of the conflict, Hamas is mostly to blame for the civilian casualties.
I always see people blaming the American president but not Netinyahu or the Israeli government. It’s actually weird. As if he could stop the war unilaterally or like the US aid given to Israel is the only thing allowing it to happen.
I do not support Israel on this but I do find it weird how easy it has been for people to claim it as Biden’s fault alone.
Biden doesn’t have to support Netanyahu’s genocide.
I know, and I agree.
And yet you hurl abuse at anyone critical of Biden’s support for genocide.
I don’t think I’m abusing anyone, at least not if they argue in good faith. If they are screaming that everyone should vote third party, that’s different and should be criticized.
If you start from the premise that all opposition to genocide is bad faith, that certainly makes it easy.
Who is doing that in this thread?
I’m not arguing with you dude. Since I’m hurling nothing here I assumed you were obsessing over my comment history. No more replies from me.
You say you agree, yet anyone critical of anything about genocide joe is literally trying to get Trump elected. Nah, you’re 100% behind the eradication of Palestinians, don’t you fucking dare pretend otherwise. They’re acceptable losses to you as long as biden stays in office and does four more years of worse than nothing
Good job, nuance doesn’t exist anymore. You destroyed the concept. It’s gone forever. Now, thanks to you, everything in existence is binary black or white. so much simpler now!
You literally do believe it’s black and white tho xD either you vote for genocide joe or you’re a nazi, with nobody allowed to criticize anything he does or question supporting him for even a second, because that also makes you a nazi
Please stop harassing me
If you were Mexican or Palestinian genocide joe would be doing a lot worse to you than harassment (or pointing out your blatant hypocrisy, which apparently counts as harassment)
Well I warned you
I hear what you’re saying, Bibi and his cabinet of whack jobs are currently the main perpetrators. However, if for arguments sake, Biden sat down with Bibi on October 8th and outlined very clear red lines for it’s military aid, ensuring any action that was to be undertaken by Israel would be discriminate and proportionate, we’d be in a VERY different position right now.
Biden and the US military aid to Israel is not the only thing enabling the genocide in Gaza, but the genocide in Gaza would not have been able to happen without it.
Biden could and SHOULD do a whole lot more to pressure Israel to end it. He should have said to stop on day 1.
But any aid or supplies we do or don’t send to them wouldn’t make a difference. They have an entire arsenal of military options and resources and have all the control and power over Gaza.
I respectfully disagree, I think the military aid and supplies that the US sends them definitely enables the disastrous policies against the Palestinians.
Not just enables, it’s the only thing that allows israel to do it.
Hezbollah and Iran could completely flatten israel if America wasn’t guarding israel with an entire fleet.
Furthermore the bomber parts are American and European. What israel makes in house is mostly ground warfare stuff which is a lot less capable to slaughter civilians like this.
This is exactly correct.
And that’s why the aid continues.
America is thinking of hundreds of millions of lives in the next 100 years, and in the grand scheme of things what’s happening right now is sad and tragic for a footnote.
You don’t create peace by supporting Nazi’s.
No Democratic voter is going to concede this, even though you’re right.
They will argue that poor Sleepy Joe is an innocent bystander in all this and completely powerless to stop it, even though he could very well stop Israel from getting five billion in charity annually from us that directly helps them annihilate civilians in Gaza.
No one is arguing that. Straw man.
Sure Jan.
Sick burn
Biden could do more, but that last sentence in your comment sounds far fetched to me. Or are you saying that because we’ve been aiding Israel all these years, that’s made it possible? I think that’s a gross oversimplification if so.
I don’t think it is. If Biden cancelled all aid to Israel over this, I think we’d see a big shift in Israeli policy. Remember what happened when the US finally dropped their support of apartheid SA?
Relationships are unique and I don’t think there are many people alive who fully understand the consequences of that move. It likely wouldn’t be just a “oh well I guess we call off the war” situation in any case.
It’s not his fault alone, but he’s a very strong supporter of Israel and is a major reason the situation became as bad as it is now. The POTUS can basically veto any Israeli policy or action involving Palestine, because even if we set aside the aid Israel just can’t afford to lose the veto protection at the UN.
Every single US president has been a vocal ally of Israel. Joe Biden is literally doing nothing different than any of his predecessors including Trump.
And now they’re committing genocide. The situation has changed.
And now they’re committing genocide more quickly than before. FTFY.
It’s become undeniable that this is genocide. We should cease support.
Yes 0.004% of the population of all Palestinians are dead.
You understand genocide means wiping out a population, right?
Is it the most incompetent genocide ever?
Please explain: surely Israel has the weaponry and capability right now to destroy every structure in Gaza City in about twenty minutes, why aren’t they?
If it’s genocide, why are the daily death tolls trending downward? They should be going up, if it’s genocide, they still have 99.996% of the way to go.
You’re really going to say it’s not a genocide because it’s not done yet?
Disgusting.
No, I’m saying it hasn’t started.
Not much has changed about the intent and none of you were screaming about the innocent Palestinians killed before things escalated.
Regardless, if y’all fuck around and elect Trump under the guide of myopic “principles”, you’ll see a lot more Palestinian children killed in the headlines. Somehow it will be democrats’ fault, you’ll scream. If nothing else you will claim they didn’t “earn your vote.”
A racist immoral dictator will have control of your country and the one thing you could’ve done was refused. But of course no one will be able to blame you without some weird justification coming out of your mouth, because you have “principles”
You can’t defend Biden’s support for Netanyahu’s genocide, so you accuse anyone who disagrees with it of wanting Trump to win.
I thought you said you wouldn’t reply to me again.
I can’t keep track of those of you who don’t care what your actions result in. Unfortunately there are a lot of you, which is precisely my concern.
Well for me personally, I get to tell Biden what to do because hes supposed to represent me. If I lived in Isreal I’d probably be yelling about Bibi and wouldn’t say anything about Biden. I have no power, not even theoretical, over Bibi.
Criticizing Biden is fine. There’s more nuance to what I’m saying than that. The phrase “genocide joe” illustrates it perfectly for me. A weird trump-style nickname that is supposed to pin the whole thing on him. He should act very differently, but that doesn’t make it entirely a Biden thing.
Fwiw I try to not say that phrase myself anymore and instead if I bring it up ill say financier of genocide, because thats more direct, less charged and not nearly as debatable as the other one, So I’m not gonna argue against distaste for the nickname, but personally I’m neutral to it which could be why I end up on the ‘other side’ of some of these discussions. I guess I just feel like some people need to hear that, but I also recognize that not everyone is going to take it with enough nuance for it to be good.
I appreciate this response. Thank you for being a nuanced human.
Biden has given Israel “no red lines” and has backed them without question. The US has all the cards when it comes to controlling Israel and refuses to play any of them. Just threaten to cut aid and they’ll stop. Threaten to not back them in the UN. Threaten to recognize the genocide. Threaten to recognize them as an apartheid state. Threaten to recognize their nukes. Threaten to recognize reality and they’ll fold.
When Israel was bombing Lebanon, Reagan just gave them a blank stare and said “but it looks like a holocaust” and they stopped. Because Israel is nothing without the US and despite all Bibi’s bluster they know that.
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a casus belli. They are mortal enemies stuck together on the same piece of ground. Hamas literally has the goal of eradicating Israel, and they are supported in that goal by Iran and Hezbollah. Hamas aren’t “freedom fighters” trying to achieve a reasonable and peaceful compromise toward a two-state solution.
October 7 was conducted deliberately by Hamas to prompt an over-response by Israel. Hamas is hiding among the population and in tunnels under people’s homes knowing damn well that their presence is causing the death of tens of thousands of their countrymen.
Did the civilian population ask to used as human shields? I doubt it. Hamas decided to start a war without the consent of Gaza’s population.
Polls show Hamas is the most popular faction in both the West Bank and Gaza and it has only gone up after 10/7 because they showed that they are the only people willing and capable to fight the genocidal apartheid state of Israel. Hamas hides in tunnels because it’s been a proven strategy to survive air raids since Vietnam. The next time an IDF spokesperson claims that a Hamas base was under some civilian structure, consider the idea that Hamas merely had an exit point there. Consider how Hamas somehow trained airborne commandos and maybe that the IDF doesn’t actually know shit about anything that goes on in Gaza.
The human shields line is total bullshit. Human shields don’t work if the enemy is known to not care about the human. Israel has repeatedly claimed that Hamas uses “human shields” and then shot the shields anyways. Since 10/7 they have started shooting the “human shields” even if they are Israeli. The IDF just wants to kill civilians and is just giving you the run around.
Throughout all of this you still acknowledge that Israel is “over-responding”. That “over-response” is outright genocide. All you’re doing is trying to blame the victim of genocide for the genocide. Let’s consider you’re suggestion that Hamas deliberately provoked Israel into doing a genocide. Israel is still doing the genocide. You can question all you want if what Hamas did was necessary, AFTER YOU STOP ISRAEL FROM DOING THE GENOCIDE.
Matthew Waxman, an expert on the laws of war from Columbia Law School, said in an interview (link below) that Hamas clearly is using the population of Gaza as human shields, and that is a war crime. It is also a war crime to deliberately target civilians. But it is not a war crime to kill civilians who are co-located with military forces. That is the fault of the force who co-locates with civilians.
We can debate all day long about the long, complicated history and broader context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and there is a lot of fault on both sides, but in this post-Oct 7 phase of the conflict, Hamas is mostly to blame for the civilian casualties.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4zO63JRg6VQ7LVnKrwI8cm?si=BoIW2OPdQrCIY_uhZ6P0lA