The Chinese government has built up the world’s largest known online disinformation operation and is using it to harass US residents, politicians, and businesses—at times threatening its targets with violence, a CNN review of court documents and public disclosures by social media companies has found.
The onslaught of attacks – often of a vile and deeply personal nature – is part of a well-organized, increasingly brazen Chinese government intimidation campaign targeting people in the United States, documents show.
The US State Department says the tactics are part of a broader multi-billion-dollar effort to shape the world’s information environment and silence critics of Beijing that has expanded under President Xi Jinping. On Wednesday, President Biden is due to meet Xi at a summit in San Francisco.
Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs. They say it’s all part of an effort to drive them into a state of constant fear and paranoia.
I mean, just look at the comments section on X or Instagram and you’ll see this playing out in real time.
So CNN finally discovered Hexbear?
A bunch of actual people are keyboard warriors, trolls and bigots online?
No, that makes too much sense, everyone being mean online to Americans is a Chinese bot.
>Lemmy.ml account
>Excusing China.
I can’t prove it, but my hunch is a lot of the obnoxious people I argue with online, who seem unable to see reason or resist devolving to insults and twisting my words, are actually foreign operatives tasked with depleting American morale
IDK, I think there are a lot of pretentious idiots who refuse to engage in good faith discussions without any direct ties to any foreign governments. People adamantly hold on to all kinds of stupid opinions and argue fervently for them.
So it’s hard to tell who the foreign operatives are if regular people are willing to spread disinformation without any kind of compensation.
It’s called tik tok isn’t it?
They’re all over, here it’s called hexbear.
Good thing this instance isn’t federated with lemmygrad.ml & hexbear.net, protecting everyone from
They still leak into here.
Fuck the CCP, fuck any Chinese citizen participating in this, fuck your mudda, fuck your whole ancesta, like a someboody fuck you bic, Taiwan numba wun
Freedom of speech should not extend to foreign adversaries. Give me the ability to geoblock social media just like I can with my router at home. Accurately label any domestic sources that are relaying this disinformation as well so I can block them too.
Freedom of speech should not extend to foreign adversaries.
Hot take incoming…
Actually, I would argue the opposite.
Now that we have global access to each other, we should be speaking to each other, and finding common ground. We all share the same planet.
And when speaking to adversaries, we should consider what they’re saying for truthfulness or if it’s just an attack, before deciding to ignore/block it or not.
A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate. Their job is to attack a target. Supporting their right to attack is like supporting telemarketer scammers right to robocall everyone. You aren’t going to debate them out of scamming. They have a job to do.
A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate.
How do you know? It could be his/her day off.
They have a job to do.
A “foreign adversary” has many jobs, not all of them is to shape a narrative on the Internet.
Having said that, my use of the term was more generic in nature, as a country that has opposing motives/goals than we do (Iran, etc.).
We’re dancing close enough to the Armageddon line at this point as it is, its ok to pull back a bit and try peaceful means to resolve issues, instead of just ‘pushing the button’. Generally speaking, the more we talk, the less we fight.
You are ignoring the premise that these are identified foreign adversaries who are not looking for debate. There is no one to debate because the harassment if from fake accounts.
The targets are being doxed, dogpiled, and “told to kill themselves”.
these are identified foreign adversaries who are not looking for debate.
You are making an assumption (the italicized part).
It’s not an assumption. It is the basis of the article! Or do you actually support death threats?
Or do you actually support death threats?
Ah damn it! You’ve discovered my nefarious plan! Curses!
/s
Yes, but it makes a difference when that conversation is effectively controlled by whoever has the most bots and/or money. Especially when they’re using tactics like spam and just drowning out the conversation.
I mean, you’ve seen Hexbear respond to things.
Yes, but it makes a difference when that conversation is effectively controlled by whoever has the most bots and/or money. Especially when they’re using tactics like spam and just drowning out the conversation.
Very true, but that’s not the point being discussed, this is …
A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate. Their job is to attack a target.
Using misinformation on the Internet is a generic response to shape a false narrative, and not to attack a specific target (though that can be a side effect result).
And also, an adversary will use the Internet as you described, where the OP was (effectively) saying that they don’t use comments on forums on the Internet at all, but instead do physical attacks only.
This is the same problem with being tolerant with intolerants. While ideologically might make sense, it’s a losing battle that favors bad faith actors.
While ideologically might make sense, it’s a losing battle that favors bad faith actors.
That’s an assumption. You “trust but verify” (as a famous former president said), and if they’re not acting in good faith, then you move on from talking to other actions.
From the article…
But Linvill of Clemson University argues that the network uses a unique strategy of “flooding” conversations with so many comments that posts from genuine users receive less attention.
“They are operating thousands of accounts at a time on a given platform, often to drown out conversations, just with sheer volume of messaging,” Linvill said. “When we think of disinformation, we often think of pushing ideas on users and making ideas more salient, whereas what China is doing is the opposite. They are trying to remove conversations from social media.”
This is what’s always concerned me, more than anything else.
If you can’t shape the narrative, you might as well destroy the environment any other narrative that would come from it. An anti-control, basically.
As an analogy, a band at a party that plays it’s music so loud that no one can hear each other to be able to talk to each other.
If we don’t get these bots/shills under control then meaningful conversation will never happen again in any large scale, and any chance for peace at a species level goes with it.
The center will not hold.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if Lemmy is rife with these trolls. And I’m not just talking about the tankies.
I will never understand people who advocate for communism as opposed to democratic socialism. Every major country that has ever gone down the communist road has ended up a dictatorship. That’s not a bug of communism, it’s a feature. I get the criticism of capitalism, I really do, but we can enact socialist laws that rein in the excesses and extremes of capitalism without sacrificing our democracies for one-party governments.
HexBear, Lemmygrad, etc.
Bro its called lemmygrad look it up.
Weird way to say tiktok sucks but ok.
The article hypothesizes a network of bot accounts that spam targets across social media with invective. So its got nothing to do with TikTok (a company run out of Hong Kong and Singapore, with an American subnet that’s physically cut off from its Chinese-mainland counterpart). Even then, if you look at the actual details of the article…
When trolls disrupted an anti-communism Zoom event organized by New York-based activist Chen Pokong in January 2021, he had little doubt who was responsible. The trolls mocked participants and threatened that one victim would “die miserably.” Their conduct reminded Chen of repression by the government of China, where he spent nearly five years in prison for pro-democracy work.
He’s a major contributor to US propaganda networks across the South Pacific who attracted a bunch of harassing call-ins during a Zoom meeting. He then attempted to tie the calls back to a wave of FBI arrests of Chinese residents, accused of subversive activities aimed at American institutions.
There’s a certain irony in this story, because Chen Pokong himself spent two years in prison for championing anti-CCP protests in Guangzhou, following the Tienanmen protests in '89. So a guy who was once a passionate advocate for dissident expression and protest as an economics professor at Sun Yat-sen University is now a professor at Columbia University participating in mass arrests and imprisonments of US residents for dissident expression and protest.
American subnet that’s physically cut off from its Chinese-mainland counterpart
You believe that?
The Executive Branch, by way of the NSA, appears to believe it per the terms of Bytedance’s operations in the states.
Is there proof this is coming from the government? Why can’t this just be regular trolling?
A lot, likely most, of the trolling we seem to take as a necesserary consquence of social media seems to be influence operations from Russia and China (as the largest players, of course there are others).
That’s what strikes people the most when they go from X to Mastodon. 90% less followers, but more actual engagement and practically none of the harassment.
It seems most people simply don’t troll.
But where’s the proof that China is literally paying them to troll? Why can’t this just be organic trolling from Chinese people and pro-China sympathizers that legitimately just hate the West?
I mean if I thought I could harass politicians and get away with it…
Cognitive domain, it’s not a new concept.
It’s speculation, with circumstantial evidence at best.
Occums razor, evidence isn’t necessary.
That doesn’t mean what you think it means.
Occam’s razor, this is probably a coordinated troll group. Jumping from that to “and so this is an operation by the Chinese government” requires evidence, though, because Occam’s razor says this is a group of trolls who just do this for fun or as vigilantes.
A coordinated trolling campaign from channers or goons would look basically the same, just with different targets.
Naw man, everyone who can exercise influence by the methods we are broadly referencing is already doing it.
It is harder to explain why the powerful Chineese wouldn’t be doing it when every other relevant group is.
the US Department of Justice charged more than 30 Chinese officials earlier this year with running a sprawling disinformation operation that had targeted dissidents in the US
Charges aren’t convictions.
From the article:
Private researchers have tracked the network since its discovery more than four years ago, but only in recent months have federal prosecutors and Facebook’s parent company Meta publicly concluded that the operation has ties to Chinese police.
Meta announced in August it had taken down a cluster of nearly 8,000 accounts attributed to this group in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Google, which owns YouTube, told CNN it had shut down more than 100,000 associated accounts in recent years, while X, formerly known as Twitter, has blocked hundreds of thousands of China “state-backed” or “state-linked” accounts, according to company blogs.
I don’t trust Meta or Xitter about anything else, why would I trust them on this issue?
You stike me as the type of person who didn’t read the article and will refuse to read any follow up articles explaining the research.
I’m willing to believe this is coordinated, but again, no proof that this is some kind of paid government opp. In fact, it sounds almost indistinguishable from how 4chan used to operate (before it was invaded by boomers).
