Do we all really think this is a great idea when fascism and toxic masculinity are catastrophically growing globally like a late stage mestastized cancer?
Do you think enabling all those men to abusively control their spouses is just the forward march of technological progress?
People don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with this tool.
I don’t want to share my location nor have anyone else’s shared with me.
Friends and partners can text “I’ll be there in 5”
My friend shares her location with her mother. Her mother then nags her with like “Are you seeing someone new? You’re spending a lot of time in north brooklyn now.” Like, who needs that, or even the temptation of that?
A tech solution is not going to fix a social/mental problem like fear of cheating.
Hell, my wife generally knows where I’m going when I go out but only because I want to tell her and usually invite her. I’d hate for her to be able to ask why I’m at a restaurant instead of the bar I said I was going to, even if I’ll tell her about it when I get home
My partner and I share locations. We check sometimes how far away from home they are when walking the dog, or coming from work. Also handy when one of us “loses” their phone and the other can see it’s at home/in the car/at work. But we have trust, and don’t need to check where the other is spending time.
This article constantly reloads and alternates between showing and hiding some warning about my privacy lol. Unreadable.
My wife and I have it on Google Maps. I can’t remember why, but we’ve had it for years. I think my wife worries if I’m safe sometimes. I think I check it less than once a year. I checked it once to see if they were on their way home once, that’s about it.
If you sacrifice freedom for security, then you deserve neither.
Patriot act, Snowden, Cambridge Analytica
we already done sacrificed freedom. This is the FO stage
“safety is certainly a big part of the appeal for many users – so I allow the app to alert him each time I reach my front door.” I’m finding that people are irrationally paranoid these days. They see random acts of violence in the news and think it might happen to them but its so statistically unlikely given these are already unlikely events and these people usually middle class people living in nice areas.
Humans are awful at accessing risk and chance, one of the reasons casinos and lotteries thrive.
Look at fear of flying for an example, all statistics say you are many many many times over more likely to get into a car accident on your way to the airport, than during the flight. Even when the ride to the airport is usually short and the flight very long. Yet people are afraid of flying, but not going by car. By percentage, there are of course those, rightly so, afraid of cars as well.
Risk assessment is probability and severity. The probability can be vanishingly low, but if the severity is astoundingly high then acting like a high risk situation could be appropriate.
Take asteroids. The last planet killer to hit us was 94million years ago. A rudimentary estimate could put the probably as 1:94mil. The severity of an asteroid impact of that magnitude is off the charts, so it is reasonable to consider it a risk and act accordingly to spend resources to search for and track asteroid trajectories.
The severity of abduction, murder, and rape is probably pretty high for most people, so considering it a risk even with a very small probability is not unreasonable.
Location sharing doesn’t prevent any of that though?
Like, no criminal who would want to rape/murder/abduct you knows whether you are sharing your location with anyone. They would do so regardless before anyone can arrive to help you.
Also, no kidnapper on this planet is stupid enough to take your phone with them. You have a slightly higher chance for authorities to be alerted sooner but that’s about it.
Oh yeah, location sharing will have almost no effect those risks. Totally agree.
Just disagreeing that low probability of occurrence automatically means the risk assessment should be low.
the flight very long.
IIRC most accidents happen during take-off/landing.
Once you’re up there it’s chill.It doesn’t really matter how you measure it, number of flights, duration, distance traveled, etc… No matter which, air travel is by far the safest option. The only other that comes anywhere near is trains. Going by car is bad (though motorcycle is even worse), but so many are afraid of flying that they instead takes the car. Which is among the worst things you could do from a safety point of view.
They see random acts of violence in the news
Which is the only thing the news shows them to begin with… almost as if they cherry-pick stuff.
BREAKING NEWS: Girl gets home safely after night out. More at 11.
Safety concerns aside, you should trust your partner enough to not need to track them
For me, knowing my spouse’s location is just convenient for knowing ETA without bothering her. It’s not really about trust at all
I figure if my phone manufacturer and cell providers are tracking me all day, why not also my closest friends and family.
Exactly my thought. It’s nothing to do with jealousy and just kind of convenient if you need to meet up or are seeing if they’re on their way home and can get dinner started or whatever.
Same. We both follow each other and neither of us care. We mostly have it enabled for the “just in case” scenario that anything happens to one of us. We can make sure that we know of our last known location.
I’ve also had her use it one time I was away from home in NYC. And I was too drunk to figure out which subway to take to get back to my hotel. So she walked me through step by step while on the phone with me. It fucking rocked.
There should also be enough trust for either side to never use it except for emergencies.
If a partner demand they have it on to prove they’re not cheating, then they should be looking for a different partner.
The partner demanding that is projecting like a Barco DP2K-32B.
Relationships based on trust?!
Surely you jest!Exactly. My girlfriend will disappear for an entire day and not come home until 10pm. I usually have no idea where she is or what she’s doing (mainly because I forget due to having ADHD), but I don’t worry about it because I know she’ll never cheat. How can a person even be with someone who they don’t trust? Without trust, there is no relationship IMO.
There is the case of the worriers. People who, when not given positive confirmation otherwise, assume the worst. I’m not talking cheating, but like accidents. “He’s 5 minutes late, maybe he got in a car accident and died!” It’s not healthy, but it is common and isn’t a trust issue.That said, my partner doesn’t get to track me, and I have no interest in tracking them.
I don’t think enabling it is a good idea though. Yeah, they might be worried, but they need to learn to handle those thoughts. Feeding them can only make it worse.
I mean that’s me to a T but I just suppress those thoughts.
that doesn’t always work out the way you’re expecting though, but I agree, trust should be opt-out.
Of all the dystopian things, this is probably the most dystopian thing I’ve read lately.
This is horrible.
Most people my age that I know have location tracking shared with SO’s. It’s considered a step in the relationship.
Grim
It’s be a step out of the relationship with me.
People my age have their whole friend groups on location sharing apps like that, it’s awful.
Why, though?
Witch your age group. Do you mind giving examples where it’s been helpful and maybe examples when it’s not been so helpful?
Like 16-17, I don’t talk to the people that do that too much because they’re not the type of person I like hanging out with, so I don’t really know why they do it.
It’s like an extension of their group chats, on snapchat.
Wtf? Is this the outcome of growing up with helicopter parents or were are those trust issues coming from?
I’m assuming this is a young group, and they’ve grown up in the always-connected, always-surveilled modern world.
I’ve met plenty of people that are surprised or even suspicious when I say that I try to avoid corporations and governments tracking me. I guess the Overton window has shifted so that people expect and accept constant surveillance.
As a fairly privacy conscious person, I also expect and accept that it’s happening too. I don’t think you can be privacy conscious and not accept that. You have to be ignorant to think you can hide it all. I do my best to keep as much data out of their hands as possible though. I don’t agree with it.
When I say accept, I don’t mean live in denial, I mean acquiesce. I resist it, whether that be by avoiding services/products, paying for premium, installing ad blockers or modding things to remove telemetry.
I am aware that my phone company knows where I am and I’m on cameras, but I’m not going to make it easy for the next Cambridge Analytica.
Helicopter parents have got nothing to do with it.
It’s nothing about trust issues- privacy is just a foreign concept to that generation. It was dead and gone before they were born. They take for granted that eveyone has their phone on them at all times and is never unreachable, so knowing where all your friends are is just a matter of convenience.
I’ve actually done a little to combat this, in my personal life (apart from ordinary privacy stuff like librewolf und Linux). I got so sick of the majority of my friends expecting me to reply to every text message within 30 minutes, and then getting extremely offended when I didn’t (simply because I don’t look at my phone that often), that I turned off read-receipts on all my messaging apps, and set my notifications to only arrive in groups at specific times of day.
Then I made a habit of not answering unimportant messages for a few days, until I got the reputation that I pretty much don’t use my phone (I also don’t use conventional social media, and none of my friends even know I’m in lemmy). This worked like a charm! My social life much, much less stressful.
I’ve broken the absurd contract that so many people seem to think they have a right to. My time is now my own. I can highly recommend this system! Of course, I can’t do it for work-related stuff, but it still really has reduced my stress by a lot.
Creepy
I noticed this becoming more common. Young people do so enjoyably. Old people I hear talk about it, it sounds controlling and bordering on unhinged paranoia. Those young people will be old someday too along with whatever sorts of paranoias they develop like all people seem to do
Kids these days® were born into a world of surveillance capitalism, so they have no reference to compare it to.
At least when they get lost because of dementia it’ll be easy to find them.
I don’t know, it’s a pointless thing that I just forgot to turn off at some point. I couldn’t care less if she knows where I am and sometimes I do what her to know, like when I go hiking alone.
Yeah, it is possible to be totally sane about it.
If your partner doesn’t abuse it is fine, but that’s also possible to change at any time.
Further most people don’t know they are in abusive relationships even if it is obvious to others around them so the casually dismissive argument “well abusive couples shouldn’t use it” is a trash argument.
Whether you know it or not does not change the message. Abusive couples shouldn’t not use this app, they shouldn’t be couples.
My point is when people use this argument “Well abusive couples just shouldn’t be couples!” it is a way to dismiss the danger of never ending surveillance that makes an INCREDIBLY problematic leap of condemning people falling into abusive relationships to simply suffer, tough luck… and it demonstrates a callous, ineffective and frankly worrying understanding of how abusive relationships formed in general.
It doesn’t dismiss anything. It’s just a statement of fact. Certainly in certain contexts it could be interpreted that way.
Are you happy with the company that makes the app and the 71960 partner companies with “legitimate interest” knowing where you are all the time too?
Might I suggest this: https://www.zood.xyz/
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
I don’t know why I hadn’t thought about it. For sure I don’t. I hoped that it was secure in some way. Yeah that’s kind of really bad lol
I have my mom’s location, and it’s good because she just turned 64 (I think) five minutes ago, I need to wish her a happy birthday, appreciate the reminder. But when she travels out alone, sometimes it’s nice to know she got back to her hotel without having to bother her about it, so we do the sharing thing. And for hiking alone, sharing your location with someone beforehand just seems like a good idea.
This article is dumb. Location sharing is silly. People will abuse it, and those same people would’ve found some other way to abuse the trust in their relationships anyway. I had girlfriends as a kid who’d demand calls when I was at a party they weren’t at. Dealing with a lack of trust in a relationship is a growing pain.
Dealing with a lack of trust in a relationship is
done by leaving said relationship.
Since you’re one of the few people that admit to you and your partner using it: What do you think about the company knowing where you are at all times?
Yes, somebody pointed that out already. I need to find out more about how it’s done.
If you just see this and, like 20 others, blindly say “you should trust your partner” then you haven’t thought about it at all. If you trust your partner completely, then you trust them to use your location information responsibly, right? So trust does not have any bearing on whether to use it or not.
The issue for me is that we should try to avoid normalising behaviour which enables coercive control in relationships, even if it is practical. That means that even if you trust your partner not to spy on your every move and use the information against you, you shouldn’t enable it because it makes it harder for everyone who can’t trust their partner to that extent to justify not using it.
On a more practical level, controlling behaviour doesn’t always manifest straight away. What’s safe now may not be safe in two years, and if it does start ramping up later, it may be much, much harder to back out of agreements made today which end up impacting your safety.
My mom the other day sent me like 5 texts in a row because I didn’t see them while working. Had to stop and tell her “For the past century, if most people wanted to contact their kids they waited months for letters to go back and forth. No need to panic over not talking for a day.”
oh good lord no. years, decades, centuries even couples have trusted each other WITHOUT the need to tracking their where abouts. suddenly this is something we need? no it isn’t. but sure, you go ahead and slap a tag on your “loved one” so you know where they are at all times and so will whatever company is selling your data from said tag.
I didn’t say it’s something you need. Read the rest of my comment.
Privacy is something that I think needs to be actively encouraged. It is a right, and thinks like location tracking are creeping their way into daily life and eroding that right.
No one should have the ability to violate that. And we shouldn’t be making it easier to.
I trust my family. Trust them enough that they have the passcode to my phone and can easily open it at any time.
But I’m not sharing location. How will I sneak out to buy gifts if they get a notification when I leave work? Nope.
If you trust your partner completely, then you trust them to use your location information responsibly, right?
No. But it isn’t about that, anyway. Those apps sell your location data to advertisers and governments, and I’m not installing that bullshit on my phone after I kicked google off of it with grapheneOS.
Apple absolutely doesn’t sell that information. The way they implemented it, they can’t even collect the information to sell.
Bullshit, why would they follow the law here? The penalties are hilariously tiny compared to the profits.
X to doubt, and that doesn’t help people who don’t use walledgardenOS
I appreciate the sentiment here, but I disagree with the premise in the first paragraph. It sounds like the age-old “nothing to hide” argument.
I trust my SO with my location information and I have nothing to hide, but I don’t provide it because they don’t need it. That’s it. Why should I compromise my privacy and potentially security just because I trust someone? That’s dumb. They don’t need it so I don’t provide it, that’s my primary reason and that should be enough.
I have other reasons too, such as:
- I don’t trust my or my SO’s phone manufacturer to keep that data confidential, and I don’t want them selling that to someone
- I don’t trust my government to steal that information en masse, and I’d really rather not trigger some alarm somewhere
- I don’t trust most of the apps on my phone with location information, and I’d really rather not trust my phone’s app security to prevent them from getting it
- breaches happen, and I’d really rather my location information not end up in criminals’ hands
And so on. There’s no upside and tons of potential downsides, so why do it?
There’s no upside
- Know when they come home or if they are stuck in traffic
- “oh you are still in the store can you get me …”
- security if they get kidnapped
It is insanely useful to know where your partner is. It is not necessary. It is still useful. I would not allow my partner 24/7 location information. It is still useful. I don’t trust any app/manufacturer that allows such a feature. It is still useful.
Know when they come home or if they are stuck in traffic
Look at maps and see how traffic is on their route if they’re late
“oh you are still in the store can you get me …”
Tell each other when you are going to the store beforehand and ask if you need anything.
security if they get kidnapped
Very unlikely to happen in the first place and competent kidnappers would toss their phone right away anyway.
-They’ll be here when they be here
-The tracker is also a communicator. “Hey are you still at the store? Good can you grab…” doesn’t add that much time to that convo
-
My SO can just call me, and they do about every other day when I’m inevitably stuck in traffic due to some accident during rush hour.
My SO and I call each other very frequently. It takes 10s to call and ask me if I’m stuck in traffic or something. Maybe it takes 5 to check an app, but saving a few seconds isn’t worth the unlikely but possible downsides.
Where’s the upside vs alternatives that don’t have those extra issues?
Is it realy so incomprehensible to see how useful it is? I feel like most people in this threat just close their eyes and scream. Yes you can call, yes you can find a different solution to every problem. But it is still fucking convenient to just know where somebody is without you having to ask them having to actively respond.
Yes, I can see how someone could consider it useful, but that always needs to be compared to alternatives and downsides. For example, the government knowing exactly where I am at all times could be useful if I get abducted or something, but there are so many potential downsides and limited upsides to that to the point that I can’t consider it a reasonable option, therefore it’s DOA.
So yeah, I don’t see location sharing as net useful, especially when the alternatives are almost equivalent in convenience and successfully solving the problem. My routine is the same almost every day, and deviations are really easy to communicate w/ a quick text.
Location sharing is a solution in search of a problem.
It sounds like the age-old “nothing to hide” argument.
It’s really not, though. For many couples (including my own relationship), this is something we talked about before implementing. We both decided that since we have the technology, we should use it to our advantage…so we do. Right now we’re using Life360, but I’ve already implemented Traccar (self-hosted and accessed via Home Assistant) for our older kids who have phones (Pinwheel), and I plan on extending that capability to my wife as well, so we can dump Life360.
If everyone consents and you trust the service, I guess that’s fine.
I just personally don’t see the benefit. My area has a really low crime rate, my kids don’t have phones and don’t go anywhere on their own anyway (they hang out w/ neighbors or we drive whem somewhere), and my SO and I just go between work and home and rarely anywhere else. If we have a unique schedule, we let each other know.
The only time I think I’d want it is if I’m doing something potentially risky, like going on a hike on my own, which I almost never do. That’s pretty much it.
When my kids get phones, I plan to follow the same policy. If they go somewhere, they need to let us know where they’re going, who a backup contact is (i.e. if they lose their phone or it dies), and when they’ll be home. I don’t need to know exactly where they are if I trust them to inform me if plans change.
I ride motorcycles. So I just leave it on by default because my wife worries when I go out. Rightly so. Cagers can be absolute fucking morons.
When my kids get phones, I plan to follow the same policy. If they go somewhere, they need to let us know where they’re going, who a backup contact is (i.e. if they lose their phone or it dies), and when they’ll be home. I don’t need to know exactly where they are if I trust them to inform me if plans change.
Our two eldest kids have Pinwheel phones. I was very up-front about what we can see from their devices on the parent portal side, and what they are and are not allowed to do with them. Their mom (my ex) doesn’t like it, but as I’m the one with primary custody and the one who pays for the devices, and the fact that the kids know I’m open about the phones’ capabilities, her opinion doesn’t really matter. I’m not malicious about it, either; she’s just a cunt.
Obviously each situation is different, but I’m very much on the side of trusting kids vs having some kind of leash. Sure, my kids would probably be fine w/ the caveat that I can see whatever they’re doing if that means they get a phone, but to me, it also shows that I don’t trust them, and that could mean they won’t come to me when something I can’t track happens. I personally value that two-way trust a lot more than whatever short-term benefits tracking gives me, and I go out of my way to tell my kids what I could do so they know how much I trust them.
So far it has worked out, but my kids aren’t teenagers yet (close), so we’ll see what happens once their social circle broadens a bit.
They don’t need it so I don’t provide it, that’s my primary reason and that should be enough.
It is enough. In fact, it’s better than the “you should trust your SO” argument which doesn’t make any sense.
Man I took my kids off location sharing when they got their first phones at 12. Shit is creepy.
Just communicate!
Exactly! My kids aren’t getting phones until I trust them, and if I trust them, I don’t need location sharing.
If this was demanded of me, I would end the relationship immediately. That’s absolutely not worth it.
And what if you broke your leg and were lying in a ditch while chipmunks were eating your spleen, eh? How would anyone ever find you huh? Bet the egg is really on your face now!
Well then that’s just too bad for me, isn’t it?
Obviously I have my phone on me so I could just dial 911. If your phone breaks when whatever occurs to you, then your spouse or whatever isn’t going to be able to track your location and you’re not going to be able to call 911 either. So either way you’re fucked.
Don’t be silly, you’ll obviously have your hands full defending your spleen from chipmunks, no time to dial 911
But what if a T-Rex swats your phone away but gets distracted trying to pick it up with his tiny arms, and forgets to eat you, huh? Bet you didn’t consider that likely scenario eh Buster Brown?
i’d get those chipmunks some cheese.
Yep. This is one of those hard lines for me. And I feel like it’s a red flag for anyone who demands it from a partner.
I trust my partner and they trust me. I actively encourage them to do things without me, because I want them to be an independent person. I want them to have friends that I don’t hang out with.
I comment in a different part of this thread how my spouse and just share everything, but I complete get what you are saying.
Then brake up with her! Why you stay with partner that do not trust you? Yea not everything works perfect inba relationship, but people should allow some space.
