I’m watching Apocalypse in the Tropics documentary on Netflix about evangelicals and politics in Brazil and it’s mind boggling. Why do the religious people just blindly do whatever the pastors tell them?
I think it stems from a simple concept. People would rather outsource their own thinking about complex human issues like morality, our place in the universe, meaning in our individual lives, and anything afterlife related to someone we/they perceive as more intelligent than them or has “done the research”. By and large humanity as a species is lazy, and this extends to our trains of thought as well.
Think about how scary and tough life is on your own. Think about everything bad that’s happening, and realizing that no one is in control. This we are all aware of, but we choose to confront that. Christians at least (because it’s who I grew up with so I just have the most experience) find comfort in their church. It gives them the feeling that there is someone in charge, that it’s not all just chaos but there is a plan, and rules, and a defined right and wrong. (Again, ignoring all the things wrong with the church, just from my examples).
Believing allows them to not have to worry about the world. There’s a plan. It’s not chaos. It’s safe. To me it’s very natural why people choose it, it’s honestly scary facing the chaotic real world we have, and I honestly don’t think most people can handle it.
Survival of the fittest has failed humanity many cenuries ago.
Fittiest just means most adaptable to their environment.
Survival of the Fittest isn’t failing, it just doesn’t follow what you’d like to be “fittest”. If a person is more reproductively successful because they’re religious, guess what, that makes them “fittest”. It really doesn’t matter if it’s stupid and illogical, just that it succeeds.
No, because that’s not fit to the environment as in actual living space environment. Humans have largely removed themselves from the natural environment, so we are no longer nearly as subject to survival of the fittest in the way it’s meant to apply to a changing species ala darwinism.
Besides, Idiocracy like behavior only further proves my point, it doesn’t prove the environment is magically different.
No I’m sorrry, “the environment” is just everything around you. Your house is the environment, new york city is nature. These distinctions are made up in our heads but deep down there is no essential difference between your house and a tree, or the city you live in and a forest. We haven’t seperated ourselves from anything, we’ve just changed it. Changing evolutionary pressures doesn’t mean we’ve somehow unmoored ourselves from it, traits are still being selected for and against it really doesn’t matter how anyone, or thing cares about it. It MAY end up getting us all killed, but the process will continue anyways and the “fit” will continue to reproduce more successfully than the “unfit”. It’s not that I don’t agree with you that the things that get selected for aren’t what I’d consider good, or that will make us happiest as a species. It’s merely that natural selection as a process will not “care” about what we care about because it is a process, nothing more.
That is an insanely dumb way to look at what environment is as far as darwinism is concerned. It’s like pretending being on a ship in the middle of the ocean is the same as swimming out there.
Only one of these conditions is meant to apply to the process of evolution and darwinism.
“meant” what do you mean by “meant”? who meant? why did they mean for that? You’re not making sense, you’re ascribing special properties to manmade enviorns and acting like they’re polluted, bad, or different in some essential way. That manmade enviorns are polluted, harmful, or otherwise damaging is just incidental, they don’t HAVE to be that way, you cannot just assume that they’re innately worse than “natural” enviornments, they’re just different. I just want to understand how you think “manmade” is any different from the effort ALL fauna and flora makes to change their enviornment to suit their needs. Is it “natural” the bees build hives? Is it “natural” for beavers to damn creeks? Were trees “meant” to alter the soil chemistry around them to fight off competitors? Did bryophytes defy nature’s will by evolving a waxy cuticle to survive in locations untouched by plants before they evolved? Humans, nor any other animal whatsoever was “intended” to live somewhere or some way. This a fundamental error so many people make when talking about the ecology of our planet, there is psuedo-religious way of looking at things and ascribing of anthropocentric values. None of this has a purpose, none of it has a goal, none of it has an intent, or a desire, or any sort of human-like trait.
No, not toxic traits. Literal, absolute, augmentations to survivability.
I agree that THE WORD “environment” applies to them.
You need to understand that they ARE NOT “the environment” as applied to darwinism/survival of the fittest. They are augmented and artificial, and that removes humans from natural evolution, which is the entire point being made. Humans changing their environment so much as to have wholly separate spaces with wholly separate conditions than nature removes humans from the natural order of events of the planet’s biome. Yes species still change under artificial conditions. The point is humans are more subject to artificial conditions than natural. At least until natural conditions get bad enough.
Survival of the fittest is who is best at sexing not who is best at thinking
Literally, because they’re trained, usually from the age of children, to believe things without evidence. Their beliefs are based ENTIRELY on the conviction of other brainwashed
idiotsreligious people, which can be very convincing as a small child who’s otherwise completely and utterly dependant on the understanding of the adults around them.This is from someone who grew up in a religion and thankfully realized other peoples’ conviction is absolutely NOT a valid basis for understanding truth.
Organized religion is a means to control people. Always has been. How can anybody be surprised to learn after thousands of years they have actually perfected the craft of controlling people?
Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
There is also a selection bias at play here. I suspect that people who are more susceptible to manipulation are more likely to be religious.
Religion also includes a pretty horrific indoctrination program in children, ensuring that most of them remain uneducated and pliable enough to be manipulated for the rest of their lives by the church.
Most people are easy to manipulate, religious or not.
- Why do you think fake news are a thing? People are willing to believe whatever will suit their narrative without actually doing the (real/hard) work of cross-referencing and checking said news (edit: aka, without using their brains). More importantly without ever daring criticize their own beliefs—aka the ‘we’re right/we’re the good guys’ vs the ‘they’re the wrong/the bad guys’ type of discourses that seem to prevail in our (manipulative and manipulated) societies.
- What could explain those almost instantaneous gathering of large crowds based on anger or fear? Most people are willing to use anything as a pretext to let their anger/fear free to express itself and wreck havoc (back to point 1)
People being religious just tells us the type of things they’re more likely willing to believe in/act upon. But the gullibility is the same with or without religion (edit: and that is real major issue in everything that’s going wrong nowadays), to me at least.
It’s because their religion has taught them to trust religious leaders without question. They have faith that the church knows what is best for them and their community. They tend to not use critical thinking when it comes to religious matters.
People often have a similar faith in their parents judgement. If Mom or Dad asks them to do something that seems foolish, many people will still do it simply because of the unquestioning trust they have for their parents.
This does not only happen with religion. Also for example with some politicians, or nowadays ‘influencers’, etc.
It is the phenomenon that people do not like to think for themselves and decide for themselves.
Thinking and deciding and taking responsibility can be difficult. It may appear quite convenient when someone does it for you.
People with a highly metaphysical worldview are easier to deceive and manipulate because their normal logic barriers have already been broken down - ie, if you already believe that the earth and everything on it was created by an omnipotent superbeing in six days, it’s not much of a further leap to believe that demons are making you horny.
aka: you gotta be dumb to be religious in the first place
Religion isn’t the only arena that has charlatans, manipulators and con artists.
No, but it’s certainly a big draw. People looking to the collection plate to buy absolution, buy better health, a better life, whatever…that already believe in magic are far more easily manipulated. Religion has always been attractive to charlatans, grifters, and even warmongers and hatreds. You an far more easily get people to hand you power and money with religion.
Stupid, sexy demons!
People are stupid. They can be made to believe any lie because either they want to believe it’s true or because they are afraid it’s true.
-Terry Goodkind, “Wizard’s First Rule”
Hate to break it to you, it’s not just religious people.
This the book with the extended author self-gratifying torture sex scene in the middle that has almost nothing to do with the story?
The author who went on about people being stupid when the entire plot hinges on the fact the the main character was forced to memorize a book for like, no reason, at the beginning?
The world with a tribe of “uneducated savages” who are saved by white man ingenuity, because, despite living in an area with heavy rainfall, they never thought of making roofs that don’t leak?
The obvious self-insert main character who escapes being forced to breed with said savages by convincing them his jizz is poison?
I misread the original quote as being from Terry Pratchett and as I was reading your comment I was like “No way in hell, what is this guy talking about?”.
Good heavens, no. Terry Pratchett is more than capable of nuance, subtext, and a love for his characters that goes beyond propping up his own fantasy.
Oh, so that means people are smart and never believe lies??
Go away
You sound like someone who thinks Terry Goodkind is poignant.
Because the premise of religion involves having full faith in someone/something without question or evidence. So the more a person believes in it, the easier they are to manipulate, and it tends to have the same effect on other things. So if you are able to tickle that specific part of their brain and make them fully believe in something, you can have them do almost anything you want them to do.
The belief of a higher order being can bring about a sense of peace of mind that someone higher above is watching over you in addition to the belonging that one can find in like-minded crowds/gatherings.
This historical collection of beliefs in combination with any random person calling themselves a priest/bishop/evangelist means that people will follow whomever like sheep because they want that security even if built on fragile scaffolding.
Unfortunately as this system can create a large quantity of easily exploitable people; you’ll see many corrupt governments, corporations, and cults try to replicate this in order to milk people for all their worth even at the expense of literally everything good in the world.
2 Corinthians 5:7
For we live by faith, not by sight.
The whole concept of faith implies believing something without proof. Not a long stretch to see how people might believe in other, non religious, things without evidence.
It’s the modern Scheister equivalent of “Trust me bro!”
Religion has a build in self defense mechanism as that it will prime people to expect people to call them fools for believing foolish things, so it actually serves to strengthen their faith. “See, pastor told me they’d come for my relationship with God!”
All of this relies heavily on getting into people when they are young and their brains are still developing.
People do not understand how deeply religion gets ingrained and how damaging it is.
You’ll have adults that have left the faith, because they’ve seen the bullshit that it is that are still afraid of hell because they’ve been bombarded with this shit since they could talk.
And not just without proof, but to ignore proof if you see it!
Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
And
Proverbs 28:26 26 Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe.
I think what proverbs is saying is less about evidence and moreso about following your heart and being arrogant.
John 20:25-28 ESV
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Greetings! Brazilian here.
First and foremost, Brazil has many religions beyond Christianity: we have Afro-Brazilian traditions such as Candomblé, Umbanda and Quimbanda, as well as numerous Brazilian indigenous traditions, as well as communities practicing Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Bahá’í and Kardecism, as well as smaller communities practicing Wicca, Luciferianism and many New Religious Movements (such as “New Age”).
There are also independent, personal religions, when people (like me) chose to believe in something on their own without any kind of congregation or membership. I’m myself someone who oscillates between religiosity and non-religiosity, between Apatheism (which is not Atheism, despite how both terms look similar) and a deeply-specific mix (syncretism) between Luciferianism, Lilitheism, Gnosticism, Crowley’s Thelema and Hermeticism (to mention some of the religious frameworks from which my beliefs stemmed).
The whole Brazilian state was founded on the grounds of Christianity, so Christianity is deeply ingrained in the way our politics do politics.
However, despite Christianity being a tool of indoctrination since the colonization (indigenous people were compelled into Christianity), it’s not what leads to indoctrination (and I say this as someone who has a “diametrically opposed belief” to theirs because, after all, I worship their “Persona Non Grata” Lucifer alongside Lilith). Rather, it’s social compliance (as per Derren Brown’s concepts and social experiments).
People are socially compelled by their family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, employers and others into going to a church and believing in whatever their “leader” (a Bishop, a “Pastor” or a “Father”) says. Many Christians “read” the Bible through this “leader”, because they fear that reading on their own would lead to defiance and excommunication (which would mean social ostracism for them). That’s why they blindly follow, and that’s why they’re easily manipulated, and that’s why politics gets to use their power within the churches to gain more power.
But this isn’t something restricted to a specific political spectrum: all political spectra have their grips on Christianity, because, as I said, the entire country is built upon Christianity, so both the right-wing, the left-wing and the center-wing try to take advantage from it, because it holds the majority of Brazilian voters. If the majority of Brazilian voters were, for example, Kardecists, you could bet that politicians would try to twist The Spirits Book to their own whims. Similarly, if the majority of Brazilian voters were from Umbanda or Candomblé, politicians would allege that they’re being guided by Orixás and this is why people should vote to them. So it’s not the religion to blame (although Christianity itself is to blame by many things), it’s simply whatever politicians can use to perpetuate their power and/or trying to be powerful.
Complex topic, but this is a starting point: https://www.conspirituality.net/cult-dynamics-101
Oftentimes, people who think that they are not vulnerable are the most vulnerable ones.
