yeah its a tough decision. get killed in war or get killed by invaders. Do you fight or run when faced with invasion? I think much will depend on if you have wives or children but even single men have mothers and nieces and nephews. Ultimately some will not have such attachments or maybe already lost them to missiles or drones.
For two years the dominant propaganda has been : Russia is losing.
Suddenly, we are expected to believe this?
? How is that even related? Wether russia wins or loses, a lot of people (both in ukraine and in russia) dont want to participate in a war, so will try to fuck off to somewhere else.
Tough decisions all around. The army needs people for defense and they seem to only be able to get men (are women being conscribed?). But men also want to live. Their deaths would be less certain on the front lines if NATO countries hadn’t dragged their feet for a decade.
Yeah, NATO letting this linger and dragging their feet for no reason has resulted in so much extra suffering, it’s the classic case of trying to appease people with a one second single issue attention span while dealing with conflicts that span decades and involve thousands of complex elements.
And of course trying to appease people that literally just want to see the world fall into chaos because order and the long path to social progress aren’t as romantic and fun as playing the heroic idealist. So many people suffer because so few are willing to actually engage with reality.
The least ghoulish liberal has logged on everybody.
LOL. What are you talking about? Is this an LLM? That response made no sense.
If you can’t understand how ghoulish it is for the western backed regime in Ukraine to force people into fighting against their will, what else is there to say to you.
What is with the young man who had to defend the motherland in the great patriotic war?
Majority of Ukrainians fought with the Red Army against the fascists during the Great Patriotic War. People of USSR understood that fascists represented an existential threat to them, and that’s why they fought.
Noooooo, you don’t understand, wholesome big chungus Ukraine is fighting off those barbaric orcs. We have to send all of the Ukrainian men onto the meat grinder or else
civilizationthe west will fall!Because they’d be so much better if their country gets occupied and they’re forced to fight in putins next war of aggression to try and conjure yet more people to keep in poverty and ignorance with the rest of the Russian empire.
You people with your fantasy about the evil west are laughable when the alternative is literally Russia - if the west did one thing Russia does then you’d be using that in every anti western screed you rattle off.
People who still can’t understand that Russia won the war are not capable of rational thought, and are not worth trying to have a discussion with.
Ah ‘we won so why are they still fighting?’ Yes that’s not how reality works.
What you mean is ‘Why won’t Europe and the US just let the psychopath dictator invade anyone he wants and lower the standard of living for yet more of the world?’ But the answer to that is too obvious so you know you’d look silly saying it.
The fact that the fighting is still going on doesn’t change the fact that the ultimate outcome of the war is now obvious to anybody with a functioning brain. Eventually, even the most dim witted westerners will have to start grappling with reality.
Oh yeah, to forcefully kidnap people from the streets/homes, put them into vans and send them to die a horrible death or not, a truly tough decision we got here…
And please don’t forget, those people for whom this is a hard decision are the good guys trying to save the world, while those who see this as totally not fucking okay are fascists, Russian bots, “want to take our freedom away and kill us”, etc.Funny you should mention fascists.
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
Thanks for all the links.
Being called fascist (which happens a lot on Lemmy for some reason) when speaking out against Ukrainian government which ticks almost all the boxes from the fascism definition on the wikipedia (dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy), is a brand new level of irony… :/
Goshdarnit, I commented on a lemmy.ml post. My bad. Let me exit this echo chamber.
I know, right?
That damn lemmy.ml echo chamber where people continue parroting this extremist narration that it is not okay to murder people…
Let’s get out of here, and head to something like lemmy.world where we can celebrate hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians getting murdered, cheer for continuation of war and call everyone who disagrees with us fascists!The dumbest take possible of what I said.
But men also want to live.
we can celebrate hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians getting murdered
JFC, no wonder people block lemmy.ml users.
That damn lemmy.ml echo chamber where people continue parroting this extremist narration that it is not okay to murder people…
So your solution is to lets Russia invade and not resist. I’m sure nobody will be murdered or end up a gulag. No. People will just defenestrate themselves or die of natural causes with 2 shots to the back of the head. That’s what double action means, right?
Holy moly. It’s as if you didn’t have a slice of russian disinformation, you had the whole pie.
So your solution is to lets Russia invade and not resist.
My solution is to stop murdering people and let them decide for themselves.
I’m sure nobody will be murdered or end up a gulag. No. People will just defenestrate themselves or die of natural causes with 2 shots to the back of the head. That’s what double action means, right?
Well, if you are so sure in what you’re saying, then there’s definitely no reason to continue kidnapping people and sending them to die, they will all volunteer to fight because of the awful things that you’ve mentioned that await them if Russia wins, right?
Holy moly. It’s as if you didn’t have a slice of russian disinformation, you had the whole pie.
Please quote me saying one thing that is not true. Just one.
So your solution is to lets Russia invade and not resist. I’m sure nobody will be murdered or end up a gulag. No. People will just defenestrate themselves or die of natural causes with 2 shots to the back of the head. That’s what double action means, right?
Ah yes, your fascist friends are going to end up in prison.
Ita crazy how most every post I come across expecting to see people fighting underneath it is posted by this person. It seems they’re only here to cause unrest.
If you prefer to see posts and comments which only regurgitate one single opinion, literally all other social networks are better at that. Lemmy is not a good pick for the echo chambers. Reddit for example seems to have single orthodoxy on the Ukraine war.
Ok yeah but this dudes whole gimmick is posting unpopular opinions without ever seeing the other side. I get having a differing opinion here and there but when you’re whole personality is just ‘what everyone else thinks is wrong’ is crazy to me. I genuinely have never seen this person post something the majority agrees with.
Granted I’ve never just went through his profile, but when I go through my feed and see a post that’s trying to stir up people, 90% of the time it’s Y
I agree that these opinions seem unpopular. But I am not sure if they are. Most people oppose war and even in the Ukrainian war, they support some realistic way of stopping it. Its the job of popular media to make sure that these people feel alone in their opinion and that they believe that most hate the other side. Then there seems to be popular support and funding of the war effort. Good read that you might already know is Manufacturing consent by Noam Chomsky. The sole reason I’m on lemmy is because it still has some realistic community, unlike other sites which just have bots spamming the ‘popular’ opinion. For example where I’m from the correct opinion is to support Israel in all its efforts against Gaza. If one were to read the comments on common articles, which are trying to apologize or shift the blame to others for Israeli war crimes, he would find very strong hate of the clear victims. Yet Ukrainians, all not just the victims, have almost ideological support here. Again something found in Chomskys book regarding unworthy victims.
What counts as a “majority?” If you mean the majority of sh.itjust.works users, then no, Communist opinions aren’t going to be popular. Lemmy.world? No. Outside of instances that are generally right-leaning? Depends, but usually more people agree than not.
Yogthos is a Communist that tends to post Agitprop, yes. The goal isn’t the unrest, but the outcome of that unrest.
Chsos where fascist dictators rule? That sounds even worse tbh.
I said “Communist,” not “fascist.”
Yes people often call themselves communist or similar while supporting fascist dictatorships and the like, makes it easier to say.
Do they? Outside of MAGA Communists and PatSocs, I don’t believe there are many, if any, Communists supporting fascist dictatorships. Historically, it’s the opposite, Communists have gone to war with fascists.
Edit: oh, you’re projecting, you’re a fascist:
“I hope hamas can be defeated and the people of Palestine can be free from their oppression and propaganda. I was brought up being told it’s the job of the strong to protect the weak and we can’t fool ourselves into being tolerant to the intolerant. Its hard making difficult choices especially against enemies who use human shields and lies but the IDF are making the area a better place so history will respect them regardless of what agents and fools say now.”
Supporting the genocide of 180,000 Palestinians and saying that genocide is “making Palestine a better place” is absolutely monstrous. Checks out for a sh.itjust.works user though.
I think you genuinely believe this person is a honest hearted communist hoping for a better world for the working people, that’s hilarious and kinda cute.
And yeah of course you would take the most basic and naively idealistic understand of the Middle East situation and push it like there’s no other possible understanding. That’s when the cuteness wears off and people start to roll their eyes
I think you genuinely believe this person is a honest hearted communist hoping for a better world for the working people, that’s hilarious and kinda cute.
OP is a Marxist, and has consistently demonstrated Marxist analysis and advocacy for Marxism.
And yeah of course you would take the most basic and naively idealistic understand of the Middle East situation and push it like there’s no other possible understanding. That’s when the cuteness wears off and people start to roll their eyes
The Genocide of Palestinians by the fascist IDF has a long and complicated history, yes. Your open support for fascism and genocide, and pushing propaganda like the “Human Shields” narrative to justify the mass slaughterings and tortures of Palestinian civilians is about as on-the-nose as you can get. Assuming me calling you out for your vocal and enthusiastic support for genocide means I am simply “naiive” and oversimplifying a complex situation when 180,000 Palestinians lay dead from the forces you support is dodging and cowardice.
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Go sign up for the foreign legion instead of cheering for other people to die.
Removed by mod
You’re the one who thinks people should die for the western backed regime in Ukraine. So put your money where your mouth is.
And another good guy advocating for murdering innocent people… :/
This is what people like @poVoq@slrpnk.net are cheering on.
They died like human beings, doing something for themselves, instead of dying like pigs for someone else’s money.
It’s horrifying when you realize a modern day country has legit thrown out an entire generation of their youth to the wolves to be eaten or die as they flee at the behest of western capital, freakin’ WWI all over again with empty towns that no one is coming to return to.
Peace with no occupation would be ideal.
