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I thought it was a trans antifa Marxist! /s
It’s starting to look like it was.
Is this actually true? There’s too much disinformation about the shooter, his motivations, his identity, his family, his partner going around that I have no clue what to really believe about him.
(Please, nobody respond to this comment telling me “that’s exactly what they want” without providing a credible source for your claims about the shooter.)
We don’t have confirmation on all of his motives yet; however what we do know about the shooter, his upbringing, lifestyle, etc. is that the poster responding to OP in the image above is largely correct.
There are indeed conflicting accounts that his roommate was trans, or his partner was, or similar. None of that’s been verified yet, and even if so, it doesn’t explain the shooter’s motivations.
What we do know about the shooter is that he largely fits the model of a deeply conservative republican, and that fits with how he was raised, his family, and as his grandmother puts it: “Their family was all MAGA”.
Going off that, and a lot of other circumstantial details/evidence, it’s clear that he was at one point a deeply MAGA character.
Beyond that or what his current motivations are? We can only extrapolate. Those extrapolations largely lead in the direction that he shot Kirk because Kirk didn’t back some of the same extremist beliefs he held. Those beliefs are similar to what Nick Fuentes believes in, which is also why he’s currently being labeled a Gyroper.
Fair enough, but I think we shouldn’t be basing our inferences about the shooter from his family’s political leanings. My feeling is that somebody who does something so drastic is likely enough to be an outlier from their family that we can’t really know one way or the other.
A big reason why that’s important, as long as it’s done with care, is because conservatives rely on the rhetoric that purely white, conservative communities would be without crime. This kid grew up in a prime setting to show how amazing their way of life is without any “evil leftist” influences and yet here we are. The US has been given every opportunity to show how great theocratic conservative capitalism is and yet it keeps failing because the reality is that it fucking sucks rocks.
if he’s a leftist, then of course he had “evil leftist” influences. The internet exists.
I feel like we have a pretty definitive understanding of his motivations. This is directly from Tyler when discussing why he did it, “I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Where is the ambiguity in this?
According to some right-wing spaces (r/conservative on Reddit), there is apparently evidence to suggest that the shooter was an outlier within their otherwise hard-right family.
Is there any evidence to the contrary?
Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter’s motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.
That could change, but today this is true.
Any evidence we have is circumstantial. Most of that circumstantial evidence points in the direction of an extreme right winger.
I’m sure there’s some circumstantial evidence pointing in the opposite direction, but it pales in comparison to the circumstantial evidence pointing in the far right direction.
Much of the circumstantial evidence pointing away from the far right came from a mis-attribution from the FBI to a trans rights marker that was debunked as categorically untrue. Or statements from the Utah Gov which are (AFAIK) not backed up by any actual evidence other than how he “wishes” it was. Or from Trump who is known for lying and making things up.
I’d be curious what evidence they have that hasn’t been announced/released yet that makes them think that.
I suspect they want it to be true that he was left leaning and they may be assigning too great a weight on the debunked FBI claims, the Utah Gov claims, and Trump’s claims; despite most of the circumstantial evidence that’s been released so far pointing in the direction of him being far right.
To be clear, this could change later today if the investigators were to release evidence about the shooter’s motivations. Until then, all we’ve got to go on is what circumstantial stuff has been released so far, and that’s largely pointing in the direction of the far right.
Hi, I’m here to remind you that this is utterly delusional and even reddit mods are about to get real quiet how this “he was right wing” fabrication.
Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter’s motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.
From the texts between him and his roomate that have been publicly released. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecutor-utah
“Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah.“’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.”
So, we have his direct statement to his transwoman roommate as to his motive, either you can take that at face value or claim it’s some carefully crafted lie intentionally meant to deceive us as to his real motives. You do you.
“He’s talking about hatred towards the Right, not the Left”
-Lemmy communist attempting to cope
According to The Onion, he once had a trans Uber driver so that obviously makes him a leftist.
You can bake cookies twice a week for years and nobody calls you a baker.
But you have sex with ONE HORSE…
I will point out one thing that should be obvious, the shooter was only 22. So it’s possible he doesn’t have a very baked and stable political ideology. I knew a hard core outwardly homophobic conservative at 17 who came out as gay and did theater by 20. I knew a fairly liberal person when she was about 18 that over the years got to a place where she publicly praised Trump and called COVID a hoax and the vaccine a conspiracy. No idea how that happened, even as I saw it first hand.
Given the situation, it is at least clear he was unhinged if he would get to this point, either way. I would have hoped this would be a lesson for people that people get dangerously moved by angry rhetoric, but a lot of folks are ramping up rhetoric instead.
A very fair point indeed
I heard there is video of him using a megaphone to debate Charlie at some point. I do not know where to verify this. I will be looking into it later.
Is it this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rncUo1Pnqio
Close enough to double take, but I don’t think its the person they caught.
Kirk’s job was literally to argue like this though, so it might be somewhere else.
My sentiment is the same.
To be blunt, Lemmy is a terrible place to ask.
Earlier in the briefing, Gray said investigators had spoken to Robinson’s mother, who said her son had, over the last year “become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights-oriented”.
He disclosed that the exchange with the roommate then began to explore a motive.
“Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah."’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything about them finding it,’” Gray said.
I think the motivation is pretty clear at this point. Not sure how this post got 1k+ likes and no one seem to give credible source.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecutor-utah
The politicians just want to continue spreading fear no matter the side imo. I hate how they want to argue instead of trying to unify us (which is what they seem scared to do cuz a unified nation will turn against them)
That is utter bullshit. The right is wanting to go door to door and kill democrats and keep saying this is war. The left is saying we dont condone this kind of abhorrent behavior. They are NOT the same at all.
The oligarchs want that, and the oligarchs have many politicians in their pocket I presume. However, it’s not like non-corrupt non-bought politicians have any reason to be afraid of a unified nation – they’re in politics to effect change in the first place.
Ik just feels like they don’t care. Overall I just hate all this in fighting makes it hard to get stuff done when you point fingers and shit
yeah, I agree. But like, pointing fingers at “politicians” broadly speaking is still just pointing fingers.
Yeahhhhh explaining stuff isn’t my specialty I always end up explaining things wrong lol it’s a bad habit
I wouldn’t trust anyone describing his political leanings or motives until court. It’s being twisted around and rumors are spreading like wildfire in a vacuum of actual leadership.
I’d even say all indications are that his leanings don’t matter in the specifics of this event.
It’s probably more informative that folks can credibly have theories for either leaning to lead to this event. Lots of reasons that could believably drive any political leaning over the edge if they are close.
His trail’s probably a long way away, isn’t it?
That’s a good question. I honestly don’t know, they’ll probably try to hang him on primetime tv as soon as legally possible.
I just keep hearing about discord and 4chan and how he’s got a trans roommate/girlfriend/landlord. If anyone has any reputable sources I’m interested. I just feel like cable news, the Trump admin, and the Internet are all reporting 24/7 on something they need to investigate.
At least people face consequences for lying under oath. Well in theory.
Do we know about the political views of the suspect? I know he supports guns but that does not make you automatically right wing
His family and city was, but it pretty likely seems he was not. Hard to be a republican if you’re living with (and allegedly dating) a trans.
It was only for one semester. And you’d be surprised how many white supremacists have had relationships with non-whites.
I am a big time left wing guy and I love guns. Of course I believe in gun control, but I do not believe in most gun bans.
Me too. I am left wing and shoot guns weekly. I live in switzerland and it is not a issue at all because there are strict regulations. You cannot aquire an automatic rifle without special permissions.
I think “we’re” going to end up with a lot of egg on our faces the more they investigate. I believe his parents have already told the authorities that “he’s been getting more into left wing ideology in the recent years” so I’m pretty sure its just a matter of time before it’s “proven.”
The only thing people have to go off of now is some tenuous connection to Nick Fuentes that doesn’t seem too solid.
This kids was different. He is not one of us! /S
What was fucking hilarious was the governor got on to reassure all Utahns that he was not like his parents, community, or state when he is clearly is.
Your musings don’t matter he has already been branded by the liars as a leftist and your just here to sweep up after them like a good lackey.
Why the hell would I want to “sweet up” after them? I even used the term “we’re” to distinguish the fact that I’m not a right winger. I’m simply trying to stick to the only facts we have, I’m not letting what I want to be real get in the way of what reality seems to be.
I’m one of the last people who wants this to be a left wing guy, but I also won’t plug my ears and choose to believe something that might not be true based on some loose connections.
Sweep up is a reference to cleaning up.
It doesn’t matter what you think or even I think. They already branded him as leftist. They are already attacking innocent people with political violence like the terrorists they are.
The reality is he was raised conservative in a conservative religion, in a conservative family, in a conservative town, and in a conservative state. He is one of them. They know this, I know this, but you seem confused.
They have a name for this and it is useful idiot.
I understand what sweep up means… I was saying that’s not what I’d want to be doing and it isn’t what I was attempting to do.
As for useful idiot, you’re literally assuming you know what you claim to be true… Just like you said, what you think or what I think doesn’t matter. I’m not “helping” them by my comment suggesting that we might end up embarrassed if they do end up having actual proof he’s a “left winger.” I’m of the mind that this is unfortunately more likely than not to be the case.
It is okay, you got caught up in the propaganda of what was his political leanings left or right. I am just here to tell you that your doing exactly what they want you to do. Hence the useful idiot
I am assuming the truth. Just like OP said. He is a product of conservative culture regardless if he embraced or denied it.
Sweep up is a reference to cleaning up.
It doesn’t matter what you think or even I think. They already branded him as leftist. They are already attacking innocent people with political violence like the terrorists they are.
The reality is he was raised conservative in a conservative religion, in a conservative family, in a conservative town, in a conservative state. He is one of them. They know this, I know this, but you seem confused.
They have a name for this and it is useful idiot.
Where did you see he was turning left? Given his background with groupers, he’s got Internet brain rot and is trying to play lefty while doing what he did for the reasons stated are hardcore radical right.
In an article I read they stated that his parents were supposedly saying he started turning to the left in recent years. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but it would at least partially explain his not voting for Republicans and registration as independent.
What background has been proven that he has a history with groypers? The only thing I’ve seen are the bullet engravings, but unfortunately he managed to pick every single meme that could go either way… They all have a history of starting one way and being used in another, even the helldiver’s reference could be a fascist misunderstanding the point of helldiver’s, or a left winger understanding and using it as anti-fascist.
LOL.
Boomers complaining people are “turning left” cause their kid asked if Jesus really meant it when he said to feed the poor and treat others with human decency.
Yeah, it’s probably the fact that he went to college for a semester. To them that means he was indoctrinated into leftism.
The article I saw said he was getting more “political“ recently, not explicitly more left-wing…
If you didn’t vote in '22 or '24, and had the ability, you’re not a progressive or liberal, full stop.
Yeah and if he had been getting more lefty they would have said that, not the intentionally vague “more political”.
I wish I had it saved since I’m at work and can’t do a good enough search, but yeah the quick search I’m doing now is only pulling up “more political.” Could have been that the article was wrong and has since been corrected.
Consider the source. Hard-core Righties consider anyone who isn’t as right wing as them to be Liberals. They could check every box in Conservative Bingo, but if they have the slightest concern about deporting people without due process, they are as Liberal as a San Francisco Homo.
You can’t let MAGAs choose the labels.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. At face value alone the alleged “Hey Fascist, Catch!” text on the casing is not something a right winger would say about their own ideological cousin, and if true as well, the shooter may have dated a trans individual. The preponderance of the circumstantial evidence we’ve been told (albeit with the caveat that we can’t trust news orgs that are kissing the ring) would seem to point towards the shooter aligning with left-leaning traits.
Edit: you downvoters need to check your cancel votes at the door. Just because there’s a possibility you might dislike the reality of the situation not turning out how you’d like.
It’s definitely frustrating to see people absolutely refuse to accept that it might not be what they want it to be, meanwhile they’ll point to the right and laugh when they do it.
I’m just trying not to let what I want to be true make me believe 100% that it couldn’t be anything else. It’s kinda like the Epstein distraction “meme” that’s getting a bit frustrating… Every single thing that happens is suddenly branded a distraction from Epstein, completely ignoring more realistic reasoning for what is being done… Like Venezuela, we’re going to war with Venezuela not to cover for Epstein, but for one of a few reasons: as Carlin said “we’re an oil company with a military.” or to allow deportations to continue using the foreign enemies distinction that he was denied earlier as “we aren’t at war with the cartel” … Well now we are, or will be.
Don’t forget the arrows after the quote, though
It’s a reference to Helldivers 2, and a sufficiently brainrotted individual might very well just put internet references on there. Which he did. And it’s not like right wingers haven’t been misusing political terms for ages. Remember the term “feminazi”?
The shooter seems to have been involved in some deep internet culture and communities. You can’t just treat it like standard opinions, but under that internet lens, which is far less straightforward and filled with codewords. From an outside perspective a lot of that might seem straight up nonsensical when put together
Not that it matters much anyhow, as republicans will pin it on the left no matter what
From what I’ve heard, he was from a right wing family but there are conflicting reports on whether he himself was right wing
This is what i read as well. While not likely, it is totally possible he is not right wing
He was apparently dating a transgender person. That doesn’t necessarily make him left wing, but it means that in regards to transgender people, he probably didn’t fully agree with the right wing
Not all right wingers are against trans people. I‘d be surprised if ecen 50% are
Probably a libertarian. Non party affiliated has been growing as people arent into fascist Republicans vs fiscal conservative policy and they dont want to be a Democrat in those states.
I know we have this, you are one party of the other thing but i think the “others” is gonna get bigger as a group and already has.
This is one of the biggest problems with our current state of polarization: we’re quick to box people into a binary; either “red” or “blue,” “left” or “right.”
Real people rarely fit neatly into those categories. When you take the time to actually map out someone’s beliefs, experiences, and values, what you find almost never looks like a solid block of one color. Instead, it’s more like a mosaic: someone might lean conservative on economic issues, progressive on social ones, independent when it comes to foreign policy, and undecided on others.
Reducing all of that complexity down to a single partisan label is not only misleading, it also fuels division. It makes it harder to have real conversations, because instead of engaging with the full person (their reasoning, contradictions, and growth), we engage with a caricature. Recognizing that most people carry a mix of beliefs forces us to slow down, listen, and resist the urge to collapse identities into overly simple categories.
The challenge is that this feels counterintuitive, especially for people who haven’t examined why they hold the views they do. It’s easier, and often more comforting, to inherit an identity or adopt a team than it is to wrestle with contradictions and gray areas. But when we refuse that deeper work, we not only misunderstand others, we also misunderstand ourselves.
In other words, the messiness is the point. People are complicated, and when we acknowledge that, we create more space for dialogue, empathy, and genuine understanding; the very things that binary polarization squeezes out.
Edit:
If you’re interested in seeing how this plays out in practice, the New York Times put together a quiz a few years back that illustrates the point really well:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/08/opinion/republicans-democrats-parties.html
Is there a way to interact with this quiz that doesn’t involve me giving the NYT a dollar?
Very well said, this is how i think as well. Here in switzerland it is exactly the same even though we have 5 major parties to choose from. This is also why direct democracy in switzerland is so amazing. You choose people that represent the parliment in parties while you still can vote different in referendums than your chosen party does.
From what I’ve pieced together, it’s a guy from a MAGA family that was recently radicalized, possibly in college towards left-wingism (possibly via exposure and humanization of trans room mate?). There’s not that much evidence to suggest he was a far-righter himself (the groyper claims are literally just “yeah the engravings are a dogwhistle trust me bro” but many libs here are buying it), and now it’s just turning into a war of push from both sides being like “no it’s not OUR guy it’s YOUR guy!”.
In other words, it’s impossible to tell for certain due to how deliberately muddied the waters are by everyone.
There’s equal evidence for the groyper claim as there is for the trans roommate claim, which is to say nothing but hearsay being pushed out by the Governor of Utah.
He went to UVU one semester and then left and went to trade school as an electrical apprentice. I highly doubt he got radicalized at college in Utah. He was already radicalized by his parents and family in the MAGA / Mormon spheres. It takes longer than a semester to deconstruct cult level beliefs like that. There is very little to any evidence that his roommate is trans. It is all hearsay picked up from places like 4-chan then spread to right-wing rags then spread to right wing politicans. A big loooong game of telephone. It isn’t even clear he lived there at the time of the shooting. The Daily Mail said he lives with his family in a $600,000 six-bedroom home.
The reason the trans - fan fic is getting spread by right-wingers is that the federal authorities are using it to get jurisdiction from the state since that could make it classify as a hate crime. Even if the roommate is trans that doesn’t mean they aren’t a right-wing trans person. Trans people can have shitty views just like any other group of people.
It doesn’t help that the FBI and news outlets are releasing different info to different news audiences to muddy the waters. Just the meta-data of this being the 3rd trans related storyline being pushed does not inspire confidence in it’s veracity. The first TRN one was debunked and retracted, but then they claim the engravings point to trans- ideology when that isn’t really apparent. Then they come up with another one. Sorry, not buying right-wingers making shit up to blame it on trans people.
Hold on… A hate crime? Jesus fucking Christ. Being a fascist asshole is 100% a choice. And their entire existence is a fucking hate crime.
The Trump regime doesn’t want a local jury of Mormon peers, they want to execute him federally and have control of the trial so that inconvenient information doesn’t come out.
If this kid had been “radicalized towards left-wingism” in any way, the media would be all over it and we wouldn’t be hearing the end of it.
Ding ding ding ding.
When you hear that he’s “not cooperating” today, that means the regime can’t convince him to tell everyone he’s really a liberal.
MAGA was screaming that it was a radical leftist without ANY evidence… They are just looking for an excuse to justify using force against political opponents
The gun he used was non binary
Missed a detail: any criticism of the scumbag is now considered “celebration” or “justification”. We hated him before he died, but now we cannot say that. Because of the Fuhrer at all.
Dont rewrite history while its still happening, mate. Saying you dont like him because X reasons is not the issue being brought up. Its the people cheering for his death, celebrating murder and worse calling for more of it. I didnt like the cunt, but I never wanted him to fucking die. But a lot of people on this very platform are drinking and cheering. And thats ghoulish behaviour. Its not about Kirk at that point, its about the people saying it.
Bullshit
If you looked at Reddit, you would see that any criticism of Kirk is largely being equated to celebration or at least supporting it.
Even if you ignored that, people are getting fired in droves for saying mild things, and the fascists are trying to force people nationwide to either keep quiet or participate in memorials. Just yesterday Oklahoma tried to force their school children into a minute of silence for the monster.
And even if you ignored that, just posting Kirk’s quotes are making a lot of people angry. This is not okay. Open your eyes.
Maybe it should be about the factors that led to a person murdering another person and not the bystander reactions to a notable event that happened.
So, youre now going with the “she deserved to be raped. What did she think was going to happen going up to his hotel room at 3 in the morning?”???
So many of these Charlie Kirk AI generated TikTok videos popping up everywhere have to shoehorn some amount of “We hate Greta Thunberg” into them. I’m beginning to suspect these people aren’t actually sad that Kirk is dead. They’re sad that Greta Thunberg is doing something infinitely more dangerous and more inspiring, yet she managed to outlive him.
What you’re describing is clearly foreign propaganda.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
“I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says.
“Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.”
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”
Love it!
Funny thing I was thinking on the drive to camp:
We had 3 TV stations, 3 sources of the nightly news. (Nightly news for national and world news, local paper for local news.)
The talking heads always said the same things. Sounds like state propaganda, doesn’t it? But the reality was that none of them wanted to show even a whiff of bias. The #1 metric of who one watched for their news was trust. Like Cronkite or Rather? Who do you trust? Bias was verboten, propaganda. LOL, after Watergate, journalists hunted politicians for sport.
Al Jazeera America started with the promise to report “just the facts ma’am”. Now I don’t know shit about their worldwide operations, I only saw the American version, and I was horrified. I realized I was so brainwashed on news-as-entertainment that reading their version was like watching grass grow. Hadn’t seen news reported as straight facts in so long I was bored shitless.
I have some experience. Edited my high school paper, not like that’s a big deal, but I had some solid journalistic training. Same in college. I can point to bias in any given article you care to show me. Not Al Jazeera, nada, no bias.
Predictably, they gave up within a year.
I now know way more about this than I wish I knew.
https://www.axios.com/2025/09/15/groyper-charlie-kirk-nick-fuentes-tyler-robinson
Soon after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, some on the political left quickly spread a baseless theory that the conservative podcaster was killed by a follower of the ultra-right-wing group called Groypers.
Authorities told Axios they believe Robinson’s romantic relationship with his transgender roommate could be key to determining a motive for Kirk’s killing, and that Robinson believed that the conservative was spreading transphobic hate.
Robinson “wasn’t too fond of Trump or Charlie [Kirk],” a former coworker of his told CNN.
Reality check: As noted by Time Magazine, those who have covered Fuentes downplayed connections between Robinson and the movement.
I don’t think reality is welcome on Lemmy at this point.
I wouldn’t say the Groyper is totally baseless, but “Robinson’s romantic relationship with his transgender roommate” is pretty telling.
Upvoted for citing reasonable source.
Personally, it doesn’t really matter much whether he was left or right since it’s very clear that right-wing extremist violence makes up the large majority of these incidents.
Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, and he’s a right wing piece of shit. So what
Groypers, specifically, are no longer fond of Trump.
Cut the ‘deep down they know’ bullshit. They have no principles and sincerely believe that it is their opposition, or perceived opposition, that are responsible for all things that go wrong no matter what. No matter how many people Trump fucks over or have their lives completely ruined by him, they will just blame the democrats or transgender people or homosexuals or whoever else. They genuinely cannot see what Trump and his asskissers are doing and the results it is having.
It’s more accurate to think of them as irrational beings with brain disease making them unable to think clearly. They have vague intuitions and a complete inability to think rationally.
Nope, if you talk to anyone on the right currently, everything the administration is doing right now is fine and they have broken no laws.
Oh the democrats have done much worse. When i ask them what things democrats have done that are close to what republicans do, they always bring up forcing kids to become trans or giving them hormones in school.
People really are that out of touch with reality.
They are fascists.
Period.
They fit the definition.
They are fascists.
They might be stupid fascists that don’t even know it, but that doesn’t change that they’re fascists.
To them any concept of socialism or human rights is considered communism or lgbtq+ . They smear themselves in fascist excrements, coming straight from the orange pudding’s ass.
And fascists are liars
People really are that out of touch with reality.
there’s a portion that are ignorant sure. and there’s a portion that leverages that ignorance as a shield to deny their fascist motivations.
they’re both awful.
I have had the same experience and its frustrating. I mentioned Trumps claim that all his actions are legal, and his reply was “well it was ok when Biden said it”, like a knee-jerk reaction.
I had to JackieChan_WHAT.jpg while driving.
Did they provide any real world examples?
yeah they saw it on facebook or truth social
First of all, there is no Republican Party any longer, they are as dead as the Whigs. They should only be referred to in an historical or scholarly context.
They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc. MAGA embraces none of those foundational tenets, instead supporting and encouraging treason, racism, corruption, violence, genocide, pedophilia, misogyny, incompetence, ignorance, intolerance, and more.
The Dems should hold a press conference, and unilaterally, but officially, declare the death of the Republican Party, and then never refer to them again, always calling them the MAGA Party. The MAGAs are proud of being Republicans, and they will go out of their minds over this.
the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc.
TBF, the GOP didn’t hold many of those values either. They wanted to increase government control over people, lower taxes only for the rich and therefore increase the national debt, values only counted if they were christian and straight, etc. The main differences with MAGA is they say the quiet part out loud and they’re more comfortable with nazis, fascists, and kings than the GOP ostensibly was.
They may not have lived by it, but they certainly were proud of it, and claimed it relentlessly. Now they don’t even try to claim smaller government, or lower taxes. They know how ludicrous it would sound.
They haven’t talked “fiscal responsibility” since they let Bush Jr. blew Clinton’s surplus. Just dropped it.
Not true. Trump was constantly slamming Biden’s poor economy, even though it was far better than Trump’s first term. They made a big show of selling the concept that MAGAs, and specifically him, know the economy better than anyone, despite decades of history showing that the economy ALWAYS tanks under the right-wing administrations.
ALL true, but the GOP has given up the “fiscal responsibility” angle. I knew Republicans who were fucking enraged by Bush’s spending and wars. They GOP no longer pretends to be saving our treasury. Sure, they say their policies will eventually enrich us, but they’ve utterly given up saying they’re trying to save money. Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but I clearly remember their scream of “fiscal responsibility!”, and now they are silent.
They haven’t given up the claim when a Democrat is president. When a Dem is in the White House, all we hear about is how it is imperative to cut the deficit at any cost, including government shutdowns.
Then a MAGA takes over and we don’t hear a peep as they expand some major surveillance agency like Homeland Security or ICE or the Space Force.
They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc.
What a load of bullshit. The Republican party has never, in my lifetime (and from everything I’ve read, since long before that) stood for those things.
They may have said that they do, but their actions speak louder than words.
I honestly cannot believe that people still say shit like this.
Whether they lived by it or not, it was the definition of their party that they offered to the world.
The fact that they don’t even try to float those concepts any more, because they know how silly they’d sound, demonstrates that they have changed.
The simple fact is that the Republican Party and the MAGA Party are now two separate entities, and should be referred to that way. And by the Dems making the unilateral choice to eject the Republicans to the dustbin of history, and force recognition of the MAGA Party, the Traditional Republicans, who think they are going to wait out MAGA, and revert to being Republicans again someday, will come to the realization that they have killed the Republican Party that they love so much.
It’s long past time that the Dems matched the MAGA’s psychological warfare.
All that a German needs to know about this incident is two words:
Reichstag Fire
(EU pls send help 🥺👉👈)
People keep saying this but I’m seeing a different thing. The Kirk murder doesn’t seem to have the seriousness required to compare. Instead, the event has turned into an us-vs.-them litmus test. The fascists can’t use this to declare autocracy, but they’re using it to target enemies.
It’s a loyalty test, yes.
The funny thing is you can rotate things around “right” -> “left” and it will still be valid
Lemmy can’t stop bitching about right, it’s honestly funny
Nice examples provided to illustrate your point.
That’s not what happened though, is it? Where and when did this situation you are alluding to happen?
oh sure, I’m not talking about this case obviously
I was thinking about things like epstein files not being made public and left accusing right, and right accusing left
Mass surveillance, facism, war… that happened under obama now happens with trump
Don’t have examples on left blaming right when it happens though, I was mainly saying that each side will blame the other for things they have done too, but obviously I missed the point of this post because that’s clearly not it. I also believe I wanted to say that one side is quick to accuse the other without real evidence, and assumes that the other one is responsible when it’s not that simple.
after re-reading my comment I feel dumb, I’ll strike the text. Sorry.
I can’t speak to the shooter’s motivations (though meme forensics seems pretty silly) but the “at a Right wing state with a Right wing governor” etc bits seem pretty dumb.
It’d be like saying the guy who went after Pelosi was clearly a Leftie because it was in a Leftie state, with a Left song governor, in a Left wing city against a Left wing politician. Pretty nonsense points and make us look dumb.
It’s sort of relevant because when crazy stuff happens in a Democratic state, the right points fingers and they imply that chaos is happening because of governance.
Kind of feels like the right invents their own truth and constantly does mental gymnastics. Now we are doing it? The media talked about goypher for a day and everybody jumped on it.
How are “we” doing mental gymnastics here?
Thinking this guy is right wing just because his dad is and assuming he “ironically” wrote an anti fascist song lyric on the bullet.
The media mentioned goypher once and everyone jumped on the band wagon without asking any questions.
At least the CIA nipped this Luigi before it could grow.
jumping on the band wagon without any questions… like the whole trans rhetoric on a bullet. the bullets engravings are memes and I doubt there was much thought put into them beyond being ‘for the lulz’ or some other edgelord bullshit as would be expected of a 4channer
That’s a bit my point, both sides are exhibiting the same energy at the moment. I thought Lemmy would be a bit more critical, especially since I figure it’s users are more resistant to rhetoric and manipulation.
At this point, I think even if the shooter came out and publicly declared his ideology, anybody that “guessed” wrong during the last week wouldn’t believe him.
Seems blatant to me, I’m surprised no one seems to be mentioning it.
Interesting. I hadn’t even considered that.
It’s interesting that tens of millions of people know the truth of him being a radical far-left homicidal maniac, but the few thousand people here continue to circlejerk over lies. I really expected better from lemmy. Oh well, it is what it is.
Can you be specific about what you mean by “radical far left”? Obviously we all agree that he’s a homicidal maniac, because he assassinated a person in public, but I don’t wanna just jump on the downvote bandwagon without hearing you out. What makes him a decent person?
The only evidence of this I’ve seen is that his roommate might have been trans, and we all know being in the same room as a trans person makes you a radical left maniac.
