Might help also to describe what you think feminism is, since it’s one of those terms that is overloaded.
I once had a physical therapist tell me she wasn’t a feminist because she thought women couldn’t be as physically capable as men when serving as soldiers, and seemed to believe feminism requires treating women exactly like men.
I told her I was a feminist because I believe in equal rights for men and women, an idea she did not seem so opposed to.
If feminism is defined as equal rights for all things that are not gender relevant I agree. But there are a lot of really good exception, where it makes sense that we acknowledge differences. Like pregnancy, physical differences and so on. In short everything that can be equal should be.
I’m an egalitarian. I believe women and women are, and should be treated, equal(ly).
The clue is in the name feminist. Feminism is about equality in the same way an advocate of masculinism is an advocate of equality.
That’s unfortunately not how words work.
Get into etymology and you’d be surprised at the number of words whose current meanings are complete 180s from their historical definitions.
You can’t just look at a word a decide what it means. Very few people use the word feminist to intend what you are claiming it means.
Suggesting they secretly intend your interpretation is mad, and claiming everyone except you is using the word wrong just means youre the one who has its definition wrong.
“Ecofeminists examine the effect of gender categories in order to demonstrate the ways in which social norms exert unjust dominance over women and nature. The philosophy also contends that those norms lead to an incomplete view of the world, and its practitioners advocate an alternative worldview that values the earth as sacred, recognizes humanity’s dependency on the natural world, and embraces all life as valuable.” —https://www.britannica.com/topic/ecofeminism
Yes. Because it goes hand in hand with Cynicism, my main guiding philosophy:
Cynic: “an adherent of an ancient Greek school of philosophers who held the view that virtue is the only good and that its essence lies in self-control and independence” —Merriam-Webster
I’m a male vegan anarchist and reject every form of mistreatment based on immutable qualities like species, ethnicity, sex etc. At the same time women in my life have consistently broken my trust, which has left me with some generalized cynical views about them. I also believe that the west is at a point where women often receive preferential treatment in sectors like education and hiring, so advocating for them while men are left behind doesn’t make much sense to me. I do not consider myself a feminist.
I wish I could give you like an award for writing the most Lemmy comment of all or something, lol
I’ll write a more thoughtful response later, but in the meantime, thank you for sharing 🧡
EDIT:
more serious response time:
I was wondering why you believe women receive preferential treatment in hiring and education, what I have read is that empirically women are more likely to be turned down for jobs and they experience greater rates of unemployment and longer employment gaps than men (in the U.S.).
Do you mean you wouldn’t advocate for women in employment and hiring based on your views, or just generally? Because there are still many stark disparities between men and women in the West (including pay, cost of healthcare, sexual violence rates, and so on).
It’s surprising to me that you identify as an egalitarian and anarchist, but don’t consider yourself a feminist - what do you think feminism is, if not a movement for gender equality?
Yes, bc I support equality. That’s it. That’s all it means. I try to treat others the way I would want to be treated. I try not to be an asshole to others. I know sometimes I fail, but I don’t go out of my way to do it. If somebody tells me I did something incorrect or hurtful, I don’t get offended, I just try to do better in the future if I see them again.
I didn’t know that supporting feminism was just supporting equality until I was an adult bc nobody ever taught me that. It’s not surprising to me that some people attach so much additional meaning to the word (both positive and negative), and they’re opposed to it for whatever additional meanings they have attach to the word.
It is still very surprising to me that there are people who will openly admit they’re just strongly opposed to equality. From my perspective, if you’re opposed to equality, that means you’re opposed to treating others as you would want them to treat you. You’re intentionally being an asshole, and you kinda forfeit any expectations that people shouldn’t be an asshole to you too. Yet, I still believe you’re entitled to the same rights as anyone else. Equality means it’s ok to be an asshole to another asshole. That is feminism to me.
what is striking to me is how your thinking about feminism is on the scale of your own experiences and interactions with people - i.e. feminism for you is about being an asshole or a nice person to people based on how they interact with you, but not based on their gender … but what is missing from this is any social or structural awareness of how women are treated differently, not necessarily by individuals, but by policies and more subtle differences, like the absence of women in positions of power (as politicians for example).
Not that there is anything wrong about reflecting on the ways that bias manifests on the individual scale, it just feels so different from what I typically encounter as feminism (which is more about activism and furthering equal rights and so on).
I think you’re misunderstanding my point.
Feminism isn’t about being an asshole vs a nice person. It’s about equality and it extends beyond gender.
Why are women treated differently? Why aren’t they given the same respect as everyone else? Why should anyone be denied an equal place in society based on things like race, class, gender etc.?
My only point about assholes is that an individual who is truly opposed to equality, is simply an asshole. Even assholes opposed to equality are still entitled to the same rights as anyone else, but the consequences of being an asshole (people not respecting or associating with you because you acted like a disrespectful asshole) are not violations of your rights.
‘Feminist’ is one of those terms that seems to have different definitions based on who you ask. I don’t know what you call me but I’m a proponent of Equal Rights Amendment full-stop.
I am a feminist because I believe men and women should have equal rights. I think a lot of people fell for the propaganda that feminism is about women over men or something. The thing a lot of men fail to realize is that “the patriarchy” hurts them too. A lot of the things you see men complain about like being told to “man up” or not being able to express their feelings without being mocked are 100% a side effect of patriarchy.
I will say yes, because I am a woman who has benefited from what feminists did in the past, and don’t believe in strict gender roles for men or women, and my kids were all born as girls, I had to work a lot to get them good education, my focus has necessarily been more on advancing the lives of girls than boys, I didn’t get boys until I married.
I think humanity as a whole is stronger when women are stronger. Empowering women empowers men too, when we all do more we are stronger, it’s not a zero sum thing.
So yeah I think so, yes, soy feminista.
I’d specifically think of myself as an anarchafeminist, so yes, I’d say I’m a feminist. Fuck bullshit gender division, and fuck anybody who thinks someone is less capable because of their genitals or the clothes they wear (or if those things “match” or not)
Yes. I think it’s about thinking patriarchy is bad. Almost always that implies preferring equality; the manosphere dudes massively overblow the support for matriarchy. I’m honestly not sure if I would include equality in the definition or not, because of how little that distinction matters in practice.
I should also include that I think patriarchy is real (because anything else is flat-Earth tier, look at Afghanistan), and that many remnants of it still exist in the West. Sometimes people who oppose something they call feminism claim that there’s not.
Neigsendoig and I are not. Proverbs 31:16-18 is the reason.
She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks.
She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night.
You sure you copy-pasted the right verse number from whatever?
Yeah, from Proverbs 31:10 on this chapter is describing what the author considers a “worthy woman”.
This is an odd passage. It seems to be encouraging the poor to drink to forget their poverty.
6 Give strong drink to him who is ready to perish, and wine to the bitter in soul.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.Proverbs 31:6-7 WEB translation (public domain).
I would’ve used YLT, personally speaking. Otherwise, Proverbs 31 is the reason Neigsendoig and I choose not to be feminists.
Yes. Because we should strive to treat everyone equally
As a CIS male I consider myself a feminist because I recognize that women continue to face systemic challenges that demand more than just abstract ideals of equality. To me, feminism goes beyond egalitarianism. It’s not just about treating everyone the same, it’s about recognizing the different challenges people face and working to change the systems that create and sustain those imbalances.
I was raised by my mom and 3 sisters, and that gave me a front-row seat to the everyday injustices women face. Everything from subtle slights to overt discrimination to being victim of abuse. It wasn’t theory for me, it was lived experience, just one degree removed. I’ve seen the strength and resilience of the women in my life, and I’ve also seen what they’ve had to push through simply because of their gender.
Now, as a father with a daughter, I feel an even deeper responsibility to be part of the shift. I don’t just want her to grow up in a world that pays lip service to “equality”. I want her to live in one where she’s safe, respected, and empowered. That means doing more than being “not sexist.” It means actively pushing back against the structures and behaviors (the patriarchy) that holds women back.
I have zero tolerance for toxic masculinity and so-called “alpha male” attitudes that promote dominance, entitlement, and emotional repression. That culture hurts everyone, but it especially harms women by normalizing control and aggression.
I want my daughter and every woman to see examples of men who are allies, not bystanders. Feminism is a promise: to show up, to speak out (or more often shut up), and to help dismantle barriers so that every person, regardless of gender, can thrive without restriction or fear.
Yeah, specifically I’m fairly third wave in that I’ve been convinced of the value of an intersectional perspective, am pro modern sexual liberation (including the freedom to not want it), and generally am more aligned with the feminist critiques of the second wave. Furthermore I find a lot of the fourth wave to a shitshow, though considering the concept of the fourth wave is not based on academic ideas or coherent demands, but rather the idea that social media changed feminist discourse so radically as to constitute a change to a different wave.
Feminism has always had multiple sides, and like most liberatory movements it has people who are cringe, who are counterproductively hostile, and who generally suck. It will try things that don’t work or push things in bad directions. Also college students and young people will do it in ways that look terrible. But feminist theory is also insightful texts that challenge cultural biases. And in a time where rights such as abortion are under attack and government officials are expressing their opposition to women’s suffrage, the principle of equality and fundamental rights remains even if it looks different now from when our grandmothers and great grandmothers were fighting for the right for a bank account.
I think I’m more egalitarian. But this is largely dependent on what you mean by feminism.
I believe all women should have total agency over themselves. I believe they deserve equal pay, treatment, and rights. I believe them when they discuss their issues and the prevalence of sexual assault and abuse.
I also believe that there are structures in our society that unfairly put them above men. For instance, in child care and criminal sentencing. Women tend to get the benefit of doubt that they are the better parent and that the relationship between a child and a mother is generally more important than that of a child and father. Women also, in general, get lighter sentences for the same crime.
I believe that we should be more equal in the value we place on the relationship between a child and it’s father. Raising the importance of how we as a society view that relationship rather than bringing down the importance of the mothers relationship.
I also believe we should lighten the sentences of men to be more in line with women’s sentencing. Although that largely falls in line with my personal opinion that criminal sentencing in this country is far, far too harsh.
Women tend to get the benefit of doubt that they are the better parent and that the relationship between a child and a mother is generally more important than that of a child and father.
ironically I would give this as an example of patriarchy, as precisely the kind of thing feminism aims to eliminate …
Raising the importance of how we as a society view that relationship rather than bringing down the importance of the mothers relationship.
I think the feminist approach might be to stop thinking of children as primarily the responsibility of mothers, that both parents should be responsible and engaged, such that the courts wouldn’t assume the mother is “the parent”, while the father is more like a “provider” (that’s the patriarchal setup - women don’t earn, they stay home and serve as housekeepers and caretakers without pay or economic autonomy, under the control of the patriarch of the family who earns & controls the money).
Although that largely falls in line with my personal opinion that criminal sentencing in this country is far, far too harsh.
if you are talking about the U.S., there is a huge discussion about prison abolitionism, but I think there is significant overlap between various social justice movements, and contemporary feminism has been focused on recognizing how interconnected these struggles are (we can’t just narrowly consider “women”, as that often leads to only considering the experiences and rights of cis, middle and upper class, white, and able-bodied women).
