lemmy.mlaga97.space
  • Communities
  • Create Post
  • Create Community
  • heart
    Support Lemmy
  • search
    Search
  • Login
  • Sign Up
helena@lemmy.eco.br to Political Humor@lemmy.ml · 1 year ago

Very nuanced issue

lemmy.eco.br

message-square
250
fedilink
0

Very nuanced issue

lemmy.eco.br

helena@lemmy.eco.br to Political Humor@lemmy.ml · 1 year ago
message-square
250
fedilink
  • Highalectical@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    1 year ago

    Raised impoverished feudal nations into places with the highest standards of living to exist on Earth and is currently outcompeting the global hegemon. So yeah, it’s worked excellently.

    • TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Just so I can properly understand what you’re talking about, are we talking about China? Russia? The USSR?

      China is maybe the only one that fits some of that description, particularly with the belt and road initiative. Which isn’t even particularly good, it’s designed to trap developing nations into a perpetual debt cycle. Unless you can provide specific examples?

      Outcompeting on what fronts? China does have a remarkable EV market and enormous manufacturing capabilities, but both of those are predicated on extremely low paid workers and resources taken from developing nations.

      Not that the same thing doesn’t happen in the US, mind you. Think it’s more of economic thing than any particular political ideology on the scale of world governments

      • Highalectical@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        Keeping my answer limited to quality of life under socialism, I’m stealing an info dump from comrade @yogthos@lemmy.ml

        shit ton of text

        That’s fascinating given that communism has worked literally every time it’s been tried. The quality of life, food security, education, employment in communist countries all improved drastically after revolutions. Let’s take a look at USSR as an example.

        Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:

        • https://wid.world/document/soviets-oligarchs-inequality-property-russia-1905-2016/
        • https://wid.world/document/appendix-soviets-oligarchs-inequality-property-russia-1905-2016-wid-world-working-paper-201710/

        USSR provided free education to all citizens resulting in literacy rising from 33% to 99.9%:

        • http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/PubEdUSSR.htm
        • http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/anglosov.htm
        • http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0000/000013/001300eo.pdf
        • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likbez

        USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:

        • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union

        Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:

        • https://www.scribd.com/document/430076844/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5-pdf

        USSR moved from 58.5-hour work weeks to 41.6 hour work weeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960:

        • https://books.google.com/books?id=x8JYjwEACAAJ
        • https://b-ok.cc/book/2669908/77497f

        USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996:

        • https://www.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1994/94B09_66_englp2.pdf
        • https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

        In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:

        • https://www.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1994/94B09_66_englp2.pdf
        • https://www.cbsnews.com/news/could-you-get-by-on-the-average-americans-retirement-income/

        GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:

        • https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif

        The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:

        • http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0735675784900482 (sci-hub for access)

        • USSR defeated a smallpox epidemic in a matter of 19 days https://www.rbth.com/history/331857-how-ussr-defeated-black-smallpox

        • The Social Consequences of Soviet Immunization Policies https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1997-812-03g-Hoch.pdf

        Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:

        • https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.507.8966&rep=rep1&type=pdf

        Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:

        • https://www.jstor.org/stable/2672986?seq=1

        A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:

        • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf

        This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.

        • https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2430906/

        Finally, let’s take a look at how people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism?

        • A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country’s economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country’s switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary’s integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.

        • The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

        • Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an “illegitimate state.” In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.

        • A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -“during the time of socialism”. The survey focused on the respondents’ views on the transition “from socialism to capitalism”, and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito. The standard of living during Tito’s rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as “more or less the same”. 45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent choosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.

        • 75% of Russians have expressed increasingly positive opinions about the Soviet Union over the years. Only a small portion of those surveyed said they had negative associations with the Soviet Union. The economic deficit, long lines and coupons were named by 4% of respondents each, while the Iron Curtain, economic stagnation and political repressions were named by 1% each, the Levada Center said.

        The Free market paradise goes East chapters in Blackshirts and Reds details some more results of the transition to capitalism.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          glad to see it’s coming in handy :)

        • TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          Thanks, I’ve read some of yogthos’s stuff. Give me a little bit to get home and comfortable and I’ll read through this one so I can give a thought out response

      • brain_in_a_box@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Removed by mod

Political Humor@lemmy.ml

politicalhumor@lemmy.ml

Subscribe from Remote Instance

You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politicalhumor@lemmy.ml
lock
Community locked: only moderators can create posts. You can still comment on posts.

Post politically charged comedy here, but be respectful!

Rules

  • Keep this a humor community
  • No NSFW content
  • No bigotry, hate speech, advocacy or incitement of violence or crime, etc
  • No harassment
  • Extreme or offensive content are subject to removal at the mods’ discretion
Visibility: Public
globe

This community can be federated to other instances and be posted/commented in by their users.

  • 20 users / day
  • 20 users / week
  • 20 users / month
  • 20 users / 6 months
  • 0 local subscribers
  • 3.56K subscribers
  • 167 Posts
  • 807 Comments
  • Modlog
  • mods:
  • AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
  • BE: 0.19.5
  • Modlog
  • Instances
  • Docs
  • Code
  • join-lemmy.org