• library_napper@monyet.cc
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    11 months ago

    Look, theres a lot of reasons this guy sucks.

    Increasing the costs of two things that are causing the most damange to our planet is not a reason to criticize him tho.

    • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      diapers bad

      Let me guess, you’ve never raised small children while also having to work full time?

      Washing, boiling and drying poopy diapers is something people had the time to do back when women were expected to be full-time housewives. Unless you’re proposing a drastic reduction of work hours for parents, something “just raise the price of everything” is the direct opposite of doing, you’re simply cheering for life becoming harder for ordinary working class people.

      You’re not going to avert climate change by making things suck more for working class people. All that is going to lead to is ecofascism. A socialist alternative to climate change has to offer actual justice and a better future than the present.

      • library_napper@monyet.cc
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        11 months ago

        I assume they mean disposable diapers. Cloth dipers prevent sanitation issues and solve the waste issue.

        But the problem I was referring-to is the catastrophic environmental damage caused by humans reproducing

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      sure it is. removing subsidies on commodities like gas doesn’t change the demand for gas, it just puts more of a burden on poor people, and doesn’t matter at all to the rich who use it most. that path will only lead to backlash against green policies in general, see the yellow vest protests. in order to reduce consumption you actually need to reduce demand by giving people sustainable alternatives.

      • Zippy@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        How the fuck do they afford subsidies? Why do you think they have been in this crisis for 30 years? It is a well educated and fairly modern society. But if you think socialist programs can be paid by borrowing money or printing money indefinitely and won’t result in cronic poor outcomes then you have little understanding of basic economics.

    • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      diapers bad

      this reads like the reddit mayobrain take where they pat themselves on the back for not eating octopus because it’s “smart”

      You’re not doing anything, you’re just stretching and reaching for a bright side to make yourself look good/feel good. Plastic literally-everything-fucking-else usage (ziploc bags, garbage bags, cups, spoons, forks, condiment packets, takeout containers, grocery bags which still exist despite having been banned) is so astronomically higher than diapers that it probably makes the CO2 differential between Africa and Europe look small

    • moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      11 months ago

      This guy isn’t a climate activist. It’s funny to see the price of fuel going up with a climate denier.

    • space_comrade [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Diapers are causing the most damage to the planet? You sure about that? Also the dude is a climate change denier so this isn’t even a “broken clock right twice a day” thing, it’s just purely accidental.

          • library_napper@monyet.cc
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            11 months ago

            No, its a fact. A policy can be fascist, not a fact.

            I dont think funding sex education, free contraceptivees, and free abortions services is fascist.

            • Orcocracy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              It is absolutely not a fact. There is nothing inherent about any human being that causes damage to the environment. It’s what human society as we organize it does, and a very small number of people do an incredibly outsized proportion of the damage. Focusing on things like birth control and overpopulation is a major part of ecofascist rhetoric. It is also very much about punishing a distant other because after all, if you really believed that all human births were inherently damaging to the environment, we wouldn’t be having this conversation as you would have already undone the damage caused by your own parents. But you haven’t, and nor should you for many good reasons! Those reasons also apply to everyone else too.

              • library_napper@monyet.cc
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                11 months ago

                It is a fact. And faciam would be a policy that is aimed at a specific group of people. Its not fascist to say all humans need to curb our reproduction rates to make a better life for future generations.

                • Orcocracy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  11 months ago

                  Ok, explain how it is true that every human purely by being born is equally culpable, and that human society isn’t at issue? And then you can explain why this doesn’t apply to you and your family.

                • space_comrade [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  11 months ago

                  Its not fascist to say all humans need to curb our reproduction rates to make a better life for future generations.

                  Yes it is, because the problem was never the total number of humans, the problem is our wasteful economic system. With a rational economic system we could easily sustain 10 billion people, we literally already produce food for that much, it just goes to waste.

                  You’re just so brainwashed by capitalist ideology you think the only solution to climate change is genocide, god forbid you try to envision a better economic system.

                • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  11 months ago

                  No, humans need to reorganize society before curbing anything

                  Overpopulation isn’t the driver of damage, overconsumption is

                  So much damage could be eliminated by

                  • allowing people to not mow their lawns/keep animals on them
                  • abolishing all dress codes (less need for AC in the summer)
                  • mandating green roofs
                  • public transit
                  • eliminating bullshit jobs
                  • requiring ease of repair

                  and so many other things, which wouldn’t even reduce people’s quality of life, but improve it (so long as these resources are shared equally). After that happens, yes you can talk about limiting births to a 2.0 fertility rate, with some leeway (like you get fewer privileges if you have more kids) but in general this planet could easily handle twice or even thrice the amount of humans with no environmental damage if the population was managed properly. Which of course means you don’t get your own personal carriage to take you to a Taylor Swift concert 50 miles away at the drop of a hat

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Tankies love it.

      GASOLINE was soooooo cheap with subsidies. It needs to quadruple again, at the very least. REMINDER THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY CRUDE!

      Fifteen years of left wing policies printing money have left the place in literal SHAMBLES.

      The official exchange rate was half of the real one.

      That is NOW being FIXED.

      If you do NOT KNOW ANYTHING, SHUT UP PLEASE (this is meant for the other commenters, not you)

      • nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        Finally someone that understands the real situation of my devastated homeland. Liberal or not (I don’t follow any political view, I hate them, I follow the common sense and empathy) this guy was the ONLY person with enough balls to change the devastating history and future of my loved country. I don’t know what’s going to happen, I not sure what this guy is going to do in the future, but at least he is doing something. To understand the level of crisis, that’s more than enough.

        • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          It ain’t gonna be easy but at least you’ll stop China from owning even more of your country… Good luck from ecuador! (I’m dutch, having invested in Ecuador since a decade ago, partly because they have usd

            • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              China isn’t coming in to do tiny scale tourism and paying locals a good wage. They do the opposite. Also the money I paid for the land is literally someone’s entire retirement fund. So shut up and go suck some tiny Chinese dick

          • nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            10 months ago

            This is what all people that can’t have a personal point of view of live tends to do. Make life simpler, choose one side or the other. You know, like religion. This is absolutely what people need to stop doing if you want to advance as a society and stop pushing other to do so. Like you.

  • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Who could’ve guessed that a rightwing government wouldn’t solve their issues (which were originally caused by rightwing policies)?

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      No, you are lying. Argentinas problems do not originate from right wing policies but from over protectionism

      • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        The implosion of Argentina is a very complex issue, but, essentially, the country allowed itself to be informally dollarized and ceded control over most of its industries to international (read corporativist) interests. When Perón restructured the country, it was done with a limited scope and with relatively short term changes, causing their economy to collapse again later (it doesn’t help that Brazil, a powerful potential ally, had undergone a rightwing U.S.-backed coup at the time). Then, the whole Falklands/Malvinas war happened, all rightwing bullshit, and the country still hasn’t bounced back.

  • LufyCZ@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Makes sense, if stuff is subsidized, the government has to pay for it. If the government doesn’t have money to pay for it, they’ll just print it out of thin air, devaluing the currency (and thus taxing the working class).

    There’s gonna be a lot of pain for Argentinians in the months and years to come, hopefully it’ll all be worth it…

      • Ddhuud@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        No, you’re right, let’s better keep our ruler class’ pockets full. That won’t bite us in the ass.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Then tax or seize their wealth. The loss of subsidies will specifically hurt the poorer much harder than the wealthy. The wealthy will just push their increased burden from loss of subsidies off onto the poor like they always do.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Brics hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Where nobody trusts each other enough to even talk about one single deal.

      China and India are almost at war. China will invade Russia as soon as they can to take back kamtsjatska (and they should) Etc

        • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          It’s clear you do not understand geo politics… Who is in the g7 with veto power? Which letters of brics?

          • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            The Security Council is made up of former Allied Powers, so the US, UK, France, Russia (successor to USSR), and PRC (successor to ROC). So 3 in the G7 and 2 in BRICS.

            I’m not sure what’s the point of this question.

            Now my turn: Name the bloc that just exceeded the G7 as the largest economies in the world.

            Here’s the answer:

            • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              Not even one brics country trusts one other brics country. Nuf said. Hahaha you lost Argentina?

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Diaper prices have doubled

    I hate to defend the libertarian, but nobody could have forseen the IDF suddenly buying up the world’s supply of diapers for their troops in Gaza.

    • AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Venezueal is a locked country that’s sanctioned to hell, Argentina is about to break incompetence records not ever seen before

    • Gosplan14_the_Third [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Venezuela’s economic crisis really began after oil prices fell drastically in 2014 and the west used Chavez’s death/Maduro’s election to increase pressure on the country via sanctions which for example made buying parts to maintain oil refineries difficult. Before that, it was doing about as well, or better (of course, failing to become independent from oil exports) compared to the other countries in Latin America.

      Argentina was already in a crisis for the last …20 years-ish, but this acceleration of the crisis happened in a week even as Milei backpedaled on some potentially damaging promises like cutting trade with China.

    • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Argentina isn’t sanctioned at all lmao. Thinking Venezuela is a failure is exactly what the US and its allies want you to think with the ridiculous amount of sanctions. Can’t have people see Socialism succeeding.

    • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      I lived in Argentina for five years. I’ve spent much time since then trying to convince people in the US that you have more rights and freedoms in Argentina. This might be changing now.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
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    11 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    Mr. Galli has been trying to cut back without making life worse for his two daughters, who are 6 years and 18 months old, including switching to a cheaper brand of diapers and racing to spend his Argentine pesos before their value disintegrates even further.

    “I prefer to tell you the uncomfortable truth rather than a comfortable lie,” he said in his inaugural address, adding this past week that he wanted to end the country’s “model of decline.”

    The economic turmoil paved the way to the presidency for Mr. Milei, a political outsider who had spent years as an economist and television pundit railing against what he called corrupt politicians who destroyed the economy, often for personal gain.

    The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.

    With the chronic high inflation, labor unions often negotiate large raises to try to keep up, yet those wage increases are quickly eaten up by sharp price hikes.

    “I always say that we are at university, and every day we sit for a difficult exam, every five minutes,” said Roberto Nicolás Ormeño, an owner of El Gauchito, a small empanada shop in downtown Buenos Aires.


    The original article contains 1,384 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 84%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Dude you are a moron if you think argentina was going well. They went from 4% poverty just 15 years ago to 35% (of population living on less as 5$/day) now. Thats LEFT WING GOVERNMENTS

  • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Libertarians around the world like AKTCHUALLY this is good for Argentinians! Nobody being able to afford goods and services is the cornerstone of a healthy society! I am very smart! smuglord

      • CareHare@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        If a coin gets devaluation, everything else to the coin becomes more expensive, so yes.

        For example: If 100 pesos was worth 1 euro, but through devaluation 200 pesos is now 1 euro, an Argentinian would have to pay up double the amount for the same thing in euro’s. So international import is hard because everything from all over the world just got so much more expensive, but export ‘should’ be easy, because all your domestic products are worth so much less to produce.

        I think fossil fuels and diapers just got even more expensive than that, but I don’t know why. (I’m bad at economics)

        • freebee@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          If fuel was subsidised, it could be because it gets hit twice: general rising (import) prices + subsidies cut, while some other products might only feel the general rising prices.

    • ram@feddit.nl
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      11 months ago

      Appling your political beliefs led to 60% child poverty. Explain that.

      • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        He can’t. That’s why he called his fellow tankies to downvote you instead!

      • Kepabar@startrek.website
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        11 months ago

        Why does everyone keep saying child poverty?

        Like, do children in other countries have some sort of massive wealth I’m not aware of?

        • freebee@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          To distinguish in their minds between people possessing free will and such, and people who don’t (yet). The first, the adult, is only a victim of their own poor life choices (in this individual responsibility-guilt view on society), their shitty life situation is supposedly their own fault. While children are ‘victims’. Thus advocating for equal chances rather than actual equality (which would involve shit like hard capping inheritance etc).

  • FuckyWucky [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.

    Yea devaluing peso from 360 for a dollar to 790 for a dollar instantly meanwhile is such a big brain play.

    there is no such thing as a ‘natural’ price. every price is artificial. OPEC is literally a cartel ffs. The concept of ‘artificial’ pricing is so libertarian brained.

    • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
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      11 months ago

      A Mileista friend of mine keep complaining about 140% of inflation a year for the past government, but now that yhey had like 300% in a week suddenly is ok and is just the true price of everything. Of course he dosen’t live in Argentina and dosen’t has his salary cut by a third in a week so it’s ok.

    • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      There’s a meaningful difference between a government arbitrarily mandating a price and buyers and sellers reaching an equilibrium, whatever you want to label it.

      You can say that price controls are worth it in some cases, and plenty of economists would agree with that, but they do come with consequences compared to raw market prices, and we shouldn’t ignore that, whatever label we want to use.

    • Veraxus@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Every time I see that phrase it makes my eye twitch. ALL pricing is artificial. Always. No exceptions.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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      11 months ago

      there is no such thing as a ‘natural’ price.

      Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales.

      That’s how markets actually look in the wild.

      And the natural price is the mathematical expectation of the price you get by bargaining.

      It’s very simple and in this particular case “mainstream” economics and libertarian economics get along pretty well.

      • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales

        imagine citing a fantasy trope to justify economic policy jfc

      • FuckyWucky [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        no. because the prices are influenced by external factors. i live in a country where markets like these exist and the price is not ‘natural’ in any way, in an idealized world maybe but not in reality.

        firstly, transporting any commodity (and inputs such as fertilizers) requires fuel and fuel prices aren’t determined by such idealized markets you mentioned, its determined by what cartels and oligopolies want it to be. you are also ignoring subsides, not just by the national governments but foreign governments. for example, developed countries provide a shit ton of subsidies which pull down prices in the international markets, without restrictions and tariffs these displace local production.

        i dont really get the middle eastern market you are mentioning because in reality there is absolutely price discrimination going on.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          11 months ago

          OK. Natural prices exist as an unreachable ideal point, but there are no absolutely natural prices in real world. I agree, and, BTW, no ancap would argue with that.

          • FuckyWucky [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            natural prices can only exist in an environment where every consumer and producer has all the information and is completely rational.

            if you are rich and a vegetable seller who typically charges $5 for a vegetable charges you $10 you are unlikely to bargain as you would consider it a waste of your time and energy and just buy it. is this person being rational by not wanting to waste their time or irrational because they aren’t squeezing more out of the seller.

            read this too

    • WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      I think in his bigbrain libertarian mind, the money market pricing of the peso to usd is what defined the value previously and he decided that the market’s pricing is not correct for that of the Argentinian currency.

      By devaluing the currency, it makes Argentinian labor and goods comparatively cheaper on the international market. This is a similar move to how China grew at such a tremendous rate in the 90’s - they intentionally devalued their currency in order to use foreign investment in their relatively cheap labor pool to fund the creation of their manufacturing industries.

      That solution probably won’t work here, though. Corporations are scared of investing in countries with unstable political leadership that performs brash actions like his. (Libertarian economics cannot account for such beliefs though since everyone must be a perfectly rational actor that chooses price above all). They are afraid that he may unilaterally nationalize certain industries and claim all assets for the state. Or he may rugpull outside investments and say that all profits must go to the state for some amount of time. Whatever flavor of stupid chainsaw wielding antics he comes up with one day is what they will see and use as a justifiable rationalization for not investing in the devalued market of Argentina.

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        I think in his bigbrain libertarian mind, the money market pricing of the peso to usd is what defined the value previously and he decided that the market’s pricing is not correct for that of the Argentinian currency.

        You’re half right here. The idea is that the black market Peso:USD price represents the actual real value of the Peso, while the government’s official rate was miles away from this and completely divorced from reality and only remotely sustainable by endless amounts of borrowing, price controls, and money printing, which just contributes to worsening the problem. The hope is that a necessary but painful adjustment to the actual economic reality will eventually provide the stability necessary for real growth.

        A smart government will know that, if you want to actually pull this kind of thing off, you need to do everything possible to make the transition as minimally painful as possible and do what you can to help protect the most vulnerable. We’ll see how Millei does, but I can’t say I’m exactly confident.

      • FuckyWucky [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        also China was handpicked by the American capitalists to be the manufacturing hub (cheap currency was a cherry on top). Countries recently forced to devalue currencies haven’t had a similar manufacturing boom especially because global economy is doing kinda shit.

        • huf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          also back then there was western industry that could be offshored to china. whose industry’s gonna move to argentina now? nobody else with a significant manufacturing sector is stupid enough to do it, after watching the west shoot itself in the foot. or so one would hope…