It’s sensible for businesses to shift from physical media sales. Per CNBC’s calculations, DVD sales fell over 86 percent between 2008 and 2019. Research from the Motion Picture Association in 2021 found that physical media represented 8 percent of the home/mobile entertainment market in the US, falling behind digital (80 percent) and theatrical (12 percent).
But as physical media gets less lucrative and the shuttering of businesses makes optical discs harder to find, the streaming services that largely replaced them are getting aggravating and unreliable. And with the streaming industry becoming more competitive and profit-hungry than ever, you never know if the movie/show that most attracted you to a streaming service will still be available when you finally get a chance to sit down and watch. Even paid-for online libraries that were marketed as available “forever” have been ripped away from customers.
When someone buys or rents a DVD, they know exactly what content they’re paying for and for how long they’ll have it (assuming they take care of the physical media). They can also watch the content if the Internet goes out and be certain that they’re getting uncompressed 4K resolution. DVD viewers are also less likely to be bombarded with ads whenever they pause and can get around an ad-riddled smart TV home screen (nothing’s perfect; some DVDs have unskippable commercials).
yall paying for movies?
Some people pay in order to be able to anonymously download movies. (Totally not me though, as that’s illegal.)
Yup, but only physical media, not streaming services or anything with online DRM. If I can’t play their media offline legally, I’ll find other ways of getting that data to work offline.
I have no issues paying for movies, as long as they’re actually mine. I have major issues with paying for a limited license to stream a movie, until the streaming service decides to end their contract and the streaming rights get clawed back without a refund. If purchasing isn’t owning, then piracy isn’t theft.
I will buy 4k blue rays of movies I like but if that isn’t available, eat ass and get fucked I’ll steal your shit and you get nothing.
You had me at eat ass
I recently got the Twister 4K steelbook. It’s my favorite movie.
nope
dvds aren’t dying; the media companies who own the rights to dvds and blurays are killing them
what’s the difference?
malicious intent
nothing; just gotta point out that media companies are doing everything they can to stop us from owning our own media.
There’s still the public library.
For now.
Gotta cut off any avenue of escape for streamers sick of not owning what they pay for.
My favorite part about DVDs is how sometimes they look just fine but the video doesn’t actually play. I got a DVD from the library recently that the video stopped 10 minutes in the first episode and you couldn’t even play or rip past that point either.
Physical media still really sucks in a lot of ways.
DVD is better than Blu-ray in that regard - I’ve ripped DVDs that look like they fell off a truck and got run over multiple times and had no problem, meanwhile about 1 out of 5 Blu-rays I got from Netflix would have problems despite looking pristine. It has to do with the data density, Blu-ray packs so much more in the same amount of space, one microscopic scratch wipes out so much data…
Of course some DVDs suffer from bad materials. I was re-ripping my collection recently, and I have a few that have sat in a closet untouched for years, not a scratch on them, but the drive won’t even recognize there’s a disc. Probably oxidation of the reflective layer.
This is what’s made me a little more okay with digital video games. The chance that some bizarre event will lead to that game becoming unplayable is non-zero. But, that’s the case for physical game discs as well.
I’m upset at events like The Crew’s removal and hope for more laws to make such things unlikely. Still, I’m generally accepting that by and large, publishers don’t try to delete or remove access to people’s games. There’s no specific motivation in it for that particular evil.
Movies, however, I’m reticent. I liked being able to buy a few cheap movies on digital services, but Sony’s mass deletion of their library makes me hesitant to continue there.
Likewise, I’m far less hesitant to accept buying digital console games than video because I generally can expect that once I download a game on my one device that I’ll pull out the same device whenever I want to play it and it’ll keep working when offline and even after the servers are gone, until the hardware fails. Modern games’ physical releases rely so heavily on updates and DLC that the cart/disc you get isn’t complete anyway; buying physical effectively becomes a digital game with an extra point of failure (and partial resellability). PC gaming complicates things but at least some games are available completely DRM-free there.
With video content sold online, streaming directly from some server is always the focus. As soon as the server disconnects you become unable to watch by default. Even if some service lets you pre-download within its app and watch offline (which probably won’t work indefinitely without checkins anyway), that’ll defeat the portability expectations for watching your videos on any device interchangeably.
Blu-ray video isn’t ideal considering you cannot watch it on a phone, tablet, or linux system without cracking its DRM, but that’s still way better for lasting access than anything else major movie/TV studios are willing to let consumers access without piracy.
Also, you don’t have to worry about some random service shutting down. There are so many online dependencies with modern consoles that of the service shuts down, you gave an unusable brick, regardless whether you possess the bits they sold you
Unskippable commercials on DVD? What did I miss?
Oh yeah 100%. Old DVDs had ads that were unskippable, which played before you got to the DVD’s home menu. Usually just ads for other movies that were coming up around the same time the DVD landed. You could usually get around them by hitting Stop twice and then Play to get to the main DVD menu, but not always.
UNLESS you buy the dvd or Blu-ray from the UK. I found that out when I bought the UK version of a movie and when I put the disc in… The movie just fucking started. No earnings, no ads, no features, no menu. Just… Movie.
Wow, I don’t even remember that. I’ve been playing DVDs on a computer basically forever, which rarely obeyed such restrictions…
I remember this as a kid, where (usually a Disney DVD) would have 2x 3 minute trailers, before you even got to the main menu, for other movies and if you tried to hit Next Chapter it would just spit back “Unable to do this at this time”.
Sometimes you might bypass it by hitting Root Menu if your DVD player remote had it, but yes very frustrating.
If you had unskippable commercials on dvds, you probably missed pirated dvd stores like this one:
Are the numbers about DVD sales strictly about DVD sales or do they include all optical formats (Blu-ray/UltraHD Blu-ray)? Because unless I’m getting an old TV show that was only ever SD, my preference is to get a Blu-ray, not a DVD. I suppose if I still saw the super cheap ($3-5) DVDs in the grocery store for something I like but not enough to buy normally (this is how I bought Brewster’s Millions) then I might buy a DVD, but otherwise I at least want HD quality.
Isn’t Blu Ray dead?
No, bluray is 1080p (or 2160p if UHD Bluray) while DVDs are 576p-720p (what looks really shitty on a 4K TV). I only buy BDs and UHD BDs these days
while DVDs are 576p-720p
576p is the absolute maximum. Most DVDs are actually 480p.
I am pretty sure 1080p video will fit on DVD just fine if formatted as regular data disc. But I am not sure if H.264 or anything newer is supported, and video may not have the highest quality, but still better than 720p I guess.
That’s true, but the DVD-Video standard only supports MPEG-2 at 720x576 (PAL), or 720x480 (NTSC).
Sure, you can put a 1080p AVC-encoded video on a DVD formatted as a data disc, but it won’t play on a DVD player.
Huh. I had a vague memory that my DVD player allowed regular movie files to be played, but maybe my memory is just bad.
That would be very device-specific, if they wanted to add additional support for data discs. It would be outside the scope of the actual DVD-video playback functionality.
No.
You’re correct. They are only killing the consumer recordable media. I thought it was all Blu Ray
I think it’s only Sony’s first-party discs, too. So someone else could theoretically manufacture them. I don’t know if anyone else does, though.
There are plenty others who do.
When someone buys or rents a DVD, they […] can also watch the content if the Internet goes out and be certain that they’re getting uncompressed 4K resolution.
I’m sorry, is this a special version of DVD that can store 4K video? Uncompressed?
They’re talking about 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, which was introduced in 2016. The video is still compressed, but it’s still much higher quality than DVD and Blu-ray, and can hold 60-100 GB of data.
But they wrote “DVD”. I’m just nitpicking.
Ah, gotcha. It’s annoying when people use “DVD” as a catch-all term for all optical media.
It is 😅 Words have meaning!
Exactly. I can’t play Bluray disks in my DVD player. That’s a pretty important distinction.
At the very least, it’s still (generally speaking) higher quality video than streaming. It’s not uncompressed, though.
Surely not? DVD is 576p/i (PAL) and 480p/i 💀. Not even 720p. 720p looks like garbage on a 4K display IMO. I really hope you are getting higher resolution from your streaming services than that, otherwise I think you’re getting ripped off. (Streaming services are a ripoff to me regardless, but that’s another point.)
Others replying to the comment included Blu-ray, so I did, too. I assumed it was a given to include that since others had already brought it up.
No harm done. I’m mostly just being facetious. 😅❤️
No, you’re absolutely correct. Many people just don’t realize how crappy the resolution is on DVD, and I would hate for people to buy some and be surprised at how bad it looks.
I ripped all of my DVDs because I have them, and combined they’re something like the size of one or two 4k Blurays. So don’t go out and buy a bunch of old DVDs if Blurays are an option for you.
combined they’re something like the size of one or two 4k Blurays
Ha! That’s pretty funny to me.
I think that would be a fun hobby for me, if I had the time for it. To gather a sizable blu-ray collection, and rip into a smaller size media library. There’s so much to get into though, with all the codec options and settings and quantizing and shit. Mind-boggling when you haven’t even started researching yet. 😅
Well, just start somewhere and optimize as you go. I’ve got an 8TB NAS (two 8TB drives in mirror), and it’s not even halfway full, despite having a ton of DVDs and Bluray rips. I haven’t bought many Blurays lately bags because Netflix was good enough, but I’m getting back into it.
DVD max quality is 480p, and it takes up ~2GB for longer movies at super quality m4v format with Handbrake (the first Hobbit movie was 2.5GB). 1080p Bluray rips are like 10x that.
I accidentally ripped a few with the wrong settings, but it’s easy to redo it. So just get started, but make sure you have plenty of disk space. I use Jellyfin for watching on my TV and it works pretty well and was pretty easy to set up.
It’s easy as long as you’re okay with only being able to fit probably 1-2 minutes of video, the resulting disk not playing in any consumer player ever, and probably not even being capable of real time playback on a powerful PC with a fast drive.
deleted by creator
Exactly. And a regular DVD caps at 4.7 GB if I’m not mistaken. Not even close.
That’s just single layer - dual layer is something like 8.4 if memory serves (which it often doesn’t…)
At first I was cool with buying digital copies of movies from streaming services, when they first offered them. Until my neighbor apparently got his account suspended and had absolutely no access to all the digital copies of movies he had bought. I then realized… it’s true, we’re entering an age of, “you will own NOTHING and be happy”.
So I rather support pirates.
Yo ho!
a Concidence I"m sure…
It’s sensible for businesses to shift from physical media sales.
Sensible to who?
sensible for businesses
Says so right in your quote
For the businesses.
And customers. Almost everyone prefers to consume media in a simple way and that is streaming. Almost no one will go back to physical media. If streaming becomes absolutely unbearable, people would turn to digital downloads.
Yes, the costs to actually make and distribute a physical disc are relatively low on a unit basis, but the cost of distributing a digital copy online make physical media look astronomical.
Even outside of cost, the level of control they can exert is vastly higher than any physical media.
Being able to prevent someone from reselling the movie or game they bought is very appealing to rights holders.
The MBAs whose sole purpose on earth it is to inflate margins over and over and over again
For all the reality of “streaming rights are a shitshow”, what percentage of the population do you think is willing to buy physical movies?
Because I don’t think it’s all that high.
Someone go make Steam for videos and I’ll pay for media again. My stipulations are:
- Once I buy it, it’s mine forever (otherwise piracy is better)
- The file is high quality, DRM free, and in a selection of standard formats (otherwise piracy is better)
- I can redownload it from the service at any time (otherwise piracy is better)
- I can get everything I want to watch (otherwise piracy is better)
Steam isn’t DRM free, though. Most games use Steamworks DRM.
I know, I modified it to make more sense for video.
Steamworks DRM is not a requirement though.
Yeah I don’t think DRM-free is really a requirement for most people.
So then we have iTunes. The only one it does not cover is the permanent ownership. Companies have yanked stuff from iTunes libraries before.
That’s why you download it. Luckily iTunes m4a files are high quality and unlocked so I can instantly play them in anything, even my Synology apps.
Video isn’t the same though. That’s all still encrypted.
See also https://us.7digital.com/; there are a number of places you can buy and download CD-quality music files. I believe iTunes actually lets you download music you buy as normal audio files as well.
ITunes sells videos as well, which I believe they were referring to.
Steam satisfies only your third point, though. Otherwise, no. You don’t actually own your Steam library, Steam itself is DRM, and it doesn’t have everything.
I know. I changed the terms. Pray I don’t change them further.
Pay so I don’t change them further.
FTFY
More like
Pay so I can change them further.
Companies see that as a mistake. They want you on a subscription for life that they can arbitrarily change at any time.
Profits not increasing enough for this quarter? Better cut content, increase prices, increase the number of ads.
Profits increased amazingly this quarter? Better cut content, increase prices, increase the number of ads.
Profits down? Better cut content, increase prices, increase the number of ads, and start adding extra paywalls to some content
They want you to own nothing. Oh you unsubscribed? Sorry even the content you paid extra to unlock was only available while your subscription continued, you will need to start your subscription again and then pay to unlock the content again.
A show isn’t popular enough? Better write it off, pull it from all distribution so you can claim it as a tax write off
I wouldn’t even mind the subscription if all the content was there reliably, and I only needed one.
I subscribe to a music service, because all the music is there and it’s easier than swiping it.
If I had to subscribe to four different ones to get access to all the artists I listen to, then I’d still be pirating that.
Yarrrrrrrr
Yarrrrrr indeed
I honestly don’t mind copy protections, I just don’t like online DRM. If the service is good enough, I’ll look past that particular portion.
DRM = copy protection
Not necessarily. DVDs and Blurays have copy protections, but they don’t require access to any servers. Online DRM sucks because if your internet goes out, their servers are having troubles, or they just shut down the servers for whatever reason, you cannot use your media.
So I’m mostly fine with offline copy protections (someone will crack it eventually), I’m not okay with DRM that requires online access.
I won’t. “Copy protection” is much more about restricting and potentially even removing your access to something you’ve paid for than it is about preventing copying. I am not willing to buy something that can be revoked when alternatives are available.
Offline copy protection, like the copy protection in DVDs and Bluray, can’t be revoked, they’re literally designed to be static. It’s really not an issue since, given time, it’ll be cracked (and both are, I literally just finished ripping my collection). I’m fine with that form of copy protection, I’m not fine with online-only DRM because that’s totally revokable.
Disagree. In order to keep those keys secure they can’t publish them, so they’ll have to license some sort of decryption chip. That just pushes the price up as some manufacturer ends up taking a cut from every player sale.
Also means you can’t do what you want with it. You probably can’t play it on an open source device. Etc etc.
Sure, I’d need specific hardware to access the media, but after I rip it, I can access it anywhere. The benefit to me of something like a Bluray isn’t the disk itself, but being able to legally buy media and rip it to a digital format at home. That’s a legally gray area since breaking copy protection measures is technically a copyright violation, but there’s also legal protection for backing up media for personal use, so it’s a bit of a gray area.
Given that there are no other legal or mostly legal alternatives, I’m satisfied with that as an option. Media companies rarely, if ever, go after people who rip media for personal use (probably because it’s not worth their time and it’s a legal gray area), so I’m okay with that status quo. If there were a legal option to get DRM-free media for offline use, I’d totally go for that. I tried that with streaming services, but the apps I used (Netflix and Disney+) failed when I actually needed them (my downloaded files “expired” on a trip when I didn’t have internet access), so that’s not going to work for me.
If this legally gray area goes away and I can’t easily rip media into a DRM-free format for personal use, I’ll go back to the alternatives I used when I couldn’t afford physical media and Netfilx wasn’t yet a thing.
FYI Steam had videos a few years ago, new purchases are discontinued but one can still playback their existing library.
I buy physical dvds. Sometimes I’m all that high when I buy them.
Physical is practically dead.
One by one I’ve seen pretty much any shop that specialises in physical media go bust. Virgin Megastores, HMV, Blockbuster, Game. The media section in my local supermarkets have gone from several aisles of games and movies, down to a single rack of recent releases. Even in gaming, I’ve had my disc PS5 for two years now, and the only thing I’ve put in it was Top Gun on 4K disc. The other games (BG3, Talos Principle 2) I purchased weren’t even available on disc.
Consumers don’t want it in large numbers, so they stop making it.
Really? Because used media stores are booming all over the place. Stores that sell new and used records alongside CDs, Movies, and video games seem to be in every mid size town I pass through.
The smaller towns like mine feel the effects first. It’ll trickle up.
Game went that way, eventually being taken over by the used section, and now all we have left locally is CEX, which is used only. Most of the prices are about the same as buying new from Amazon. Anything really cheap is often the same stuff in subscription services.
Game still exists, but it’s tucked away at the back of Sports Direct shops in out of town shopping centres, and their main products appear to be plushies and funko pops.
It is dying, and I’m not convinced it can be saved at this point. Who has a CD player any more? DVD players have gone from a £30 box that everyone had to something stuffed in the attic and the apps are built into the TV. A 4K BR player is still £150+ even for a cheap one. You don’t even get Dolby Vision at that price point. I don’t expect the next generation of consoles to have disc drives at all.
Physical media is on life support, and it won’t be long before they pull the plug completely.
When I think small town, I’m thinking a couple hundred people. I’ve never seen those kinds of stores there. Medium is a few thousand. They usually have one.
The nice thing is that there are millions of discs and players still out there. For anyone who prefers physical media and avoids streaming (this guy!) there is no shortage. Prices could stand to come down. But even if they do quit making them, there are lifetimes worth of vintage media, and newer isn’t always better.
I’m talking a town of 35,000-40,000 people. There is not a single dedicated new physical media shop here. The most we have is the rack in the supermarkets. It all went online to Amazon, etc, and now it doesn’t look like it has long there either.
And while that old media will last a decent while, it doesn’t last forever. The discs degrade, and fairly soon compared to CDs. Like 25 years or so.
And if nobody is making discs any more, the drives won’t be far behind. It’s full of moving parts, so stock up on them. It happened to floppy discs, it’ll happen to optical discs too.
I didn’t say new store, I said vintage. If you don’t have one, I’d be surprised. There’s gonna be one somewheres nearby.
As for aging media, you’re right about that. Best make sure we reform copyright law soon. They don’t deserve to gatekeep the entire world’s cultural history.
I’ve had my disc PS5 for two years now, and the only thing I’ve put in it was Top Gun on 4K disc
You are really missing out then, because if you know where to look (like psprices.com) you will often find sales on only physical copies at Amazon, Best Buy or GameStop.
I’m talking like significant sales. Like AAA games less than a year old (that still costs $60 on PSN) for $15.99 kind of sales.
I cannot tell you how many PS4 and PS5 games I’ve gotten, and which, for 40%+ off. Too many to count. I’ve saved hundreds if not over a thousand dollars doing this.
*whom
😝
The trap closes.
Pirate a window
Aye, looks like that’s where we be heading, maytee.
DVDs, appealing? Have you watched them lately?
I tried to watch a DVD lately (as in past few years). Holy. Yeah. Not as I remembered. It’s not even 720p. Looks like manure on my 65" 4K OLED. 💩 And the audio. I had to stop.
I think it was Band Of Brothers? Had to download a 1080p boxset at least. Then it was consumable.
It’s one of those things were people have gotten used to 1080p or better and they remember DVD being pretty good, but when they go back, yeeesh. I remember thinking that about VHS vs DVD. Got used to DVD, remembered VHS being just fine, put a VHS on, oh boy.
Yep. I’ve recently been collecting Criterion Collection blu-rays (and 4k BR in the case of Citizen Kane. Which was incredible btw. First time seeing it too) for some of my favorite films plus classics I haven’t seen yet. If you keep an eye out for sales you can get some really great stuff for under $20. Sometimes under $15.
The picture quality is second to none, the bonus features are always amazing and actually worth checking out, and I own them outright forever.
Edit: oh, you meant like actual old school regular DVDs… Fuck that
No DRM digital files downloads is the simple answer. There is no reason to go back to physical media to avoid subscriptions.
Keep in mind that DVDs did have DRM and the corps did try and get at the people who broke it. A new and improved physical media would have DRM and it’s possible the corporations will prevent it being defeated this time.
Which means that yoy would only be able to play it on approved hardware. You can have your shiny disc but they will decide if you can play it. Perhaps they can detect how many people are present via a camera or require you do drink that verification can.
You can completely remove copy protections on DVDs and Blu-rays that are protected by DRM with ブルーレイコピーソフト.
No, RDM is not the answer. If i pay for something i should own it.
Glad that you agree.
Which means that you would only be able to play it on approved hardware.
cough cough 4K bluray cough cough
Thankfully, MakeMKV is able to get through that with certain drives for every disk I’ve tried.
Ripping those disks is legitimately easier than playing them w/o breaking DRM on PCs
For real, VLC is great, I’ve totally had issues playing some of them with it. If I recall there’s supposed to be a way to let vlc use MakeMKV to break them for playback, but yeah, way more work than just ripping it.
In MakeMKV preferences, Integration tab, VLC should be listed there
Legitimately playing 4K blu-ray video on a PC without cracking the DRM requires an insane combination of requirements:
- Windows 10 (not 11)
- An Intel processor between gen 7-10 (nothing newer because Intel ditched SGX in 2021)
- Intel integrated graphics (no nvidia/amd)
- Monitor that supports HDCP 2.2 for DRM (some 4k ones don’t)
- An approved optical drive
- Proprietary playback software which costs about $100 USD, separate from the cost of hardware and Windows
- Miscellaneous other requirements for the motherboard features, bios settings, etc.
Meanwhile MakeMKV can rip them on basically any Windows/Linux/Mac system with a compatible BDXL drive.
Yup, here’s my hierarchy of preference:
- No DRM digital files w/ guaranteed re-downloadability if I have a license key or something
- No DRM physical media
- Offline DRM physical media
- Low cost subscription service with fantastic selection w/ offline viewing capability
Anything after 4 is unacceptable. VHS was 2, DVD and Bluray are 3, and Netflix was 4. Now Netflix has higher prices and worse selection, so it’s now somewhere after 4 and not worth the effort.
I’m willing to pay a premium for 1 or 2, and I’m willing to buy discounted 3, but nothing is offering 4 anymore. 1 & 2 don’t really exist anymore, so if 3 goes away, I guess I’ll go back to the alternatives I used when I couldn’t afford 1-3 and Netflix wasn’t around yet.
Dropout.TV would definitely fall under #4 if you haven’t checked them out
VHS was 2
VHS did have a halfassed copy protection technology attempted, though, which was Macrovision. It didn’t really work worth a damn in the end, but even in that area the media giants were already huffing on the DRM crack pipe.
VHS was kind of 2.5 thanks to macrovision…
No ads when you pause, but holy hell, we’ve been getting DVDs from the library, and sometimes it’s a good ten minutes of crap before the movie actually starts.
i try to put in the disc, hit play, and just walk away so i miss all the garbage and the paragraphs warning me about prison time. kinda kills the mood
Do you know where I can go right to the movie and not see all that stuff about the FBI?
On all the movies I download.
You wouldn’t download a car
I just need a bigger 3d printer.
I would absolutely download a car 😆
Free and instantaneous creation of a useful asset? Sign me up
That’s a big part of why I have a 3D printer.
I still have that habit even when don’t need to lol
I usually don’t even turn on the TV until the teeny display on the player is showing “MENU”. Achieves the same thing without requiring me to get up.
Just rip it and skip it!
If you don’t want to wait for it to rip, you can play it in VLC. It will let you skip anything you want to.
On a specific DVD I skipped straight to beginning of movie and had playback errors, I had to skip to menu and start movie from there.
VLC! Itll let you do anything for only free 99
Anything??? 😈
Any. Thing
You can do anything at https://zombo.com/
Most of the DVDs I’ve played can skip the previews with chapter selection, but daaang the blu-rays locked that up. Can’t skip anything at all!
I guess I’ve just been spoiled on Criterion Collection as that’s the only Blu-ray media I buy these days, because there’s nothing before the menu besides maybe a splash screen with the Criterion logo.
If you keep an eye on prices on Amazon, these versions are not as pricey as they used to be.
And lots of that crap is anti piracy propaganda. Stuff, that actual pirates never see.
Ironic
Hilariously VLC will happily skip the “unskippable” ads on DVDs
Press stop, then stop again, then play on your remote. That’s a fairly universal way to skip straight to the movie.
