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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: September 8th, 2023

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  • Hey guys, this right here is a super valuable point to address and really strikes straight to the heart of the ability of a system like this to give the illusion of choice. People absolutely will still think, despite this, they are still in control and we need to address it not dismiss it.

    I’m undoing the downvote on this comment, it absolutely is a big part of the conversation, even if you think it’s naive.






  • While a person intent on hurting officers would likely have distain, they would be more likely to act cool and calm until they pull out their gun as to keep the officer from sensing a threat and reacting to it.

    You make a great point. I can see why cops would be on edge and would rather risk taking someone into custody unnecessarily rather than putting their life at risk. Based on your reasoning they would probably be hyper vigilant for signs a stop might go wrong. Given an employers responsibility to provide a safe workplace, they are probably trained to err on the side of caution, right?

    Take a look at all of the officer’s actions and attempt to see them from a reasonable person’s perspective.

    A rather obvious diss and strawman argument, but I see your point. What you are ignoring though is the reasonable person who is employed as a cop. If you had that job, how much would you be willing to risk death on a daily basis to give people the benefit of the doubt?

    He punched the driver while he was handcuffed. He lied about a 25ft law and then expanded it beyond what the made-up law would allow. After 18 minutes of having him in handcuffs, he only started to write the citations, the whole reason for the stop, when a supervisor asked him if they were already done.

    So sue the fuck out of him! That’s what the courts are for. That’s a separate issue from whether the cop decided he was non-cooperative at a level that warranted intervention.

    You’re arguing that we should defer to the officers because of a million imaginary what-ifs. That’s not how this works.

    That’s the whole point of qualified immunity. Cops are the ones willing to wade into the shit on a daily basis. They put their lives on the line, so they get the discretion to decide they are going to cuff you for the rest of the interaction if they feel unsafe.

    If they break the law, sue them. If policy is bad, lobby for change. People wrote the laws, people set the culture, people can change it. But just whining online that some sports guy you like wasn’t treated as politely as you would have liked is like having a quick wank, it makes you feel good, but won’t change anything.

    If you think you can do better, go apply for a job with the force, show us what the police could be. If you are going to let someone else do it so you don’t have to take the risk and can sit safely at home whining about it. Sure you can get some attention, but you aren’t going to be taken very seriously.


  • Again, I’m not talking about any instance other than the one we have been looking at together here. Personally, I believe cops should always assume they are going too be on trial every time they shoot someone they should know it is always going to be a potentially life altering every for them.

    I’m this case, the driver didn’t say “oh buddy, you fucked up, see you in court” while complying, he showed the officer his distain and reluctance every step of the way and at that point the officer is going to ask themselves if they might be in danger, and if they think they might be, they are trained to do something about it. In this case taking him into custody.

    Question for you. If he wanted to, could he have shot the cop? Was there a gun in the car?



  • So In this specific instance, the specific instance we are talking about, the instance that is the topic of this discussion, no one.

    The obvious follow up question is, if he were rolling up the tinted windows so he could retrieve a weapon without the cop seeing, or if he had taken off at high speed in his little sports car and run a high speed chase before crashing, could multiple people have died?

    I’ll just give you the obvious answer, “yes”.

    The reason your answer is naive isn’t because cops don’t do terrible things, they do, and they should absolutely be held accountable. It is because cops are also often on unpredictable situations and if you can’t look at something like this and see where pulling him out of the car could be justified, you can’t argue in good faith where the line is between this and a true abuse of power.

    And if you can’t do that, the people in power will never take your argument seriously, and your will continue to be largely ignored.



  • Sure, but once they establish a pattern of non-compliance it doesn’t reset with each new instruction. They expect he will resist getting out of the car based on his refusal to roll down the window. At that point they have to choose whether to get him out of the car quickly, or risk non-compliance issue with that, which could involve fleeing or hitting people with his car.

    When officer or public safety are at risk they will always choose to take someone into custody to stabilize the situation and then reassess from there.

    The situation with the window can’t be separated from the treatment with the door.