Why does everyone suddenly seem to think it’s ok to say the R word again? I feel like I hadn’t heard it in years and suddenly everyone around me is using it, and I see it on Reddit all the time. Am I imagining it? Is anyone seeing this? I don’t even know what to say when it’s suddenly just everyone in a group and everyone acts like it’s normal.
I don’t know exactly why its usage would come up more frequently again. But I feel bad because when I grew up, the word was used frequently, and I never made the connection to it being offensive.
I’m always terrified I’m going to say it or something else that could hurt someone or offend them. Like I wouldn’t want to make someone feel bad because I’m being foolish.
On the flip side, I’ve never been one to let words hold so much power over me. I feel like words and language are very flexible, and so words don’t bother me unless I know someone intentionally is trying to be rude towards me.
But again, that’s just me, and I know for others that’s not the case. So, I’m always trying to be mindful. I guess what I’m trying to say is that some people using it might not realise how it can make others feel. So try not to take it all to heart. Hopefully, it’s just a phase that will pass soon enough.
Edit: one thing I have noticed is as political tensions have risen over the past decade, I feel like I’ve seen way more discourse online in general. I suppose that could just be a coincidence. It could be just due to more people having access to the internet overall. One thing I found when I used reddit a lot, was that sometimes young people could be the rudest and most hurtful. I sometimes wonder if it’s just due to a developing brain and the emotional fluctuations people can get in their teens? I don’t know
I’ve noticed this as well, and I have no idea where it’s coming from. If you see this on Beehaw, please report it, though, we’re definitely not okay with slurs of any kind.
Just confirming this as an admin for the visibility.
What word are you referring to?
Adding it here as spoiler text for those who don’t know
spoiler
retarded
Retarded, I think. Definitely not Riskable! Nobody mentions my name anymore 🤷
Maybe put a spoiler around that
Aw, Riskable :(
It’s breaching out of the edgy circles into normie culture again, I think
This. Lots of people at my work have been casually using it. Started around a year ago I’d say. We’re in a highly regulated industry and there’s usually lots of “decorum”. Feels like a societal shift.
I have been noticing and pondering this as well.
My only thought is that perhaps, although it was shamed for a while, the people who used it at it’s peak have continued to use it in private settings. But now their children are of age that they are comfortable spouting it on the Internet and in person, thus bringing out anyone else who wants to say it, whether just to make people uncomfortable or they grew up with it, or otherwise don’t know any better or haven’t learned empathy
This is interesting to think about because I might be one of the last generations of people who existed physically with one another more often than we would text or message one another. Since my old man hat is on, back in my day if you let one fly like this there were immediate social consequences. Everyone would go silent and look at you in disapproval and the person who was really invested in expunging the word would, at that moment, explain why saying that word was unacceptable. The person who said it of course wouldn’t have a change of heart, but they would learn that if they wanted to participate socially they would have to watch their language.
Now that it costs $100 to leave the house and most socialization takes place behind in a non-rich communication medium there isn’t really a consequence like there used to be. In most online “communities” no one is actually in community with one another and have no reason to be pro-social other than wanting to be pro-social. Trolling has always been a problem, but now that more of the population in general is communicating primarily on the channels where trolling is happening, trolling is now a political and social problem.
Back in my day people were throwing the r word around without consequences. Basically using it as a synonym for idiot or dumbass. It didn’t start being brought up as an issue until well into my adulthood. I don’t really associate it with people who are disabled because of that. That being said I try not to use it now.
I really do think about this from time to time as to why we ever even used this word. I grew up the same as you where we all said it and used it as a replacement word for “ass” in situations where cussing wasn’t allowed but you needed a word that hit a bit harder than calling someone stupid. I can’t ever remember a time anyone I knew using it as a slur because someone would beat your ass if you got caught bullying anyone disabled. Now that I know that it is offensive I don’t use it. But for me it’s a bit weird fully relating to the current perception of the word in today’s society because I still have mostly positive memories of goofing off with friends associated with it.
Stupid was a medical term similar to the r word. It got replaced because people started using it as a slur. So did the r word. I wonder if people will start using neurodivergent or some other term as a slur, forcing the medical community to adopt another term once more.
I agree. The same thing with the words idiot and moron. I find the whole evolution and usage of words to be fascinating.
Dumb too, but it meant mute. Quite weird this one.
Ohhhh retard, this whole time I was thinking you were all talking about rape.
Where I’m from in Australia it’s used a lot, almost no one takes offence to it because it’s accepted in its other meaning of idiot. Those that do get told to grow up, much like people who laugh at the use of the word gay for happy.
I’m always amused at how different cultures handle language. Can’t imagine these here:
…but I would love to try them sometime. Would be fun to hand out at pride :)
They’re very tasty one of my favourite icecreams just a shame I don’t like people who are missing toes
We know that moderation standards have gotten worse, recently. Pick a random big web community hosting company, and it’s likely find that they have laid off big parts of their content moderation team, in the last 24 months.
In spite of the evidence of both my professional expertise, and simple observation; I have received many assurances that AI is definitely picking up the slack.
I say this as some defense of the average human. The algorithms and staff that pair us with each other online for communication have undoubtedly gotten substantially worse, recently.
It’s possible that the average living human has not actually gotten worse… Okay, I’ll admit, I think they totally have. I think all that lead paint expose “that didn’t hurt us” is finally kicking into full force for many of us.
Edit: I see some correlation - the average CEO getting scammed into bad AI purchases is the right age for the lead explanation…
Yep, I see it on Lemmy all the time, often from Shit.just.works users.
You’re not imagining it.
I’ve seen it (and many other ableist slurs) used far too often, especially for a site that is generally supposed to be more left leaning (which tbf isn’t saying much when it comes to combatting ableism because we seem to have very few true allies) but is also full of tech-bros, who love punching down at others based on perceived intelligence, and who also have quite a lot of crossover with 4chan type cesspits, so sadly it isn’t unexpected.
I call it out it when I see it, and generally block and report, but what I find most frustrating is that mods throughout lemmy/fediverse (again, even on the most supposedly left leaning instances like lemmy.ml) just ignore the reports and don’t remove the comments (I know people are busy, I don’t expect instant action, I give it a week or two in general before I check the modlog).
I’ve had to block several large communities, most that I’m actually interested in (mostly tech and science related, again, places where people love feeling superior based on perceived intelligence), because I get the message - making people like me feel safe and included isn’t a priority in those spaces, so I refuse to occupy them.Whether the privileged group accept it or not, that is the result of using slurs - making already marginalised people feel unwelcome and excluded.
And when they tell me not to be so easily offended, I link this (or maybe this or this) with the full knowledge that they will probably never read it, but with the hope that someone else might, and that it might make them reconsider their use of certain words (though I don’t hold my breath in anticipation of society at large giving a shit).
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can mobilize an entire society in violent hate against me. And we should never forget that fact.
Great ending to that piece on offense vs reinforcement of systemic oppression. Since this is the Chat community, I am interested in discussing some of the arguments in the pieces you linked.
In the Affinity piece, Stop Using Intelligence-Based Insults If You Care About Disabled People, they make the argument that essentially any intelligence-based insult is inherently ableist, even if not deployed against someone with a disability, but then use WW1-era eugenicists’ attempts to weaponize intelligence to attack the idea of intelligence at all, claiming
Thus ‘intelligence’ as a concept has ableist (as well as racist and xenophobic) foundations
This is quite the claim, given that ‘intelligence’ as a concept has existed for hundreds or even thousands of years, and the author gives no historical evidence of it being founded with that meaning. It most certainly did not originate with Alfred Binet and Theodore Simon, as the author tries to imply at the end.
It also somewhat contradicts the second link, Alternatives to ableist terms, which lists ‘ignorant’ and ‘inept’ (among others) as acceptable replacements for ‘stupid’. If any insult to someone’s intelligence is ableist, how can you offer replacements without them being ableist as well?
All words that can be used to attack a person, will always be more effective and more-often-deployed against marginalized groups, because of the intrinsic power disparity that exists that makes a group marginalized. And some should be marginalized (e.g. Nazis). And society has and will always need to attack people, because people do commit acts that need to be called out and even shamed over, to dissuade them and others from repeating them. Social groups that cannot attack intrusion are vulnerable to subversion by anyone willing to break with their social norms.
For instance, in the case of the now-toast GOP ghoul who insisted that women’s bodies can “shut down” pregnancies resulting from “legitimate r***”, is calling it “misinformed”, “incorrect”, “mean”, or “silly”, really the appropriate reaction? None of those convey, through their tone or meaning, the seriousness of the breach of acceptability that his statement is. Sure, they are correct, but it certainly doesn’t signal to anyone else that they’re going to face a harsh reprimand if they echo his rhetoric?
There was quite a lot of ink spilt publicly shaming him, not so much with technical refutations of the ways he is scientifically incorrect, but by viciously attacking his intelligence and character. He lost his reelection bid following that incident, but would he have if he had simply been called “misinformed”?
The Words and Offense piece differentiates between “oppressive slurs”, and non-oppressive ones:
An oppressive slur fits more towards a mixture of definition a and b (an insulting or disparaging remark or innuendo that has a shaming or degrading effect) and is additionally built into structures of systemic oppression.
But the Affinity piece does not seem to distinguish between them?
Is all language that attacks a person inherently bad? And if so, does that mean that it is never appropriate to attack someone (verbally), even in defense, even to stop them normalizing harmful rhetoric that “mobilize[s] an entire society in violent hate”?
I’m seriously not debating this with someone trying so hard to justify continuing to use intelligence based insults that they literally compare disabled people to Nazis (who are not, and never have been a marginalised and oppressed group like the disabled people they literally mass murdered. Fuck you) to try and make their logic work.
If you are actually willing and able to set your defensiveness and biases aside, feel free to read through the links I left in reply Vodulas, or continue to do your own research in to what disabled people have to say about the matter, not those who aren’t directly impacted.
Either way, I am here to reassure a comrade, not philosophise with ableds about ableism, you either listen to disabled people and do your best to be an ally, or you don’t, that’s your choice.
Whoa, I was not “comparing disabled people to Nazis”, I said that Nazis should be an oppressed and marginalized group.
what disabled people have to say about the matter
I literally was quoting the links you recommended to read!
trying so hard to justify continuing to use intelligence based insults
There is a disparity in YOUR SOURCES between how they are discussing slurs, and I am asking you what YOU believe, between those sources, is the answer:
- Affinity is taking an absolute stance against intelligence-based slurs in any form
- Cultrface is directly offering intelligence-based slurs like “ignorant” and “inept” as acceptable alternatives to ‘stupid’
- Genderbitch is differentiating between “oppressive” slurs and non-oppressive ones, and saying only the power dynamics matter
I’ve removed my first comment, since it was too unproductive.
fwiw you’ve conveyed the same general question i have about the situation, albeit far more eloquently than i would have been able to
i am totally down to stop using words that disabled people find offensive, but i need alternatives to express that someone is being needlessly / purposely ignorant or otherwise harmful and is generally worthy of scorn and contempt
which isn’t to say that providing that is the onus on disabled people (it’s really not, their only real obligation is to express their experiences)… but it does make it a lot easier to action on the request
it’s also kind of interesting to approach this conversation both as an outsider, but also as someone who these words do apply to in some capacity
Those are some awesome resources, yoinking those for sure.
Ableism and fatmisia are some the last bastions of acceptable and casual bigotry, so they are for sure the hardest to get rid of. Usually when you bring up the eugenics origin, at least for people around me, folks tend to take a step back. Often I lead with that.
Fat shaming is likely to be the most difficult to combat, because it’s based on an unhealthy condition anyone can slip into, so it has a warning component similar to drunk-driving shaming, the Darwin awards, various “fails”, etc. where people suffer the consequences of their own choices.
it’s based on an unhealthy condition anyone can slip into
I am not saying this is what you believe, but you’re right that people for sure over simplify it into that, and say things like “just eat less and exercise more.” The truth is much more complicated. There are a ton of factors involved and often people have unrelated conditions they can’t get help with because doctors will just say “you just need to lose weight.”
That and a lot of “overweight” people are not unhealthy.
As usual, the truth is far less cut and dry as people think, and should just stop shaming people for it.
Those are some awesome resources, yoinking those for sure.
The more the merrier!
Ableism and fatmisia are some the last bastions of acceptable and casual bigotry
Yup, the other day I had to really quickly back out of some comments sections on articles related to fast food because the comments were so full of fat shaming it made me rage. People don’t think twice about either.
Usually when you bring up the eugenics origin, at least for people around me, folks tend to take a step back.
In my experience they get even more defensive, because eugenics is something they recognise as bad, but not their casual ableism, or the existence of a relationship between the two… But then these are randoms on the internet I’m talking about, not people actually close to me, they’d probably be much more reasonable if it ever came to it lol
You have inspired an infodump, some links specifically go in to the eugenics connection, others are a bit more broad (I also have a bunch about the relationship between capitalism, “productivity”, and ableism, and some on the myth of independence, which I wasn’t sure were closely related enough, but am more than happy to share as well!) if you want more articles to yoink:
https://www.drakemusic.org/blog/nim-ralph/understanding-disability/
https://www.yorku.ca/edu/unleading/ableism/ (the entire project is worth a look)
https://www.northwestern.edu/onebook/the-reluctant-mr-darwin/essays/darwin-morality.html
https://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/may/09/evolutionary-theory-gone-wrong-darwin
https://web.archive.org/web/20230605065733/https://ollibean.com/intelligence-is-an-ableist-concept/
https://disabledfeminists.com/2009/10/23/ableist-word-profile-intelligence/ (the entire blog is worth a look)
https://gracelapointe.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-online-ableism-424e26f1bb2a
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/09/symptoms-executive-dysfunction/
Hell yes, thanks for the resources!
Sure thing, I’m always happy to share useful info!
Also, was the “hell yes” to more links or just in general? You’re good either way, don’t worry… 😂
To more links!
Cool. I figured I’d just troll my bookmarks and paste anything related, but there was more than I realised lol. I did cut back, but this still feels like a bit much, sorry 😂
Language related:
https://fightingtalk.substack.com/p/disability-is-not-a-dirty-word
https://30daysofautism.blog/2023/03/21/lets-talk-about-language-is-disability-a-bad-word/
https://sailhelps.org/so-whats-wrong-with-the-word-handicapped/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/grammar-snobbery/
https://www.ncmh.info/2019/04/04/fallacy-functioning-labels/
https://graymattersmd.com/functioning-labels-autism/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/alternatives-to-oppressive-language/
https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html
https://www.learningforjustice.org/magazine/no-joking-matter-words-and-disability
Capitalism/“productivity” related:
https://dailyfreepress.com/2020/11/19/mind-your-business-ableism-is-rooted-in-capitalism/
https://atmos.earth/productivity-culture-ableism-ecofeminism-capitalism-the-slow-grind/
https://thestrand.ca/capitalism-ableism-and-the-glamorization-of-productivity/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/09/24/pers-s24.html
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1039676445/laziness-does-not-exist-devon-price
Independence related:
https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/changing-the-framework-disability-justice/
Covid related:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/09/xdvx-m09.html?pk_kwd=wsws
https://www.donotpanic.news/p/its-all-out-war-on-the-vulnerable?utm_source=publication-search
https://www.donotpanic.news/p/mass-disabling-event-denial?utm_source=publication-search
Internalized ableism:
https://www.neurodiverging.com/what-is-internalized-ableism-neurodivergent-people-need-to-know/
https://www.autisticparentsuk.org/post/overcoming-internalised-ableism
Other/general:
https://www.fullspectrumchildcare.com/blog/to-be-a-radical-crip-and-the-power-in-identifying-as-one
https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/2017/08/06/forced-intimacy-an-ableist-norm/
https://privateplacespublicspacesblog.wordpress.com/about-the-project/
https://blueannoyed.wordpress.com/2024/04/30/welcome-to-the-crip-warehouse/
https://www.womenspress.com/what-can-feminists-make-of-the-eugenicist-history-of-abortion/
https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/images/other-images/9781452963495_intro.pdf
https://disability-memorial.org/
https://themighty.com/topic/disability/tweet-thread-straw-bans-disability/
https://medium.com/@thorafelicitybell/our-environmentalism-has-to-be-intersectional-4cf824ab2aa4
https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-disabilities
https://www.bvanudgeconsulting.com/bias-of-the-week/just-world-hypothesis/
lol, It is not too much at all. I mean, I won’t be reading it all at once, but I love having resources
I don’t see it. But then, I haven’t been on Reddit for almost a whole year now and by all accounts, it’s devolved into a right-leaning, bot-filled shitbox even more than it was when I left. The WSB crowd never had a problem with that word before, and by now those are the only type of user truly left there that isn’t some kind of AI.
I’m not seeing it… but it might be due to Reddit having become the R word for me, never having been into T (𝕏), refusing to go on TT or D, and FB still having wide whack-a-mole word filters (main issue being flerfers, and “praise God for the AI stairs” kind). Haven’t seen it on the fediverse yet, but that might be due to curation.
Yeah I also think its probably because beehaw in general has a really moderated community space in general so not much negativity breaks through the cracks.
The US is fascist now. Lots of inappropriate stuff us making a comeback.
