even if it is, if they have locked bootloaders, it really defeats the purpose. devices we buy are ours, not the manufacturer’s
i havent been able to find info on whether or not they are locked in 2024 from a quick search, but last i heard they were pretty adamant about locking them down tight which is not something i can cheer on.
I don’t really follow your logic, since the open source OS itself is not tied to the bootloader. This is code that could be run on phones with open bootloaders. Everybody benefits from Huwawei developing an open source operating system as far as I can tell. So, not sure what you can’t get behind here.
this is more or less what the larger open source philosophy advocates for. let me try to explain: its a combination of open software and open hardware.
part of the point of open source is running our own software in our own hardware. that makes us independent of what a given company might want in relation to how long it will last, how long it will be updated for security, what parts of it they want you to use vs what you want to take away to get a little more out of the hardware, how much they will spy on you and by extension how you can use modern tech to dissent, how you can repair or augment it, and even what OS you want to use.
most of the cool new tricks electronics can do are mostly due to software, and old dogs can learn new tricks if they are unlocked. locking it limits what you can do with a given phone and what groups of specialized end users can do to improve it for the benefit of the community at large.
a few examples: how my xiaomi doesn’t get official security updates after a couple of years anymore, but any xiaomi owner can unlock it and run a custom, secure and updated version of it made and supported by the community. or how i have a couple of 10ish yr old laptops that are fast and i can still use as normal because i’m free to get linux in it thanks to a community of companies, individuals and volunteers, despite their manufacturers not even acknowledging their existence anymore. or how we can ‘fix’ cheaper samsungs by replacing their shitty software with something more usable in slower hardware. this is a sliver of what is made possible by hardware freedom.
sometimes i feel non technical people are mostly taught about tech in this mystifying kind of way and kind of fear it, like its all magic the wizards at some google concocted to us and no one else is as great as their magic, but its just technology that can be instinctively sort of understood if they are designed in a way that doesn’t put it all behind curtains.
with that said: you can’t really use the awesome hardware huawei is putting out lately for anything other than the narrow scope they define, which is a big waste almost as stupid as apple putting an expensive computer-level cpu in iphones and not bothering to make computer-level stuff for it, and locking it down so tight the community can’t figure out how to do it themselves.
I get why people want open source running on open hardware. However, my point is that the code for HarmonyOS is perfectly usable for that. So, again, I fail to see what the problem with supporting the development of an open source mobile operating system that could be used on open hardware, once it exists, in the future. The thing you’re describing doesn’t really exist right now, aside from some very niche Linux phone projects that can’t be used as daily drivers by most people.
Sometimes I feel like people who get too much into open source ideology start missing the forest for the trees.
nah. completely open hardware is still a pipe dream, i’m not disputing this. i guess i’m demoting the meaning of “open” in a way here. i’ll repeat myself here to make it clear:
this is a sliver of what is made possible by hardware freedom.
i gave a couple of real world examples of the thing i’m describing too, and some use cases we directly benefit from, so it exists because i’m literally holding it in my hand right now. open source software on open enough hardware is already a thing and i see no reason i should cheer for a backslide from this while i can get an us-branded device unlocked.
open hardware schematics used to be ubiquitous with no real disadvantage, now we rely on leaks so we don’t just chuck a perfectly good expensive item in the trash, and while huawei follows this western trend of throwaway hardware at the expense of mounting garbage piles and difficult financial situations to replace them, theres not a single reason any of us should be happy with it. and then theres the other wasteful practice of spending an inhuman amount of resources putting a cutting-edge really powerful chip on a device that can’t be used as such because the manufacturer doesn’t want you to. again, Apple-level antics here.
the worst part about it is that huawei did all of this better than most of the planet before and decided to stop it!!! fucking hell, other chinese manufacturers still do it right!! why make it worse??
I agree with that, there’s a lot more to be done to get to truly open stacks, and it is unfortunate Huawei decided to make their stuff less open. I’m just pointing out that there is still value in open stuff they do publish.
My understanding is that it’s mostly open.
even if it is, if they have locked bootloaders, it really defeats the purpose. devices we buy are ours, not the manufacturer’s
i havent been able to find info on whether or not they are locked in 2024 from a quick search, but last i heard they were pretty adamant about locking them down tight which is not something i can cheer on.
I don’t really follow your logic, since the open source OS itself is not tied to the bootloader. This is code that could be run on phones with open bootloaders. Everybody benefits from Huwawei developing an open source operating system as far as I can tell. So, not sure what you can’t get behind here.
this is more or less what the larger open source philosophy advocates for. let me try to explain: its a combination of open software and open hardware.
part of the point of open source is running our own software in our own hardware. that makes us independent of what a given company might want in relation to how long it will last, how long it will be updated for security, what parts of it they want you to use vs what you want to take away to get a little more out of the hardware, how much they will spy on you and by extension how you can use modern tech to dissent, how you can repair or augment it, and even what OS you want to use.
most of the cool new tricks electronics can do are mostly due to software, and old dogs can learn new tricks if they are unlocked. locking it limits what you can do with a given phone and what groups of specialized end users can do to improve it for the benefit of the community at large.
a few examples: how my xiaomi doesn’t get official security updates after a couple of years anymore, but any xiaomi owner can unlock it and run a custom, secure and updated version of it made and supported by the community. or how i have a couple of 10ish yr old laptops that are fast and i can still use as normal because i’m free to get linux in it thanks to a community of companies, individuals and volunteers, despite their manufacturers not even acknowledging their existence anymore. or how we can ‘fix’ cheaper samsungs by replacing their shitty software with something more usable in slower hardware. this is a sliver of what is made possible by hardware freedom.
sometimes i feel non technical people are mostly taught about tech in this mystifying kind of way and kind of fear it, like its all magic the wizards at some google concocted to us and no one else is as great as their magic, but its just technology that can be instinctively sort of understood if they are designed in a way that doesn’t put it all behind curtains.
with that said: you can’t really use the awesome hardware huawei is putting out lately for anything other than the narrow scope they define, which is a big waste almost as stupid as apple putting an expensive computer-level cpu in iphones and not bothering to make computer-level stuff for it, and locking it down so tight the community can’t figure out how to do it themselves.
I get why people want open source running on open hardware. However, my point is that the code for HarmonyOS is perfectly usable for that. So, again, I fail to see what the problem with supporting the development of an open source mobile operating system that could be used on open hardware, once it exists, in the future. The thing you’re describing doesn’t really exist right now, aside from some very niche Linux phone projects that can’t be used as daily drivers by most people.
Sometimes I feel like people who get too much into open source ideology start missing the forest for the trees.
nah. completely open hardware is still a pipe dream, i’m not disputing this. i guess i’m demoting the meaning of “open” in a way here. i’ll repeat myself here to make it clear:
i gave a couple of real world examples of the thing i’m describing too, and some use cases we directly benefit from, so it exists because i’m literally holding it in my hand right now. open source software on open enough hardware is already a thing and i see no reason i should cheer for a backslide from this while i can get an us-branded device unlocked.
open hardware schematics used to be ubiquitous with no real disadvantage, now we rely on leaks so we don’t just chuck a perfectly good expensive item in the trash, and while huawei follows this western trend of throwaway hardware at the expense of mounting garbage piles and difficult financial situations to replace them, theres not a single reason any of us should be happy with it. and then theres the other wasteful practice of spending an inhuman amount of resources putting a cutting-edge really powerful chip on a device that can’t be used as such because the manufacturer doesn’t want you to. again, Apple-level antics here.
the worst part about it is that huawei did all of this better than most of the planet before and decided to stop it!!! fucking hell, other chinese manufacturers still do it right!! why make it worse??
I agree with that, there’s a lot more to be done to get to truly open stacks, and it is unfortunate Huawei decided to make their stuff less open. I’m just pointing out that there is still value in open stuff they do publish.
there is! there is always value in open source code made by professionals, always something we can learn or use. but its half the equation.
I agree, fully open hardware and software stack is a laudable goal that we should continue to strive for.