Hey guys, it’s pretty much the tittle. I’ve been using Lineage with microg for a year now and despite using the majority of FOSS apps in my routine I still feel like I have to struggle to preserve my privacy and keep Google away from my data. Do you guys feel the same sometimes?
Every time I have to use a banking app is a pain …I kept changing banks to the ones who I could use with Magisk but every app update breaks my setup and I have to find a workaround or change to another app. I just quit using banking apps and passed them all to the wife.Now even home brokers have been blocking me asking to use a “official android version”
Today even a government app we must use to get access to services and information started complaining about my play store.
I self host a nextcloud service on my old desktop that serves as a server but every now and then the updates crash something. Sharing calendar and notes is too complicated if you don’t have a vps or a domain. I keep getting complains from the wife about how come I just don’t use google keep and Google drive anymore.
After a year I’m starting to think that maybe my data is not worth the hassle just to keep big tech out of my digital life… I guess Big Brother wins
What do you say? Am I too lazy or it is unpractical to stay away from big tech?
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I posted this before when another user posted a similar problem. Obviously yours is particular with google so some parts may not apply, but the gist is that you need to figure out your threat model.
You need to step back and review your threat model, then figure out the balance point between privacy and convenience/QoL. There is no such thing as complete privacy unless you go completely offline and live like a hermit. So something has to give, and your threat model will help you identify that. Figure out first what exactly you’re protecting, and from who. Then you can assess which ones you will deem non-negotiable when it comes to privacy, some where you can relax a bit in exchange for covenience (and this has levels as well), and lastly the ones where you have no choice because blocking something will make it cease to function. Having this threat model will also help you figure out what extent you would want to expose yourself depending on the service. Don’t put everything into the same tier because that will be impossible. Good luck.
I remember this comment. Best advice I’ve seen on this sub.
Thanks friend!
Dont root your phone
It breaks the security model. Instead flash a ROM that is AOSP based
I’m on unrooted lineage with mindthegapps / Google play services with my Google Services Framework ID registered with Google, but I still have to make 3 attempts to log in to my bank with the first 2 attempts always giving a vague error like “we’re not sure why we couldn’t connect”, similar with fidelity. Using a password manager so I’m entering the same credentials every time.
(Edit: in the case of fidelity, instead of faking a connection issue it tells me my account is blocked and to call support to unblock it - that’s also fake because I called once and they said my account wasn’t locked and trying to log in a second time always works)
My understanding is that it’s impossible to pass strong integrity unless you’re using the stock unmodified rom with the bootloader locked.
I changed banks last week and the new bank (Aspiration) logs in fine the first time every time.
It sounds like the situation is better with graphene but I find it a lot easier to switch banks than roms.
The level of comfort, or rather lack thereof, you’re fine with dictates how you’ll use your devices. Privacy is mandatory to me, so every app that refuses to work with my setup gets the boot. Banking is done in the browser with a separate PIN device. The moment the device gets discontinued I’ll go back to paper or phone like an old person. FOSS apps are FOSS and will break because they don’t have millions of ad money to fund development. I know that and learned to accept that fixing setups is part of my digital life. That’s just one end of the spectrum though. Everyone needs to find their balance with privacy to avoid getting fed up by it.
I’m using GrapheneOS, and suprising amount of apps (including my bank app) works without Google Services. And if there’s something I need for work that doesn’t work without them, I have another profile with sandboxed Google play (which isn’t enabled on my main profile), and use the app there, where it’s separated from all of my data. No need to root my phone, and so far it worked great.
As for sharing your Nextcloud stuff, what I did was for services that need to be public, I just got a cheap (like, few dollars per year) domain and use Cloudflare Tunnel (Cloudflared). It handles all port forwarding for you, and you don’t have to make anything public on your router - just install cloudflared on the server and have it forward the port you want to your domain. You can also set up geoblocking and ACL pretty easily, so it’s perfect for that.
I’ve however recently moved to using ZeroTier, because it has a nice mobile VPN app, so I just run zerotier (it’s literally two commands to install and join a network) on my server, and if I need to access something there I just launch it on my phone and connect through ZeroTier. This, however, won’t help if you want to share stuff from your server with others, since they’d have to install a ZeroTier client and also join your network. For Jellyfin, Nextcloud and Sunshine, though, it’s amazing.
And if that still feels like too much hassle for you, I’d recommend looking into Proton Drive. I’d consider that one of the best hassle-free alternatives to GDrive, which launched recently.
Gonna look the cloudflare thibg. Thanks
Cloudflare is not at all sensible from a privacy standpoint. Cloudflare is a bigger privacy offender than Google and far more detrimental to our rights.
https://git.kescher.at/dCF/deCloudflare/src/branch/master/subfiles/rapsheet.cloudflare.md
Reverse proxying your website through Cloudflare is actually an attack on privacy. You make yourself part of the problem by arbitrarily blocking several demographics of people from your website including Tor and VPN users (people doing their part to retain privacy).
If you’re not completely giving up on privacy I would avoid cloudflare. I just run an always-on wireguard tunnel that routes back to my home network from my wife’s and my phones, and that kills like 3 birds with one stone (phone traffic is encrypted and hidden from my carrier, home server is accessible, and ads are blocked via DNS).
It seems like a lot of things you want to do on your phone are unnecessary. Why not just use the banking websites in your browser at home? Why not just keep a paper calendar?
I’m wondering this too. Does your bank not have a website OP? Webapps are the way to go for tracker heavy apps if possible
All the banks I have an account need an app in order to login. I’ve tried to use them using the browser but they all request you to use their app as 2fa. So the app doesn’t work and I just can’t do shit using only my browser.
A paper calendar is very inconvenient. I have found the Nextcloud calendar to be much more useful. I can accept invites and send out invites
Do what your comfortable with that doesn’t impede on your life. i.e. you don’t need to dig a moat and put up barbed wire around your house, you can just close the curtains at night as a starting point.
FWIW Banking apps have always worked for me on grapheneos without any extra work.
Make a list of what data is important to you, and who has access to it, and if your comfortable with it. If not use privacy guides to select a new provider
- Emails - Gmail -> something else?
- Location - Google, Cell phone company -> (your degoogled so google shouldn’t have this)
- Search - Google -> ddg?
- Photos ?
etc, just do things that arn’t too much trouble and increase your privacy
I think the best thing for cases like this is to see if the applications you want to use allow you to do what you want to do just using the web browser. Oftentimes there’s a progressive web act that will function well enough, or the desktop site can be accessed on mobile with enough function to make it through.
Can you do your banking through their website? Can that government app be used similarly through desktop?
I’ve tried and could not use none of them without the website requesting the app to login or to verify the transactions
Try using the “Desktop site” feature of Firefox.
instead of changing banks, change the phone and try grapheneos’s google sandbox thing. i myself already gave up, have lineage and gapps installed, but i do block most of analitics with blokada. i also try to use foss as much as possible, but sometimes theres simply no alternative. in the end of the day, you need to reconsider if you really want to go with the full front assault, or just block most of the stuff.
I’m planning to buy a new phone in the next year or so and looks like pixel is a great option because of graphene. I wish it ran on my poco x3.
Graphene is in an interesting position as far as being the only majorly secure OS out of the box. So don’t give up until you try it even on a 200 dollar Pixel 6 or a Pro version if you like larger screens.
Use a second profile for all your normie proprietary apps and google services. Then use your main profile for FOSS and privacy outside of work things. Easy to setup and install. No tweaking really out of the box. I’ve never had a major broken component even with banking apps. Its kinda like the shit just works. I hate its on pixel devices but I Understand why having a secure chipset. The absolutely only complaint I could muster with Gos is needing location to be inside main and secondary profile at the same time Google maps I don’t know why. Beyond that. Its been flawless.
Edit: Don’t let other persuade you down the rabbit hole of full self hosting and going crazy micromanaging things for perfection. It’ll feel like a second job and lead to what you have which is fatigue of something you genuinely care about and rightfully so. If you need help once your on Gos. Message me. There needs to be less friction to achieve tasks not more or people just won’t do it.
if you have x3 pro, you could also try divetos. its a linageos fork with more security. if you have the nfc, then you are out of luck.
Everyone is giving solid advice.
It is a trade off as google controls so much.
I self host a nextcloud service on my old desktop that serves as a server but every now and then the updates crash something. Sharing calendar and notes is too complicated if you don’t have a vps or a domain.
Self hosting is a pain imo. You can pay a small cloud provider with nextcloud. There is a middle ground between big tech and self hosting.
@fernandu00 I am out of #Google myself and my whole family too. I managed to replace all Google stuff with FOSS apps. I have a separate tablet for banking only which has all the usual Google setup but I use it like once a week to pay bills. For small daily banking I use Revolut.com - their app is working fine with all my degoogled devices - both rooted and unrooted. @protonprivacy services replace most of #Google apps that people use and the rest you can find on https://f-droid.org
Yeah I intend to buy a cheap android phone just to do banking …I guess that’s the easiest way to deal with this
I have a powerful homelab and a phone with zero proprietary software. There are some sacrifices but ever since I let go of dependence on proprietary software I am much happier.
For banking, can you use a browser instead of the app?
I do very little banking through my phone - what’s there to do?
There are some browsers that support sites-as-an-app, such as Cromite and Hermit, that may solve this issue.
Unfortunately some financial apps are “app or nothing”.
And a lot of others require a special app for 2fa. I for example still need a app when using the website.
I found that having a second phone (just my old phone) as a dedicated banking device. How often do you need to initiate a bank-transfer while on the go anyway?
Just wondering if it’s that way for OP’s bank.
I don’t really use the app or the website (maybe to check a balance), so I have no idea what uses there are. Frankly I wouldn’t have banking at all if I could avoid those bastards.
This is why I have a degoogled phone and a googled phone. I carry them both around with me but any bank app, or other data harvesting app or necessity goes through that phone,so I may keep the majority of my stuff clean and free (as much as I can within my capabilities)
