I’m going to use “you” a lot in this post but know I’m using the global definition, I’m not directly addressing you.
Right, but you must realize that is your perception and not reality.
If you’ll allow me to take some liberties and use you as an example :
They are asking you to change your perception of them.
You are asking them to change/disregard their reality to conform to your existing perception.
One can be done, one cannot. They’ll still be what they are and now their way of defining themselves is forbidden, by who? Why? This path seems completely irrational.
And what value does your perception hold anyway? The meaning of every word, sound, and thought in your head is arbitrary, it’s all made up. So obviously language needs to be calibrated with reality from time to time.
Language has changed to such an extreme degree that you wouldn’t understand your own language 300, 1,000, 5,000 years ago. Why not be upset about that? Seems kinda silly to start a movement to rollback english to 1724, eh?
That is how I feel about those who oppose groups of people seeking to better define themselves. “I don’t feel what they describe, they’ve organized millions of people who claim to feel the same way to fuck with me, I’m mad!”
TLDR, it’s logical for language to change and people to carve out niches. Humans aren’t born male and female only, so it seems silly to puritanically declare that because of an ancient understanding of humans, we should ignore modern biology.
From a post I made earlier this month, the intersex population in the United States alone would comprise 10% of the population of Nebraska. These are people born, quite literally, between gender. Non-binary.
Where did this come from? Why am I grouped into some kind of hater group suddenly?
Language has changed … silly to start a movement to rollback english to 1724
Ya and I was commenting on how I don’t like the choose of word in this specific change. Why not use better words when you start to describe something new?
You can argue that about any label of any kind but we have to live in reality, which means people are going to sort themselves and others. “We know who we are by who we are not.“ I just don’t see that stopping.
We also have to acknowledge inequality. It’s like “black owned businesses.” Yeah in an equal society we would all just say “businesses” but we don’t live in one so we need to highlight a group of business owners that are inherently at a disadvantage.
I think it’s just the term. “Binary” isn’t exactly neutral as it can imply narrow minded. Also labelling non-X imply that everyone else is X which often includes too many people that are kind of in the middle / doesn’t really care.
Also have you ever considered the fact that maybe you (or other people) don’t really care about gender labels because you were assigned as the gender you prefer? It seems a bit silly to criticise a group who currently faces a lot of discrimination based on their gender preference. Also are you aware that your argument is often used to discredit the experiences of and as a reason to discriminate against people who identify as non-binary?
I just mean this whole premise. The idea that being nonbinary is its own binary. It’s a categorically different comparison. The “binaries” OP sets up are a:b versus (a+b):c, when really it should be a+b+c+d etc.
The comment you were replying to wasn’t about the image in the op though. It was a discussion about someone not liking people who do not identify as man or woman referring to themselves as non-binary.
Blenders. Gender ephemeral. Intangibles. An even cooler fourth option, probably.
There are tons of cool names you could go with when your identity lies outside of preconceived boundaries (and pretty much transcends them). But, non-binary’s pretty clinical-sounding, so I guess it’s easier to work into a professional setting or something.
I always think there is a we vs them vibe in the non-binary thing which is kind of toxic
I dunno if there is much “we” inside the non-binary community. Like Non-binary is an umbrella term that encapsulates everything from a both/neither/almost but not quite binary/gender fluid betwixt multiple states/people who identify as trans non-binary, people who identify as non-trans non-binary/ cultural third genders/ political gender activists /DID people with alters that swap… There’s a lot of different concepts and sometimes contradictory needs there.
Like people tend to just group non-binary people into a third category and don’t really ask questions of individuals what their actual deal is. I blew a friend’s mind recently when he introduced his enbyfriend to me and while we were out on a walk I asked “Apart from the umbrella non-binary term how do you conceptualize yourself?” because he had never thought to ask that question of either of us.
I always think there is a we vs them vibe in the non-binary thing which is kind of toxic
I’m going to use “you” a lot in this post but know I’m using the global definition, I’m not directly addressing you.
Right, but you must realize that is your perception and not reality.
If you’ll allow me to take some liberties and use you as an example :
They are asking you to change your perception of them.
You are asking them to change/disregard their reality to conform to your existing perception.
One can be done, one cannot. They’ll still be what they are and now their way of defining themselves is forbidden, by who? Why? This path seems completely irrational.
And what value does your perception hold anyway? The meaning of every word, sound, and thought in your head is arbitrary, it’s all made up. So obviously language needs to be calibrated with reality from time to time.
Language has changed to such an extreme degree that you wouldn’t understand your own language 300, 1,000, 5,000 years ago. Why not be upset about that? Seems kinda silly to start a movement to rollback english to 1724, eh?
That is how I feel about those who oppose groups of people seeking to better define themselves. “I don’t feel what they describe, they’ve organized millions of people who claim to feel the same way to fuck with me, I’m mad!”
TLDR, it’s logical for language to change and people to carve out niches. Humans aren’t born male and female only, so it seems silly to puritanically declare that because of an ancient understanding of humans, we should ignore modern biology.
From a post I made earlier this month, the intersex population in the United States alone would comprise 10% of the population of Nebraska. These are people born, quite literally, between gender. Non-binary.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say
Where did this come from? Why am I grouped into some kind of hater group suddenly?
Ya and I was commenting on how I don’t like the choose of word in this specific change. Why not use better words when you start to describe something new?
This sounds like a horror story. What?
You can argue that about any label of any kind but we have to live in reality, which means people are going to sort themselves and others. “We know who we are by who we are not.“ I just don’t see that stopping.
We also have to acknowledge inequality. It’s like “black owned businesses.” Yeah in an equal society we would all just say “businesses” but we don’t live in one so we need to highlight a group of business owners that are inherently at a disadvantage.
That’s so sad to me. From my POV being non-binary isn’t aggressive. It’s just that there are more important things to worry about than gender.
I think it’s just the term. “Binary” isn’t exactly neutral as it can imply narrow minded. Also labelling non-X imply that everyone else is X which often includes too many people that are kind of in the middle / doesn’t really care.
Also have you ever considered the fact that maybe you (or other people) don’t really care about gender labels because you were assigned as the gender you prefer? It seems a bit silly to criticise a group who currently faces a lot of discrimination based on their gender preference. Also are you aware that your argument is often used to discredit the experiences of and as a reason to discriminate against people who identify as non-binary?
Like, didn’t I just say that it’s the vibe of the word that I don’t like? Therefore either
and not what you say at all IMO
so what would you suggest people who do not want to be referred to as man or woman call themselves?
On the gender spectrum?
I don’t know, I think this debate is silly.
It’s easy to call a discussion silly if it doesn’t affect you personally.
I just mean this whole premise. The idea that being nonbinary is its own binary. It’s a categorically different comparison. The “binaries” OP sets up are a:b versus (a+b):c, when really it should be a+b+c+d etc.
The comment you were replying to wasn’t about the image in the op though. It was a discussion about someone not liking people who do not identify as man or woman referring to themselves as non-binary.
Line 1 and line 2 are different thoughts.
Blenders. Gender ephemeral. Intangibles. An even cooler fourth option, probably.
There are tons of cool names you could go with when your identity lies outside of preconceived boundaries (and pretty much transcends them). But, non-binary’s pretty clinical-sounding, so I guess it’s easier to work into a professional setting or something.
Enbies? Although the base of the term does come back around to the original phrase.
grogsnarl the fifth, conqueror of silesia
I dunno if there is much “we” inside the non-binary community. Like Non-binary is an umbrella term that encapsulates everything from a both/neither/almost but not quite binary/gender fluid betwixt multiple states/people who identify as trans non-binary, people who identify as non-trans non-binary/ cultural third genders/ political gender activists /DID people with alters that swap… There’s a lot of different concepts and sometimes contradictory needs there.
Like people tend to just group non-binary people into a third category and don’t really ask questions of individuals what their actual deal is. I blew a friend’s mind recently when he introduced his enbyfriend to me and while we were out on a walk I asked “Apart from the umbrella non-binary term how do you conceptualize yourself?” because he had never thought to ask that question of either of us.