They call it “dark traffic” - ads that are not seen by tech-savvy users who have excellent ad blockers.
Not surprised that its growing. The web is unusable without an ad blocker and its only getting worse, and will continue to get worse every month.
People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.
Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.
You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.
– Banksy
Cool quote, where did you get it from?
From Banksy’s 2004 book Cut It Out. Banksy, in turn, ‘got’ it (in its original form) from Sean Tejaratchi’s 1999 essay in his Crap Hound zine. 😅
From banksy’s limited run “Cut it out” book apparently. Yours for only £310
I don’t mind the old system of one or two ads on a page or a 10-second ad at the start of a YouTube video if they don’t track their users. But these days it is growing out of proportions, we are almost at American television with the amount of ad breaks in a YouTube video, and it’s absurd.
There are also market effects on what type of content is produced / profitable to advertise on.
And mostly unknown psychological effects of advertising on the human mind. Maybe advertising has altered your mind so much that you “don’t even mind” it any more. It is a brainwashing technique after all haha. Maybe all those youtube ads made about 5% of the people’s brain soft enough to vote for MAGA. Maybe the effect of advertising is as bad as lead in gasoline.
There is nothing like a free lunch.
You either have to directly pay for something or indirectly pay for it by selling your time or data.
Companies need to get their name out there and in the past you did that with a banner on your building, a space in the phone book and maybe your name on the side of the vans. Now we live in the digital world and we use digital advertisement. Heck a lot of companies sponsor certain event including charity events.
If we would totally remove advertisement, your local mom-and-pop shops will get more traffic, but in a lot of countries they would have basically a monopoly unless another competitor exists in the same region.
I don’t really mind watching a bit of advertisement on something like a YouTube video or a banner ad on a site. Heck, buildings or vans with logos etc are fine as well in my opinion. My issue is more with the tracking and some forced advertisement (putting your logo on my clothing, vehicle etc).
Ok, it’s obviously a complicated task, and banning advertising will make things more complex. But that is what progress often is.
But before the internet we used to even have TV shows reviewing things, under the mandate they don’t get paid to do so. People do have an interest in learning about new cool things or improvements to old, and comparative reviews. There is no reason this wouldn’t serve the legitimate need for information better. Now we have ratings and that could be improved as well, through better technology to gather independent reviews.
And yeah, there are not free lunches from corporations, but there are from people or from the government. We pay collectively for things and distribute them for free all the time. Public broadcasting could be extended to youtube or even news papers, to make them more independent from profit driven behavior or owners. You can’t have democracy without free press, and currently we don’t have that. We have corporate press and every single youtube channel has to serve corporate news. And as you point out, in capitalism there is no free lunch. But we can make it free so we can stop the insanity of neoliberal and fascist propaganda currently destroying our civilization globally.
Another thing I forgot to mention, advertising is the main vector to increase consumerism. Which is killing our planet.
Independent reviews are a good thing yes and they shouldn’t be sponsored by a related company to keep their integrity, that doesn’t mean they can’t get paid from a different form of advertising. Heck you can even check on the integrity of professionals differently. In the accountancy, we are paid by the clients who we need to audit or need to advice etc. Using things like third party audits and a high accountability for professionals.
Ratings aren’t that great especially on platforms like Amazon/AliExpress and other crap offering dropshipping platforms from corrupt countries.
Corporations generally don’t do anything for free, but a lot of companies do, but that is generally to get their name out there or because the owner wants to decuct his private life from his company profit … Even governments can’t spend money or personal all they want, in the end it is money from the people. People here in NL are pissed that the government spend money on things like getting the NATO here for the last meeting or for the royal family. The public broadcasting is also something that is under heat and not just here.
In most countries you have some kind of government funded press heck I think most press aren’t even corporations, but more companies except some of the larger once maybe.
Almost nobody is going to work for free for the majority of their life. It would be better if all of us did more work for society, but most people aren’t in the position I am in that they just can take an extra week off to do that.
I agree consumerism is killing our planet, but there is a huge difference between the crap a companies like Google are doing and your local plummer who has advertisement on the local radio on their van and make a slightly SEO optimised website. Advertising is often the only way to get your company visable if you are competing with a well established company. Same reason as that there is nuance between companies and corporations.
Yes we need to promote repairing, reusing, recycling and the circular economy I agree, but somebody like iFixit wouldn’t really thrive without their advertisement. We also need more financial transparency by the company we buy from and just skip on companies from China, the US and other obvious corrupt countries.
Yeah public broadcasting is under attack because of advertising. Advertising fuels private broadcasting and it’s in their owner’s interest to push anti public broadcasting propaganda.
Any system humans design to serve us as a society will over time become “min maxed” by people or institutions seeking to maximize their profit or gain more power or maintain power in the face of changes. Advertising is a primary vector how those with the most economic power can influence society without people even realizing it. And everything is political.
For example take the ratings and something like yellow pages and announcements for new businesses like a plumber - needing to invest additional capital in advertising has an effect too. It makes it so new businesses are more indentures, more like wage slavery, than if no advertising existed at all. Obviously no advertising at all would favor seniority. But we have advanced in technology since we designed our government systems - there should be an independent “forth estate” or fifth or something for economics and regulation. They could be independently voted on to the executive or legislative. And their job would be to deal with regulation in the public’s interest, and sponsor things like an independent ratings portal that is moderated, and force shops like amazon to use the independent ratings for the products and the vendors. It will stay a struggle to stay ahead of people trying to abuse the system for gain, but right now we pretend the tools we have right now are somehow god given. We Europeans are far more conservative than we like to think.
If we want to have any resiliency against what is coming (because we destroyed our planet and let wealth inequality spiral and social media is nearly completely controlled by plutocrats) we need to push for better tools to govern democratically. And advertising is a major obstacle because it allows unmitigated influence of those who own the world.
TLDR: We don’t *have to * screw over new plumbers, but we should do it if we had to because stopping the brainwashing is more important.
Well I agree we need a better structure to keep people in check I agree with that. Things like social media and a companies like RTL having a massive stake in private television will help to destroy the planet and keep the difference between the lower class, the middle class and the rich.
But I disagree that we should just get rid of all advertisement completely. Again there is nothing wrong with banner ads, websites, vans with logo’s and other low stakes form of advertisement.
If governments would start to pay YouTubers instead of YouTubers earning money from adverts and sponsors it would not only allow the government to control the narrative, but people will still abuse the system. Same way as that social security or subsidies are abused currently.
Consdering I work in an accounting firm I do see the amount of cost some companies have with advertisment, but most of them with a lot of costs do it to get more customers. Some of them need to do it to keep their profit rising or the same.
There is an issue with misleading adverts including misleading prices (excluding tax), there is an issue with hidden ads (like logo’s). But personally I think social media (including Lemmy) is just the bane of our existence. Yes a lot of that is funded by adverts, but also by selling your data and the like. Personally I believe that they are brainwashing people more with that, than with a lot of the advertisement. Ow and the people who keep on defending companies like they are their family are also a big part, people saying they are going to get Domino’s instead of pizza f.e.
We had advertising supported media for 100-ish years before surveillance capitalism, obtrusive pop-ups/overs, and ad-network distributed malware were a thing. No one cared about blocking ads on the Internet until those 3 things started either. Even today, if you put your mattress ad as a static <div> on some mattress review website, adblockers won’t block it. It’s just that no one does that.
It’s far far worse than American TV. TV commercials are a scattershot hope that you show the ad to 2 million people and 10,000 see it and buy your product.
With Google fingerprint tracking, advertisers are selling hyper-targeted ads so a company buys only ads to show to the right 10,000 people over and over. It’s a literal dream for advertisers. But it’s a fucking dystopian nightmare for us.
What’s become really disturbing in the past ten or so years is how they’ve applied ML to the targeting. Used to be it was just basic keywords and demographic stuff. Now the big platforms put your entire last decades’ worth of history (often both web browsing and social media) through a bunch of filters and spot that people who are like you are more likely to buy this product or join this website.
The reason why it’s fucked up is that “people who are like you” could mean things like anorexia, or addiction problems, or the kind of relationship trouble that makes you a soft target for incel indoctrination, or a bunch of other protected vulnerabilities that would get a company sued through the floor if they actually did it up front. But because it’s all just a bunch of untagged probability distributions in a black box, it’s impossible to “prove” that you deliberately and knowingly targeted a gambling addict to push a high interest credit card, or a recovering alcoholic with booze, even though that’s exactly what happened inside the bundle of weights.
With Google fingerprint tracking, advertisers are selling hyper-targeted ads so a company buys only ads to show to the right 10,000 people over and over. It’s a literal dream for advertisers. But it’s a fucking dystopian nightmare for us.
The hilarious thing is if you turn off your adblocker (or use a service/device that doesn’t support it) and pay attention to what is being advertised to you, a lot of it is wildly irrelevant. They’d probably have better targeting by following the old TV Ad model than whatever the heck is happening with targeted web ads nowadays. My wife watches a lot of livestreams on twitch and any ads that aren’t for a game just consistently seem to be wildly irrelevant despite being “targeted” or it’s even worse when she’s listening to Spotify and the ads are so consistently for products or services we would never have a desire to use
SmartTube is so much better. Even the UI is intuitive and makes sense. You can hide shorts, actually find content you want to watch.
Sadly I don’t believe I can use SmartTube. I was really limited in options for my TV box due to regional reasons and Googling blocking way more surrounding casting than Apple with airplay
What device? FireTV/Firestick/etc all support it (surprisingly).
Before I used Firefox on Android, any search about a game I’m playing would result in a half page video ad in the top half of the screen, accompanied by the bottom half being a request to share your data with 1496 trusted data partners.
Now I use Firefox with add ons, and I get the results I requested. The modern web is basically unusable in it’s raw form.
I confess that I don’t have the money to frequently donate and fund the services that I use (if they allow to donate) and recognize long time ago ads would be an okay alternative. but like everyone said, ads just became a lot more cancerous and have to block it. despite the shortcomings of the FBI, even they advise to use adblockers.
though I guess I just have to suck it up and donate once in a while as well.
Ads on websites are deals the sitemaker made with themselves. The internet is free.
[rant] The Internet is not FREE. Its just free at the point of use!
Just like ad funded websites aren’t free to use, they are also just free at the point of use!
People seem to forget where the all this ‘ad money’ comes from. It’s not growing on magic money trees, it’s coming from every product you buy and it’ll be interesting to see how much products have gone up against the sheer amount of ads that are shovelled everywhere now.
The reason the internet used to be great was because people shared information with no expectation of monetary gain. Just the love of what they knew and the joy of sharing information.
So the sooner everyone realises you’re all paying for the ads on every product/service to be shown already, and blocking them actually saves you money because the more ads that are shown, the more websites get paid, the more ad/tracking companies charge companies and yes, the more expensive you’re product and services get! [/rant]
I don’t mean free from operating costs. I mean free for the person using it to experience it how they choose.
I run uBlock Origin for the browsers, and Pi-Hole for the network. Plus a wireguard VPN server that my phone connects to when I’m not on the home wifi for ad-blocking on the go.
I switched to adguard home recently, much nicer user interface and I dont miss any features from pihole. :)
Using an ad blocker makes me tech savvy? Oh, la, la. Hand me my monocle and glass of schardonayegh.
I mean, basically yes? Do you think most people ever touched the addons button?
Well, no, but is that really the bar? It is a pretty low bar no matter how you dress it up. Now leave me alone with my schaedeghenayegh.
You think most people open settings or hamburger menus? You’re more optimistic than I am.
These days the average caveman is used by his phone, not the other way around.
And just like that, 200 redneck women said in unison “huh, that’s a real pretty name. Schardonayegh. Ooooh, even better -Schardonayegh Lynn. I love it!”
Sorry that’s spelled jardoughneigh you uncultured swine. Give back that monocle at once!
I feel like one thing doesn’t get talked about enough is that websites feel the need to implement ad services that want to track the user in order to serve ads. Which I just find weird, the expectation to give up pnes piracy, just to get served an ad.
Instead, the ads should just be relevant to the content of the page where an ad is embedded, which would automatically make it relevant to the reader, without tracking them.
I’m sorry for being a broken record in this thread but holy crap yes! Right now you can embed a static ad in a web page relevant to the page’s content and adblockers will not block it!
Ad companies are getting butt-hurt because the pages you are referencing are being seen even less, due to AI scraping by search engines. So now they are going after:
- The consumer using an ad blocker. Last amount of protections/rights, easiest target to vilify.
- The search engines, for stealing content views where ads would be placed
- The publishers for allowing users that use ad blockers.
Maybe the problem is the advertisers and not the consumers. Jeeeesus.
Advertising should be illegal. Huge waste of money and everyone’s time.
Like “back in the day” on TV: turning the volume of the ads up to be louder than the program you are watching; bells, horns, alarms; extremely misleading ads (people doing things absolutely stupidly, but suddenly better with product)… Loud and abusive scams is too much of it!
Unfortunately I don’t think you can just make it illegal. People/companies would still do it, just covertly. Then you end up in a situation where adverts are not marked as such and that’s probably even worse than the current situation, where ads at least identify themselves as ads.
It’s an interesting stance, but ask yourself, where is the line between advertising and promotion or sponsorship.
I think that requiring that advertising is factual might be a better way to address the issue.
Ultimately as a society we haven’t come up with a better way to communicate the existence of products and services to each other, and we’ve been using advertising for 5,000 years or so.
Marketing is society’s cancer.
When a company has a good product/idea, they grow organically. If I’m looking for something, it should be enough to have information available through manufacturers websites and customer opinions, there is ZERO need to shove ads down people’s throats, which usuall translates in overconsumption and buying the best marketed (not the optimal) product.
So yeah, fuck marketing in general, big corporations greed and their entitlement to control the web traffic.
Here’s how you make people aware of your products.
You sell a quality product for a reasonable price.
That’s it.
Instead, capitolism has become this game of cat and mouse where the consumers ALWAYS lose. Just a game of shrinking product sizes, reducing quality, and raising prices. Little by little.
It’s most obvious when you haven’t had a product in a while, maybe years, and you grab it again. Only to realize they’ve gone through several iterations of enshitification.
When I was a kid, Andy Capps Cheese Fries used to be about as long as my pinky, and they were thick. Now it’s like the length of my pinky until my second knockle, and it’s like the same thickness as a pretzle stick. Sure, it’s technically the same product, but everytime I buy them I realize why I was disappointed the last time I bought them. And I won’t buy them for another 5 years. Maybe by then they’ll be the length of my pinky nail and as thick as a sewing pin, but cost 8 dollars instead of the 25 cents it was when I was a kid.
They did a durability test on hammers. In one side was an old rusty hammer. It had a date of 1931 on it. In the other was a brand new hammer bought that same day from Home Depot.
The new hammer crumbled long before the 1931 hammer did. This test was done in 2017.
But I never buy products because they advertise. I buy them because I remember how good it was the last time.
Except now, you’re advertising BAD memories. Because when I go in expecting this much, with this quality, and instead I get a fraction of it, with only a fraction of the quality…congradulations. You saved money on production costs. You also pushed your customer away from being a repeat customer.
All this business schools, and all the data they have I’m sure shows that their way is better. So explain to me why it seems businesses these days struggle to make the line go up, but when I was a kid business was booming?
A lot of this comes from pressures exerted by shareholders. Get rid of the shareholders and you get rid of the pressures. Then you have people who chose to do the opposite noxious thing and people who chose not to. The market would then reward the less obnoxious people and the negative aspects would die out.
But we have shareholders so capitalism cannot possibly work the way we are promised it will.
The thing is business is more booming than it’s ever been, but making the line go up forever is a fool’s errand, at some point you’ll hit a peak. Hitting that peak is immensely punished in our economic system.
If you make a hammer that’ll last 100 years, you’ll sell as many as you can reach customers who need one, before hammer sales plummet. Instead of being rewarded for making a great product, you’ll be punished when sales fall because you’ve solved a problem for most people.
Advertising is kind of neutral in abstract in my head. Make a great product for a fair price, and let people know about it, and that’s actually probably a benefit to both parties. Make a terrible product, and tell a bunch of people it’s great, and you’ve spent resources doing them a disservice. But if you can convince them it’s good enough to spend money on it, and keep your revenue per customer above the cost to acquire them, it’s profitable. And that’s all they care about. It’s basically the same pattern as a scam, but profit is the only thing they’re told they’re allowed to care about.
Yeah no, I have seen multiple businesses closing down due to poor marketing promotion/budget.
And then we all complain that we didn’t know about a certain product/service because they didn’t market it good enough (we have seen it a lot of times with movies for example, then they turn into obscure classics with the pass of time, but not really profitable), also some games that didn’t really made themselves known while in critical selling weeks?
Who is gonna be the brave soul to release a game when GTA VI appears? That would be marketing suicide, no matter how good your game is.
I have seen multiple businesses closing down due to poor marketing promotion/budget.
Only because they were competing against businesses with possibly shittier products but certainly better marketing. Remove all the marketing, good and bad, and suddenly it’s a real merit-based competition.
It is very idealist, but IMO worth considering. There can (or at least should) be less intrusive means of letting people know of a product.
Only a billion. Need to quintuple that.
The trade body called it “illegal circumvention technology”
Lol. Fuck off.
Say here’s a thought: can we sue ad companies for theft of electricity? They’re using my electricity to display their ads, without my consent.
Not to mention my internet fees.
Yeah. As if hacking into someone’s mind is their right. Talk about entitlement…
Once the data enters my network it’s my fucking data and I can do with it what I please.
Likewise, I can prevent anything from even entering my network that I don’t want on it.
Unless it’s intellectual property that belongs to the movie industry. Then you better not touch it. Or that’s illegal.
But if it’s advertisements, then you have to watch it, or that’s illegal.
That’s more to the point!
What should be considered illegal circumvention is allowing articles behind a paywall to be included in search results.
And this is exactly why Google did away with Manifest v2 (what uBlock runs on) and why they wanted to introduce their “web integrity” standard. At that point the pages would be signed with ads and in the signature didn’t match the page wouldn’t even be shown.
They tried to play it off as “ensuring that you truly get the correct copy of the page and no bad hackers have intercepted it” but really it would have 100% forced ads.
Then I guess I’m not looking at those pages. No skin of my nose. That said, Firefox with Ublock Origin plus a couple of ad-blockers seems to be working pretty well for me. Anything with a paywall, I just move on.
Then I guess I’m not looking at those pages. No skin of my nose.
That works until every website starts doing it.
I use Mullvad’s VPN and DNS on a router level. Every device on my network is blanketed by it. Some services don’t work, but I am willing to sacrifice their profits for my integrity. Thus, to them I say 然らば fuckmothers.
:shrug: So be it.
Exactly. I’ll go back to browsing the web with Lynx before I accept ads. If it breaks, it breaks…
Gladly go back to every site having an animated ‘under construction’ gif.
To think that Google once had ads that I considered OK, just a bunch of text and links. How times have changed…
Advertisers will always keep pushing things trying to find the limit where people will just barely tolerate it. Then when they push it too far they cry “no fair!” When people stop putting up with it.
Fuckers want to colonize my property (my computer). that’s what’s illegal!
I actually agree with that but the only other solution is subject yourself to deeply concerning levels of surveillance, not to mention surveillance pricing.
I use AdNauseum and they have a toggle for privacy-conscious ads and I leave that on. That’s my best compromise.
Toggles like that are available in other adblockers too and they pose a problem. They ad a random to showing you ads. You don’t want the ads but if the advertisers pay the adblocker company they get whitelisted and you see the ads anyway.
Never use those toggles.
They ad a random to showing you ads
hhwat
sorry, fixed.
Do you have some evidence of this?
Okay, I’m assuming that you are asking for evidence of the paying of adblockers to allow some ads through, and not for evidence that he fixed the typo he thought you were actually posting about?
Do a quick search for why we all now use ublock origin rather than ublock plus, and then for why we were using ublock plus rather than ublock, and then for why we were using ublock instead of adblock. There might be some adblock plus in the middle of that somewhere as well.
All ad networks, even the less intrusive ones, can be abused to distribute malware. In this day and age not having an ad blocker is like rawdogging internet strangers.
You could say the same thing about the webpage itself.
The O.G. add blocker.
The concept is close to the same, how could something like this be seen as “illegal circumvention technology”?
It just shows us how disconnected the people in these positions can be that are regulating these things.
They wont be happy until eye tracking technology makes sure we sit and watch their fucking ads before the actual content appears.
I mean, none of this is getting better. Its only going to become worse. I have ads in the fucking pause screen on my streaming tv app. So if I want to take a toilet break, I get an ad in my face. Its just so ridiculous.
What most of these people don’t get is if they didn’t get so invasive with those ads, people would not have to resort to ad blockers. Be it tho shut up the ads every few seconds on YouTube or having to play whack-a-mole every time I read an article, eventually you run out of patience and say “enough!”
Lol they will even say blocking phishing links are unethical
That was for 12ft.io Bypassing a pay wall. Not blocking ads.
Obligatory xkcd 624:
Step 4 - success - Attention aquired. 😅
GitHer
I can clone her…
What’s frustrating to me is the idea that law makers and advertisers believe I don’t have a right to alter data that comes onto things I own. And nobody chime in with the brain dead “☝️🤓 actually you don’t own it.” Because even if you wanna waste time with that stupid distraction, I own my computer. I built it from parts.
Controlling my perception is my right. If I wanna use things that block ads that’s my right. PERIOD. I NEED TO BLOCK ADS BECAUSE OF MY DISABILITY.
Proud to be part of a growing tradition.
Damn people, enshitifying the internet for the advertisers.
I switched to GrapheneOS which uses Vanadium browser by default, which doesn’t support any content blocking yet. I use ProtonVPN which seems to block everything.
The issue with extensions (including adblockers) is you are trusting someone with access to your shit and money buys bad behavior. So I dislike the lack of blocking there but I can understand why that decision was made.
