They do. They know she doesn’t have a chance. So they are using their vote to say, “I don’t give a fuck if we have the current amount of genocide or even more. I don’t give a fuck about Ukraine. I don’t give a fuck about women’s rights or SCOTUS accepting bribes and flying traitor flags. I don’t give a fuck about insurrection. I don’t give a fuck about the crime and corruption of the Repubs.”
No, they don’t care who wins because they are privileged and think it won’t affect them. No third party has ever come close to winning in the history of the country. It will not happen. So they are expressing that they’re okay if it gets worse.
Your (and their) arguments may not be in bad faith, but they are in conflict with objective reality.
They either believe Jill Stein will actually win, which is false based on all of US history, including the elections she already participated in.
Or they believe there is literally no difference for, say, women, when 1/3 of SCOTUS are religious extremists appointed by an insurrectionist. Or on climate. Or Ukraine. Or voting rights. Etc. The question “is a president allowed to break the law and do whatever” is somehow still open. Is that not completely insane?
I understand what they claim they are doing with the protest vote. But in actuality, they have looked at the difference and decided that it isn’t much. That can only come from a position of privilege or extreme ignorance.
The other case I also pointed out is they might be unaware of the facts. You are engaging in bad faith by misrepresenting my words to form a what you think is a strawman to argue against.
i asked copilot to weigh in on this. i have edited it for brevity (there was a lot of boiler-plate), but this is the last half or so completely unedited:
Whether or not someone is engaging in bad faith would depend on their intent and whether they genuinely believe in their arguments or are purposefully distorting the discussion.
It’s important to approach such discussions with the aim of understanding and addressing the actual points being made, rather than attributing motives or misrepresenting positions. This fosters a more productive dialogue and helps avoid the pitfalls of bad faith arguments and logical fallacies. If you feel the discussion is not progressing constructively, it may be beneficial to step back and reassess the approach to ensure a good faith exchange of ideas.
Thanks, Copilot. Can Copilot explain the other possible positions beyond “doesn’t understand she won’t win” and “doesn’t believe or is unaware there is a difference between the two who will win?” You are not providing other options, maybe Copilot could explain it to me.
stating your perspective about it doesn’t make it reality. you need to actually listen to what people say, and if you think it’s unrealistic, then you can say you think it’s unrealistic, but you can’t just assert that they can’t possibly have any other motivations.
You didn’t actually listen to what I said, you in fact deliberately and in bad faith edited out parts so that you could argue against what you want to argue against.
You have been stating your perspective all along that it is bad faith, asserting that there are no other motivations. You didn’t actually listen to what I had to say, you just asserted a position.
I don’t think you are taking this seriously. You are certainly picking and choosing which rules apply to whom. Why are we engaging at all?
They do. They know she doesn’t have a chance. So they are using their vote to say, “I don’t give a fuck if we have the current amount of genocide or even more. I don’t give a fuck about Ukraine. I don’t give a fuck about women’s rights or SCOTUS accepting bribes and flying traitor flags. I don’t give a fuck about insurrection. I don’t give a fuck about the crime and corruption of the Repubs.”
no, they are saying they don’t want any of that and voting against Republicans and Democrats at the same time.
No, they don’t care who wins because they are privileged and think it won’t affect them. No third party has ever come close to winning in the history of the country. It will not happen. So they are expressing that they’re okay if it gets worse.
another bad faith statement. you need to ask them what they want, and believe their answer, or dialogue cannot progress.
Your (and their) arguments may not be in bad faith, but they are in conflict with objective reality.
They either believe Jill Stein will actually win, which is false based on all of US history, including the elections she already participated in.
Or they believe there is literally no difference for, say, women, when 1/3 of SCOTUS are religious extremists appointed by an insurrectionist. Or on climate. Or Ukraine. Or voting rights. Etc. The question “is a president allowed to break the law and do whatever” is somehow still open. Is that not completely insane?
I understand what they claim they are doing with the protest vote. But in actuality, they have looked at the difference and decided that it isn’t much. That can only come from a position of privilege or extreme ignorance.
this is still putting words in their mouths. it’s not good-faith engagement.
No, that’s reality.
The other case I also pointed out is they might be unaware of the facts. You are engaging in bad faith by misrepresenting my words to form a what you think is a strawman to argue against.
i asked copilot to weigh in on this. i have edited it for brevity (there was a lot of boiler-plate), but this is the last half or so completely unedited:
Thanks, Copilot. Can Copilot explain the other possible positions beyond “doesn’t understand she won’t win” and “doesn’t believe or is unaware there is a difference between the two who will win?” You are not providing other options, maybe Copilot could explain it to me.
stating your perspective about it doesn’t make it reality. you need to actually listen to what people say, and if you think it’s unrealistic, then you can say you think it’s unrealistic, but you can’t just assert that they can’t possibly have any other motivations.
You didn’t actually listen to what I said, you in fact deliberately and in bad faith edited out parts so that you could argue against what you want to argue against.
You have been stating your perspective all along that it is bad faith, asserting that there are no other motivations. You didn’t actually listen to what I had to say, you just asserted a position.
I don’t think you are taking this seriously. You are certainly picking and choosing which rules apply to whom. Why are we engaging at all?