I was barely aware of the existence of pirate streaming services until they started cracking down on them. I torrent everything and run my own media server. (Millennial)
Phones (and tablets) changed the way people use devices. It’s neither better or worse imo, I use both methods.
I’m an older GenZ born in the late 90s and I’ve had to show a few younger peers how to torrent recently.
The idea of you needing a “special” program just for downloading a file seems to throw some of them off.
I do know a few young people are tech/programming wizards but “generally tech savy” people seem to be declining. It’s either you’re really into it or barely know anything outside popular apps.
One other thing I’ve noticed, People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices. Which its good people give at least a bit of a shit about security but convincing people Firefox isn’t a virus gets a bit annoying (Yes I’ve had that conversation).
The idea of you needing a “special” program just for downloading a file seems to throw some of them off.
Just call it an “app,” that’ll shut 'em up.
People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices.
I see this as a natural byproduct of Google, Apple, et al. “Walled Garden”
They want you to consume only from them and only what they approve of. Granted Apple is far more on the latter side than Google but even Google fought tooth and nail to keep Epic from having their own store.
I don’t interact much with people who are younger than me but I feel like the age of tinkering might not be as strong with them as it was for me. PCs were the predominant form factor and you could literally take it apart and put it back together with just a screwdriver. You can’t do that with laptops or phones at least not without a lot of other specialized tools. This isn’t their fault either since device manufacturers have really tried to make it difficult to do anything that they don’t control.
Hell chrome is the best example of this. Google, whose business is selling your personal data for ads, is preventing the use of ad blockers. Firefox is mostly developed by Mozilla with a small handful of volunteers. It’s already showing signs of enshittification. We don’t have a viable third option.
It will only be a matter of time before these tech companies start having brain drains due to their own greed.
They want you to consume only from them and only what they approve of
Not just that, I remember when app stores were new and people clamoured to be on them AND those app makers would often move to ONLY being on the app store, with anything downloaded off-store being a scam
So a lot of people grew up to use these devices at a time where downloading something off the web was more likely than not to be malware, giving them the ick on the idea as a whole
Fuck, I’m from the time a bit before all of that and even I have a goddamn hard time downloading shit that’s available off-store on someone’s website out of pure paranoia from those days
I’m an older GenZ born in the late 1900s…
FTFY
EDIT:
Many of my Gen-X colleagues in tech (looking at you Stanford alumni) have been really into making sure their kids got into math, science and tech from an early age. So I think tech is going to be like medicine or law. Households with one or two parents in tech are more likely to produce tech savvy children by default. Everyone else will require effort.
i remember not using firefox for a rlly long time bc i heard it’s ram usage with multiple tabs open was a lot less efficient than other browsers. idk if that’s true but i use firefox w 4 windows with 20+ tabs each and have never had a problem
For awhile Firefox’s JavaScript engine used more memory, but those gaps have been mostly filled.
When tested with 10 tabs open, Firefox occupied about 960MB of memory, which is only slightly less than Chrome.
this may still be true, we just tend to have more RAM nowadays
ah makes sense. i also have a pretty big swap file so i think that helps a bit when im doing other ram intensive stuff
It’s not true currently. Firefox and Chrome trade blows on which is more performance and which uses more/less RAM these days. It varies, but they’re quite close.
I currently have 130+ tabs open in Firefox and 90+ in Chrome in addition to some other programs open and running (libreOffice, vpn, and others) Everything is working fine on my old laptop with an i5 processor and 16G ram and windows 10, ssd hd
I can’t really game on this, and trying to run a virtual machine is a slog.
But VS Code, database, xshell, calibre, audacity, photopea, even basic video editing all run fine. Granted I usually do one project at a time, so I’m not using VS Code and editing videos at the same time.
The browser tabs are usually always open. Oh, and I actually just cleaned up my tabs. There were a lot more…
I feel like the memory issues are mostly worked out now for most of us.
I do know a few young people are tech/programming wizards but “generally tech savy” people seem to be declining. It’s either you’re really into it or barely know anything outside popular apps.
I feel like we also got a new kind of guy, the tech-forward digital illiterate. They run most of everything.
Why can’t browsers treat torrents as just another protocol for downloads, so that if you haven’t got a default set for torrent out magnet mimetypes, it just downloads it in the included download manager?
This would be terrible, because any website could potentially make you a seeder for „illegal“ content while normally browsing the web without a VPN. Meaning, your real IP address may accidentally be recorded by some lawerers and you’ll get a fine for whatever you accidentally shared (very dangerous, depending on country).
There are already solutions for webtorrents, but at least these scripts can be blocked.
No Herr officer, I was just trying to download my favorite distros, and I don’t know where all that Metallica/Disney/Nintendo came from.
I’m sure they probably could but they don’t really have the incentive to add support for them.
Brave does I think. I didn’t allow it to do so the one time I saw the pop up and I would not want that to happen unless I was always behind a VPN.
Because then your browser would itself have to be a torrent client.
The way torrents download is fundamentally different from how a standard http download works, which is why they have a specialist implementation. Browsers dont want to bother bringing a whole load of new code and associated bugs into the browser to do a job which isn’t really connected with the browser’s main responsibility, which is browsing the web.
Just because torrents come from the web shouldn’t make it the browser’s responsibility to deal with them.
You just reminded me there actually was a browser called Torch that could download torrents like a normal download. It was basically just Chrome with a built-in torrent client.
I remember trying it out when it first came out in 2012. It never caught on and looks like the last release was in 2020.
Opera had torrent support at the time I stopped using it, I never heard they had discontinued that feature but I’m assuming they did, both because it probably would have been mentioned in this comment chain already and also because making that decision should have been inevitable. I never used bittorrent before joining oink, I think I remember on joining thinking I would just use opera and then installing utorrent after finding out client whitelisting was a thing. Maybe I was already on oink when opera added the feature and I thought I’d try it because I was already using opera. Maybe this is all a fever dream, who can really say.
I think pocket and quite the slew of unrelated features disagrees with you. Seems like most browsers are happy to be the everything app.
generation “doesn’t want to deal with petabytes of hard drive bullshit just to watch a show”
Through various stages of my life I have used torrents, streaming, Usenet, Napster, limewire, aol/IRC chat rooms, discord, and even google searches. You must adapt to whatever works.
How could I possibly know a streaming site is illegal?
Streaming sites are illegal? How could I have known that??
I think the gap stems from need. Most people only learn what they absolutely need to. My sister and I are just 3 years apart in age. Yet I am pretty familiar with tech, while she knows next to nothing. I was always there to fix whatever broke. Even now she knows that if she needs to watch something, she can just ask me to add it to my Jellyfin server. I often have to remote into her system to fix stuff.
Jellyseerr is your friend. She can request whatever and you can get alerts to add it. Even if your stuff isn’t automated
I know about Jellyseerr, but I find it not worth it since there are very few people that send me requests. Messaging apps are enough for that.
Whatever works for you, simple is always better
Teaching college students, I agree that phones and ‘need’ are largely the culprit.
Loss of typing skill, trouble shooting skill, and file directory skill.
Better at cameras generally
Congrats on making me want to pull my youngest from public school for a year or so, so I can teach her typing, scripting, the command line, etc … (also, phonics) … Blows my mind that TYPING as a late-elementary-school glass is basically gone in our school district, nor is it a class that’s even available in middle or high-school.
also, phonics
Giving up on phonics was a horrible idea. I’m not sure whose to blame for that but it clearly was a disaster.
I agree with Chapo. Maybe you can teach these things in addition to what your kid learns at school? Might be a fun way to spend time together anyway.
That’s how we handled it when we home-schooled the older three for a while. They ultimately asked to go back to regular school, but they had stayed ahead of their peers.
Its definitely not all students and, in reality, I believe every generation has been deskilled to diff degrees. So, while these skills are noticeably worse with Gen z than it is with millennials, many young people I meet come to college with some or all of these skills.
So I think you could go with a less extreme intervention lol
Why do you think “many” come to you with all of these skills? Home-schooling is more common than ever. Most homeschoolers we met were also restricted to older or no tech… Even no tech seems to be better than consumption focused devices.
I really doubt homeschooling has much to do with it. Some subset of every gen is good with tech.
The one homeschool kid Im working with this semester is terrified to use the telephone. Their entire experience in home school education was largely sitting in virtual classrooms
Virtual Classrooms were the first thing we tried and realized it wasn’t for us. We dropped it within a few weeks. I can’t imagine spending any significant amount of time stuck with such a finicky and un-reliable medium.
“Look at it wrong and it breaks” is very apt in that situation; All the while they are “taking attendance”, and none of the lessons were available for later viewing. Our kids learned more from going through stacks of worksheets* with our help, reading, and just spending time with us as we went about whatever errands.
*worksheets were over 95% of the Virtual Classroom work anyways. The rest was art and poorly thought-out “expiriments”, with the occassional form-letter/one-paragraph-a-week “essay”. Not even book reports or recommended reading!
Even no tech seems to be better than consumption focused devices.
It is far preferable to teach old relatives, who have never touched a computer, how to do basic things than it is to try to introduce a better or faster or freer way to those who have already been exposed to the officially ordained Microsoft or Apple way of doing things that should be simple.
I also teach college students lol. People can’t even figure out how to upload assignments from their phone. Had a student tell me that she broke her laptop, so can’t submit an assignment even though it was already written. She was gonna scan it from her phone, airdrop to her laptop, and then upload the files to Canvas. I tried to explain that she can do it on the mobile app for Canvas instead. I eventually had to give up and asked her to drop it at my office. It literally felt like explaining stuff to my ma.
She was gonna scan it from her phone, airdrop to her laptop, and then upload the files to Canvas.
When you know how to use the entire toolbox, but only if you can use the entire toolbox…in order.
gen zalpha here!! we few who torrent do exist
You are like the .01% good job.
Teach those that dont know and continue to seed. 🏴☠️🛶
The only correct answer
Wait until they hear we have bots doing it all for us
Gen X: Oh, internet eh? So we don’t need to keep copying umpteenth generation video cassettes of that dodgy pirate movie any more.
Elder Gen-X: “I spent all weekend making this mix tape off of songs on the radio. I even got London Calling without the DJ!”
It’s not just a generational thing — most of the millennials who were torrenting 15 years ago (which was a lot of them!) have completely forgotten by now ime. Now I’m longing for the days when ‘VLC is the best media player’ was common knowledge and not arcana
I mean…it’s still the best ffdshow wrapper imho
VLC is still the best media player… But only on Windows systems. When I switched from Win->Linux I had to relearn a lot of new things that were common knowledge on Windows but work differently on Linux.
Specially Win11… Eewww !
Yeah, mpv is better on Linux. VLC is still my preference for DVDs on the computer though. Super easy.
I got into Linux by building HTPCs and then media servers, so it’s been a while since I watched anything hunched over a computer monitor tbh
Fair enough. Personally I put all my media on my Jellyfin server, so kind of a similar situation here.
as a high schooler with a special interest in computers, it’s genuinely surprising how poor most of my peers computers skills are. most of my peers don’t even know the very basics of folder structures.
also unrelated, let’s all love lain
special interest
poor skill of peers
(I’m totally with you though)
I could swear there was a wildly similar version of this particular comic that was even more on point with reference to assembly call codes.
there is, I tried to find it but I can’t seem to. there’s lots of versions of it for different interests, I love xkcd
lol I love that xkcd, but yes it absolutely applies
When I spent a few years teaching in the local school, one thing I taught was a class on Design and 3D printing. The VERY first thing I always had to teach was “how to use a mouse” before I could even begin to start teaching CAD modeling.
I swear, smart phones and touch screens are a curse and pox on humanity.
folder
Directory?
Don’t both Windows and MacOS call it folders, and Linux calls it directories?
Directories predate them however per Windows a directory is a type of folder that points to a location on the file system - a list of network printers are a folder but not a directory
fair. Thank you for the correction ILikeBoobies
I just watched lain some weeks ago without knowing what I have let me into 😂 got pretty confused, but I think in the end I got it. Probably…
I’ve tried watching it about 5 times and get to different points before I burn out.
It has sparked an interest in the works of R.D. Laing for who Lain is named in reference to.
A Psychologist who was active in the 60’s and is famous for their work with schizophrenics; I’ve been curious if their work may give a bit more context to understand Serial Experiments Lain
Twenty years ago when I was 13, I started doing web stuff. This was back when everything was super simple, so everything to get a webserver up was super manual. I’ll mention port forwarding at my current job and there’s this slice of people that are 28-40 years old that know what I’m talking about.
I love doing homelab stuff! it seems like at my school either you don’t know what a port is, or you actively maintain 3 web servers (the latter being the significant minority, with a total of like 3 of us)
I’m slightly younger than that even, currently finishing up my master’s but have been working as a backend dev for a couple of years.
I’ve learned an order of magnitude more about networking from just being in the vicinity of my girlfriend (who is a network technician) than from uni, and it’s definitely already paying off.
I blame google for the demise of well-organized folders. Their approach to email was “chuck it all in one big folder named Archive, and you can search for it using keywords that you will definitely remember when you need to find it again!”
It’s a useful tool, but paved the way for the current state of affairs where people get overwhelmed by their email because they have 150,000 unread emails in their inbox and as a result, don’t read an email until you tell them the entire contents of their email via the inferior messaging platform known as texting.
Idk. I blame Apple, and Android hasn’t done much to really bolster the need for file folders (not a bad thing, just lack of opportunity for learning).
But Apple actively prohibits its user base from engaging with folders, and has been for well over a decade - plenty long enough for my (millennial) generation to phase it out and for the generations after to never need them in the first place. Plus, emails aren’t dependent on file paths, whereas systems file paths are completely necessary.
Wait, with no folders how does apple deal with files these days? I’m a lifelong pc person so I have no idea
As a user you can’t access the filesystem. It’s completely abstracted away. At least this was the case for the iPhone 6
You may as well have asked this question in 2012 because it’s exactly the same as it was back then, except now there is iCloud. Which in some ways is impressive.
Folders are generic labels, Photos, Documents, Downloads, and within those there is folder structure, but I’ve never seen any Apple user actually utilize them beyond the most basic organizational functions (and even that is not common). Granted, my demographic for the past couple years has been the elderly, but before that I worked with kids and it was basically the same.
If you use Apple products, you don’t need folder structures because you can’t take files off your device easily, it basically has to go through some form of cloud upload, if not iCloud then Google Drive. And you don’t need folder structures for the same reason, cause why are you adding files to your device from somewhere that isn’t iCloud?
This is only like 95% facetious, it’s actually ridiculous how closed off Apple makes their products. By default when you make a spreadsheet with Apple’s software it exports as a .pages file, instead of the actually useful .xls. This is for every. Single. Program. Word files, PowerPoint files, I’m sure there’s even a PDF specific Apple file format.
Those inbox ignorers are monsters. My inbox is my todo list and if it has a scroll bar I get anxious.
deleted by creator
Yeah, Google Drive is huge because it just works and millennials are more comfortable going to a Google owned platform than doing something that seems sketchier.
Honestly as a German, torrenting seems to be way too risky. Internet providers will immediately cave when they are contacted about an IP adress they control and there are multiple law firms whose only business model seems to be sending out c&d letters.
In Canada, they can send those letters but not much else.
In Germany, those letters come with a fine, which they can sue you over, if you don’t pay.
Yikes :( that’s brutal. You could use a seedbox and encryption? I think that would mostly circumvent that issue. If storing it locally isn’t a concern, then just hosting it on the seedbox and connecting services like Plex to it works as well.
Hats off for our poor German friends. It’s definitely not easy over there, but if you do the private torrent tracker + VPN combo, you can be relatively safe.
Rightsholders have seeders sitting in public torrents to grab IPs to sue about. Private trackers are essentially a “club” that only invites known users, (friends of friends) and as such, fewer (not zero) rightsholders are able to join, and as such, fewer instances of being referred to a lawfirm simply because there isn’t anyone in the swarm who is a rightsholder who only wants your IP… because they don’t invite those kind of people most of the time.
Rightsholders like how hanging fruit like public torrents. Private trackers help take a lot of the stress away.
However, I don’t know how it works in Germany so maybe rightsholders over there are more zealous.
VPN?
Do you not have a VPN?
