There is no safe way to do this - you should find a shelter - even if it’s shitty and religious.
Don’t be in New York.
If I were in this situation I think I would go for literally any option that doesn’t involve being imprisoned and freely abused by people. Wilderness survival would even be preferable. Surely most people being abused by our broken system have done at least some research and experimentation on this because I sure have. I might die but at least I’d die free.
Edit: didn’t see partially disabled. Ignore this comment.
How much money do you need to ensure that this doesn’t happen, and how would this equate to long-term security?
Outside of this, have you considered moving to a country with a viable welfare state that takes care of people with disabilities?
Outside of this, have you considered moving to a country with a viable welfare state that takes care of people with disabilities?
Ah yes, with all that money, paperwork, and jobs this person probably doesn’t have…
Other countries don’t want America’s destitute.
There isn’t enough information in OP’s response to say if they are working (but still struggling), or able to move on a young worker’s visa. Disabled can mean many things, and either I’ve missed context somewhere - or you’re making some huge assumptions on OP’s situation.
They literally say in the title “use prison for food and shelter as opposed to dying homeless in a gutter”.
This states, in not unclear terms, that the context here is being disabled and so poor that food and shelter are inaccessible.
I don’t know a number, nor would such a thing remain valid long term. I am not capable of full independence. Within a home, I can barely function on my own, but shopping is not possible. In my experience, all of the home delivery food options locally are scams where the store only sends the smallest, oldest, and lowest quality goods available on a shelf. This greatly increases the cost of already inflated comestibles. The variability is untenable for sufficient calories. I mostly eat one meal a day which I make every 8-10 days and eat the leftovers each day. I need a physical therapy routine that involves a bicycle, internet, and a phone to call for help if I get stranded on a bike somehow, which is super rare but happens once every 3-4 years. That is about it. I can’t travel at all. I don’t bother with a license. I could, but there is no point to the expense relative to my limitations. I’m on a slow decline, and will probably die early.
I’m not just in pain with my posture issues. Things inside my back move out of place and lock up in weird ways. I feel pain and issues in very unnatural ways. The places that I hurt feel like the interior forward side of my spine. It involves lots of little muscles and things that a person does not have conscious awareness of normally. It is almost like I am missing some kind of primary muscle and am using a bunch of smaller muscles to make up the difference. When I try and stay upright, those small muscles begin to fail in a cascading order and I have no backups left. I physically cannot remain sitting upright or standing at that point. I cannot do anything that involves remaining upright. If I stay in my controlled daily routine, I can lay propped up at nearly 45° for extended amounts of time, but any pushing will force me to lay flat to completely disengage the muscles. Even then, I’ll often have pain induced contractions and spasms for days to weeks if I push myself to remain upright for too long.
No country takes welfare refugees. Getting a visa involves proving you are not such a person, either through employment or static wealth.
I’m really sorry to hear this.
On your last point, this would largely depend on the country. I say this as someone that has worked with charities that cater to those that are less able, albeit usually with children or young adults that have moved with family. I know first-hand that it is possible - at least to the UK as I had worked on HCI for accessible online resources. Obviously, every case is unique, and it sounds like if you cannot travel this wouldn’t work for you. Most countries have specific rules for those with disabilities, and it would ultimately depend on if you’re alone or if you have family that can support you. It’s complex enough that you’d probably need to speak to a lawyer and not a random software engineer on Lemmy to see what your options are. Hell, if prison is a viable option for you, it may be worth seeing (free) legal advice for your options, or perhaps speaking to whoever your local representative is to see if they can support someone struggling this much.
It sucks to say, but the reason I mentioned an amount is because people set up GoFundMe for things that are less severe than your situation. If you are at a point where you’re seriously considering prison as a way to survive, I’m sure the fediverse could rally to help in some way, even if it’s just enough to ensure you can afford some more food for the next few months.
Shoplift food until you get caught and go to jail.
If you get caught without going to jail just keep shoplifting, at least you’ll always have food.
Just make sure to do it from Walmart or Lowblaw or some other government teet sucking price gouging corporation.
Ideally you want to go to a shelter first, because if a shelter is dangerous or unclean you can just leave (unlike jail). If you can’t find a shelter that has space for you, the next best thing is to sleep somewhere visible but somewhat sheltered and out of the way. Church doorways are ideal since if they find you they will usually offer you help rather than call the cops on you.
If none of those avenues are available to you, hit up your local library. If they don’t outright have a social worker on staff they’ll know how to put you in contact with one and help you with applying for benefits that can at least keep you fed, and will hopefully know how to most effectively get you in line for housing.
I’m too physically limited for range of mobility like this. I can’t seem to find anyone that can diagnose what is actually wrong with my spine. It is in a rare region and complex. Nothing major comes up in a radiologist’s MRI report, and neurosurgeons all come with a severe legislatively induced allergy to anything complicated to diagnose or work on. Of 13, only one spent the time to get into the weeds and it was only to make up a legally plausible narrative reason to claim I needed several fusions. They only took the time because they were about to lose their license for malpractice (something I had no clue about at the time). There is no such thing as a House like spinal doctor that will observationally diagnose a person regardless of their ability to treat or the risk involved. If they diagnose the issue they will face subpoenas and lots of time wasted to bureaucratic nonsense. The only options appear to be paying several thousand dollars for a shady lawyer that can bribe their way through the hoops of capitalist privateers or homelessness/suicide. This is Los Angeles where there are 100k homeless within 100 miles of where I lay. There are no available social workers, and every shelter is beyond full. Even the homeless that try to group to help each other are attacked like rabid feral animals by orders of the criminal Newsom. I need a more effective plan.
I’m sorry you’re going through all that, I’m living in LA and also disabled from spinal issues so I’ve experienced a lot of what you’re talking about as well. I’ve basically resigned myself to ‘smoke weed all the time’ being the extent of medical management of my pain, because doctors can’t/won’t do anything else for me without potentially making other problems worse. Back problems are awful and not having any concrete answers is just about as bad.
What part of LA are you in, roughly, if you’re OK sharing? If you’re able to ride public transit I’d be happy to search around to try to find more resources near you.
In addition to getting arrested being dangerous, sleeping on a jail cot is probably going to be absolutely godawful for your back, at least as bad as sleeping in a doorway. If you’re sleeping on the ground outside you at least have some control over your environment, compared to jail.
Thanks. I’m in south OC and not in any present danger or state of mind. I was just denied disability for the second time in 4 years and trying to talk myself into mental options available beyond lead or fentanyl as my ultimate outcome.
Holding posture for longer than an hour has cascading repercussions that last days to weeks. If I am upright, ie. sitting or standing, I am hurting. After around an hour of endurance, I will be unable to sleep well enough to recover. I barely ever sleep six hours a day at most and even that is rather low quality. I turn into a zombie if this lasts for more than a week or so. At that point I start showing signs of severe sleep deprivation and mental instability typical of any human in such a state. My entire life revolves around avoiding this state. I have plenty of money and security for now, but no way to effectively support myself long term. I’m well above average and mentally capable, but I go through periodic ups and downs that are unpredictable. Stupid minor things can injure me. The lows disconnect me from a professionally competent state of mind, and I’m generally irritable enough to not be very pleasant to be around in person. I want to be, and be myself, but the best way to put it is that my pain is constant and like living with a neighbour that always plays annoyingly loud music; EVERYTHING I do is forced to shout over that noise. It is like my internal voice is shouting over that noise and I must listen carefully to hear it. Sometimes it is just too noisy and hard to focus past it. When I am upright holding posture in any way, the noise is slowly getting louder. In physical terms, it feels like I give you a 1lb dumbbell and tell you to hold it at shoulder height with your arm fully extended–easy… at first…but try doing it for an hour. I’ve stubbornly pushed WAY past it to prove to myself it is not a mental thing. I was on the floor of a restaurant writhing in sharp shooting pain when a long time friend came to visit. I didn’t sleep for days and took almost 2 months to recover to the point of sleeping 6 hours for the first time.
I have nerve issues. My nerves just move around, usually due to an injury, but not always. Never had a doctor diagnose me properly. They wanted to fix my knee cap surgically or tell me that my pelvis moves. If I bend, or sleep, or lift the wrong way something moves. I can’t keep a bent position very long, and sometimes my knee just randomly hurts after walking. Sometimes I get shooting pains in my elbows.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but, finally I got word of a guy from mexico, he was really old and most likely dead by now, but he was known as a massage healer. He would zero in on the spot and just work his magic. After going back a few times, it would stay mostly stay in place. I did have to exercise a bit (walking was enough) so the muscles would keep the nerve in place, but I could do so pain free.
Either way, I got too lazy and of course the pain came back. I’ve been to a couple other people who claim to do what he did, but its never worked the same. Closest anyone ever got to keeping me pain free for any amount of time, was a sports masseuse.
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of someone in your area like that, but it might be worth a shot. He would tell stories of how he helped all sorts of people with all sorts of aliments. This guy was well known in the Hispanic community, and people would come from other states just to see him, for all sorts of issues. If someone like this exists around you, they should be too hard to find if you ask the right people. Worst that can happen is you get a massage.
I’m sorry dude, I’ve had a lot of family members go through the wringer trying to get disability as well. The one and only person I’ve ever known to get it first try was dying of cancer. The system is made to make people give up when they’re least able to fight it, it’s sickening.
I’m not familiar with any of OC so I’m not going to be any more helpful than a Google search on that front. But oh man, do I hear you on what the lack of sleep from pain does to you. I feel lucky I’m able to get 6-7 hours most nights, minus time spent waking up and trying to get comfortable. Thank fuck Ikea makes comparatively inexpensive foam mattresses. If you aren’t on gabapentin already, it helps with nerve pain and makes a decent sleep aid.
Are you familiar with the idea of pacing? It’s a strategy recommended for patients with ME/CFS to prevent triggering relapses, and I’ve found those ideas to be a useful way to manage chronic pain as well, on the preventative end.
Good luck man, I’ve been dealing with this shit for over half my life at this point. It sucks and it’s hard and it’s not fair and we might actually be living in one of the worst countries to be dealing with chronic medical issues. If you feel like wanting to scream and beat someone bloody over it, well, to me that’s pretty understandable.
My symptoms are similar to yours, if not quite so bad. I can’t walk more than about 50 yards, or stand for more than 10-15 minutes. I have tried for disability after my physical issues made me quit my job (after a couple of decades being a teacher for the same school district). I moved back in with my parents. Sucks to be in my 50s and stuck like this, but at least I have a roof over my head. I’m in north OC. There is zero help until you run out of all options and all money. It’s really fucked up. Good luck.
A shelter is normally dorm style sleeping arrangements with lunatics and meth heads sans food or anywhere to be during the day. Not all places will even offer food or medical even
Sounds like all jails barring a shitty yard to walk in for a bit each day. The food is also often spoiled or otherwise fucked up somehow. OP mentioned having a highly specific and hard to pin down spinal disability. Jails and prisons are much more likely to make that far worse.
Basically every problem people can think of will often apply to jail or prison and OP wont be able to leave when they want. Plus, when they get out, they’ll have new debts to pay, and a shiny new record to carry around for the rest of their lives.
Honestly though, I think OP is just baiting.
Not baiting. Just trying to convince myself that lead or fentanyl is not my only option within the decade and after my folks die. If those are my only options, it is hard to justify remaining a burden to them in the interm, and holding off the inevitable. This is the depressing reality. All those homeless people out there; the majority are in my shoes but just further down the timeline. This country has a policy of coerced suicide as a social safety net.
I was disabled by a terrible driver while riding a bicycle to work 2/26/14. I was the Buyer for a chain of bike shops, riding on a designated bike route, an amateur racer, on a $4500 demo bike, in a nice area, close to the beach. I’m you, on a bad day with some shit luck. This is your reality too. You are one bad day away from where I lay right now. You’re not smarter or better. You can not account for a driver that pulls directly into another SUV suddenly and sends the second car into you. No skill or intuition or caution can save you from such a circumstance. It doesn’t matter if you’re on a bicycle, in a car, walking, or even laying on a couch in your living room. This kind of event can still find you. When it does, in the USA, you will be pushed into homelessness, destitution, and an anonymous death on a cold rainy night in a gutter. This is the American standard of ethics and morality; yours and mine; our standard of ethics and morality.
“Bad things happen when good people do nothing.” -MLK
I did nothing in practice. So I am part of the problem. All I can do is tell you of the reality. I am you, after a single bad day at the hands of someone else. I don’t even remember the crash or anything due to my head injury. I woke up from a blank darkness suddenly with the last thing I remembered was riding and being in motion on a beautiful February morning.
The real answer that anyone can realistically give you is to fight for your life and dont give in to despair. You can have your time to despair of course, but dont let it swallow you. Thats pretty general and beyond that, it’ll be advice to seek out programs that help which is also general and not always helpful.
Your life is your own and flavored with so many variables that internet people can only help so much. I won’t give you advice, but I will tell you who I am and maybe that will help in some small way.
I am a double leg amputee. A hip disarticulation on the left (no leg at all) and an above knee amputation on the right. I was a 35 year old professional driver with a six month old daughter when the accident that took my legs happened to me. I had no fault in it and had no way of seeing it coming. It was something I was forced to deal with. I was in a coma for a month.
I woke up to endless pain, an ended relationship that was rocky anyway and a body so weak I had to start from scratch on even basic things like opening a can of soda. I was told I would have to use a power chair because of how damaged I was. I worked to be stronger than that and I succeeded, despite my endless phantom limb pain sometimes driving me insane. I use a manual chair by choice and I can do many other things I was told I wouldn’t be able to do again. Being legless and poor didn’t even stop me from meeting my wife, who is doing crafts with my daughter next to me.
It’s been a decade since the accident and my life is more solidly grounded now then it ever was when I was able bodied. I faced enormous pain and physical challenges and still do, but I’m glad of it. It was the forging fire that revealed who I am now.
There is a you that is looking back from a decade in the future. Who do they see in you now? The beginning of some maudlin end without even a fight, or the spark that eventually became your fire? If I can get through the shit, so can you.
totally doesnt answer the original question
That’s a question without an answer, because there is no safe way to get the LAPD to arrest you.
Kk
Of course there is, be White and Rich.
I’m white, so I won’t be murdered on sight as long as I arrive clean and clean cut. I move slowly and it is not difficult for any half intelligent person to see I’m in bad physical shape. Placing my hands behind my back may harm me considerably, but not as much as making me hold posture to sit in a car and get processed. I’d take the strongest pain meds I have in advance.
I’m white, so I won’t be murdered on sight
I don’t think this came out the way you envisioned it
I’ve heard of some people robbing a bank. The banks will generally give you the money if you threaten them and the camera will usually make it easy to identity you as a robber. You don’t even need a gun, you just have to threaten people.
There was someone years ago that used a bank/prison to get their cancer treated. I was thinking along these lines. Wear clothing that can not conceal anything, pass the teller a note, place a squirt gun on the counter, pass it to them, and then lie on the ground until police arrive.
I generally disagree with the entire plan, but if you’re going to do anything like this, there is a large difference between getting caught with a weapon and not. Maybe even a squirt gun. You do not need to have a weapon to get convicted of robbing a bank.
Any suggestion of a weapon makes the robbery charge “aggrevated”
Former bank employee here. You don’t need a squirt gun. Theoretically you can walk into a bank, tell the teller you’re robbing them and demand $1, then sit patiently on a bench and await police. The problem is that the judge at your sentencing will see that you are not truly a danger and give you probation. You will also have to pay fines.
Bear in mind that prison is not free. You are charged every day you are there, and will receive the minimum care to keep you alive.
The best option is to get a bus ticket to a part of the US with fewer homeless folks and good safety nets, then get a social worker. They will require that you don’t have any living family who can help, so bear that in mind.
+1. There are homeless shelters all over the US in every state, with varying services and capacity. Los Angeles is one of the worst cities for homeless services due to the weather keeping so many people there, it’s a much easier place for people to live outside year-round than Michigan or Texas, for example.
Would it be possible to volunteer some time to an organization like food not bombs I heard they were getting fines and arrested for distributing food. You could possibly secure some food, help the community and still potentially go to prison for not paying the bogus fine.
I think you’d definitely want a federal minimum security camp. Think more along the lines of mail fraud or some other white collar crime.
As a form of protest, you could try to trespass into the white house in an obvious way. That would definitely get you jail time and maybe a GoFundMe. I figure if you have a sign, they won’t shoot you.
What’s the safest way for peasants to rid themselves of a dictator who is killing their young men in a stupid vanity war?
Damn it’s sad that this post even exists. I hope things get better for you chief.
Jail can be incredibly expensive!
Exactly! Make sure it’s a felony otherwise you might be billed for every day you’re in jail. Plus, a good enough felony will get you to prison for a good long time. Basically, anything with “grand” in the front of it.
You can end up paying room and board, mandatory counseling, classes, drug tests, etc. Plus phone calls are outrageously expensive. It’s a total racket.
How does that work if you don’t have money or just don’t? I mean what are they going do? Put you in jail?
Take a piece of all future income until it’s paid off of you pass away. At least here you can personally bankrupt once in a life time and live on “lowest livable” amount of money for five years and then get the debts “forgiven” except those accrued during the five year period.
It’s a hassle to apply and get granted though, usually not the privacy invasion invasion a recently released care to subject to
Some joker robbed a US post office in my town a year or so ago. Federal felony.
Is that the guy who demanded $1 from the teller and then just sat down to wait for the cops?
If you are set on this, then do crimes that, if successful, would improve your life.
Steal billions of dollars from bad corporations. Steal food to live, trespass to be in shelter.
Personally, I would try to go to the cheapest town and get on benefits. Each state has a really cheap place to exist. There are usually no jobs, but often friendly people.
As someone from one of these towns let me offer you a super friendly go fuck yourself. Keep the homeless trash out of my town.
Remember lads if you see a sketch username saying inflammatory stuff, it’s bait.
“Except if it’s me or my family.”
Oh boo hoo someone fell in the no-empathy soup as a toddler
Do you mind answering why you feel this way about homeless people? You or I could be among them tomorrow for all we know, I would hope that someone wouldn’t feel that animosity towards me.
Let us know which town. Sounds like it’s already full of trash.
Yeah, rob a bank. If you get away with it, great. If you dont 5 years room and board.
Walk into a police station and state you just killed someone. They will lock you up, just be coy about who and where the body is and they will keep you locked up, maybe. If you want out just recant and say you just wanted some shelter. Without a body or a crime scene you will be free to go. IANAL or a cop so I could be 100% wrong in my scheme.
