ok gnome sucks a lot gnome doesn‘t prodoce errors - it is an error, a very ugly error. i‘m not a fanboy, i use sytems thts works -bsd,macos,debian,alpin but i hate gnome. I destroy every computer with a Gnome interface that I get my hands on in no time. But that’s what I like about Gnome - destroy everything and go away.
What?
Hate bate the home wesktop
@boredsquirrel I personally use neither of those, but I’ve had to fix issues on computers running both.
I can tell that the apple GUI is clumsy, but sadly inevitable when you want to do stuff. I would always lose time trying to tile or move windows without success.
At least in #Gnome, it’s #linux so you can fix everything without being forced into using a badly designed GUI and a lot of things work well. Though you’d better not be looking for some customization on Gnome, but if you bought an apple device you’ve already kissed customization (and fair prices) goodbye so to me there is no real question between the two in terms of user experience.Remember if you got harassed with macos hate comments.
Apple is a multimillion corpo and you don’t have to defend any.Hahaha this. If you are paying them, this is not a community.
I think mostly people are defending themselves, when Linux people jump on the harassment train, it’s just that, harassment.
How can people claim Gnome isn’t trying to copy the Mac UI? If he didn’t say mac at all during the video, I’d think this is some Chinese desktop environment being compared with Gnome.
Because it’s very different? The bar defaulting to the top is the main similarity.
The entire video reveals how similar they are. Gnome is just Mac’s UI and tools with a linuxy feel. Gnome devs even have the same ideology as Malus “We know best”.
Okay… I don’t agree and I think it’s very objectively obvious that there are huge differences in the UX and design philosophy.
It’s been a while since I’ve used Gnome, but back when I did I also felt it lacked a lot of configurability much like the Mac.
In comparison, KDE felt a lot more like Windows (or how Windows used to be in the past) where you could configure and tweak all sorts of things.
I asked that once and it is pretty different.
- GNOME didnt look like that all the time. I dont know when but they went from bottom panel to top panel to left side panel to this layout.
- The top bar is used differently. Workspace indicator, but no global menu (which makes no sense) or app menu. Extensions can make it pretty much the same
- The dock is hidden and forces the workflow with workspaces. I dont think thats a crazy feature and dash to dock makes it equal again
- The window buttons are different
- The top bars are thicker etc.
Some settings are different, the tiling works better but yeah it is too similar.
GNOME has had a top panel for over 20 years, it just used to have two panels.
If anything to me gnome always seemed like some weird mix between macos, android, and chrome OS. That might be the material style theming though.
Left side panel was only ever Ubuntu only, no?
No, last Tails I used
I solved that problem by using a tiling window manager on every OS. Configure it to use your favorite shortcuts (from i3wm in this case), put super + spacebar as the whatever launcher you like and tadaaaa!
Everything feels more or less the same.
I do that since I became addicted to i3wm years ago. The worst part is just remembering the keywords to type in the launcher according to what OS you’re on.
Mac OS isn’t really usable for most people
And Linux is?
I want you to tell grandma how to update her video driver. Over the phone.
Buy your grandma a tablet or Chromebook
Only if you hate her.
Steps with Bazzite:
- Restart the computer
- Not needed, 1 did it.
- Seriously, 1 was all it takes. If there’s an update, it installs on boot
Atomic/Immutables are nice eh?
Have an update that completely breaks everything on your system? Just revert to the previous image and it’s no problem.
These immutable distros have so much potential. Especially for the tech illiterate. I really encourage anyone who hasn’t yet to give them a shot.
Of course they aren’t for everybody, as it makes it far harder to make system-level changes on the local system.
I have been using Linux since 2007. I have never had to update video drivers manually.
Sure, I don’t do gaming. But neither do most grandmothers.
I wouldn’t have to if she were using Pop!_OS. It’s completely self maintaining. Next time she turns it on it’ll install any pending updates.
My mom is not technical in the slightest and she’s been very happily using a laptop with Fedora Silverblue on it for 4+ years. I’ve had to help her with two problems, one of which didn’t even end up being a Linux problem.
Easy: “grandma, click update on the pop-up. Now restart. Done. What are you cooking for dinner tonight?”
@HollandJim @possiblylinux127 I had my mom running Linux. The biggest issues came from her expecting to having to install drivers and stuff when attaching a printer. " How do I make it work?" It just does. Linux issues only appeared because Windows is difficult.
I get your point but truth be told I never expected any family member to update their own stuff. If they want my help I take away their admin rights and do everything myself, remotely when needed. And Linux is much easier to deal with than Windows.
Why would grandma want to do that? I have set up computers for tech illiterate people with Linux quite successfully. You just tell them: „if it wants your password, you did something wrong. Never enter your password, unless you know exactly why“ Set and forget.
Watch out if they have fingerprint login. Ubuntu, at least, doesn’t unlock the user’s keyring if they log in by fingerprint, and are quickly presented with a password prompt to unlock the keyring
Buy your grandma a chromebook
My mother used Kubuntu for the last two decades of her life, and she was a great-grandmother.
It’s quite amazing you’ve picked that example. I just didn’t remember some people had to mess with video drivers. Last time I’ve done it was probably a decade ago, on Windows.
Linux isn’t really usable for most people
I think this is mostly because people who know about it have a mental block that it’s only for nerds. Millions have been using Android on their phones for years, though we’ll limit ourselves to desktop GNU/Linux type distributions for this discussion.
Actual usage of Linux has gotten much easier since 2006ish when I first tried it out. With all the popups and ads in Windows nowadays, its rapidly becoming harder to use than Linux, something I did not expect. I don’t see a combined Linux User Group/ Bingo Club/ Bridge Group forming anytime soon, but Linux Mint isn’t any harder to use than Windows, even for normies with an average level of tech skills.
I’ve been macOS user for past decade. I’ve switch to Linux a year ago and the first thing I did when I tried Gnome was to switch to KDE. I like how Gnome tries to mimic macOS but it’s still has long way ahead. Gnome was really good on a touch device but I kept hitting the wall with small quirks and eventually I switched to KDE. I know it’s unpopular opinion but I find macOS UI superior to both Gnome and KDE.
Because it is superior. It has been designed meticulously by hundreds of paid designers and developers who are all working towards a single goal. Apple literally wrote the book on user interface, and they apply those design principles to everything they do.
Granted, it may not always be the best choice for all users.
everyone has their preferences, and maybe it could also have something to do with you being so used to the macOS ui that anything else feels weird or wrong in a way?
Fwiw i have almost exactly the same feeling going from gnome to macos, sure its polished but it goes out of its way to make anything even slightly complicated incredibly difficult. So yeah im pretty sure its mostly familiarity.
That’s true, I might be biased because I was using macOS way longer. On the other hand I’ve been using Windows even longer and I have never liked Windows UI. I guess I have some expectations on how UI should look and work and macOS just hit the sweet spot.
What do you like about Mac’s UI more?
First of all I like how all apps, even the 3rd party ones, look alike. When using a new app I don’t have to learn the new UI. Most of the things are in the same place and I can almost intuitively click trough the UI. Also macOS feels smoother - I don’t know how to describe it, it just works out of the box and I don’t need to adjust the settings. The only thing I was updating was the touchpad scroll direction. Everything else had default settings set to my preferences. I liked the animations, placement of various elements and the fact I didn’t have to look how things work. It was as easy as it was designed to be for 5 year olds.
This is more an issue with GTK vs Qt apps. If you mainly use modern GTK apps it’s fairly consistent in my experience. Qt takes a Windows design philosophy with tons of nested context menus.
I love Linux and KDE Plasma, but my biggest complaint is the inconsistent UIs. Specifically the frames. If I have 5 windows all maximized, and I want to minimize a few of them, the frames could all be different thicknesses, or the minimize, maximize, and close buttons could all be different sizes from the other windows, causing you to need to move your mouse around to minimize each window. On Mac or Windows, you can hover the one spot and spam click, because you know every window will have the minimize button in the exact same spot.
I’ve been macOS user for past decade.
I find macOS UI superior to both Gnome and KDE.
I’m not surprised.
Also, I’m not sure if Gnome tries to mimic OS X or Windows or KDE, for the sake of this argument. Gnome (classic) was invented to replace (original) KDE, which sort-of tried to replace Windows.
Stuff evolves. UIs oscillate between minimalism and overload.
Just because Gnome has a top panel doesn’t mean it tried to copy MacOSX. Gnome tried to copy phone UIs (that have a top panel), not Mac or Windows. And that was the reason why many disliked Gnome, in fact. It seems that it’s optimizing for tablets and phones, while it’s running on desktops.
As someone who had to help coworkers with Windows, Mac and Linux problems one of the main problems of macOS is the fact that you have to use the clumsy GUI for so many things and that the Unix-like underpinnings are badly maintained and outdated so many systems have several versions of the same tool installed in various locations (OS-, Homebrew-, MacPorts- or whatever other package manager of the day versions).
Both are too similar and both suck :/
I mean, I do not want a copie of a closed sourced GUI where everything is behind some obscure hidden configuration… I often had that strange feeling of “why can’t I do that?” For simple basic things.
GNOME and MacOS both give me the same feeling of closed OS where you’re not in control over basic functionalities :/.
I have a Mac and GNOME on my debian desktop, I hatr both, but luckily I can change my DE on linux so I would say MacOS sucks way more ^^.
Just my 50cent.
I agree on that feeling. Even though GNOME is very customizable but the barrier to that is big.
GNOME settings are not obscured? And if you want more customization you can use tweaks, which, it’s true, don’t have centralized settings, but you have the power – on MacOS you’d be paying $5-10 for every tweak.
Just a simple example, on vanilla gnome you can not set nightlights to “always”, how stupid is that? Yeah there are some tweaks made by people you can download from the official gnome website… But than you have to trust their plugin/scripts…
I really don’t like that kind of modification :/
Yeah MacOS is probably the worst OS/GUI that ever existed, and that’s why following a similar path sounds just a bad idea…
Now do kde
KDE is okay out of the box, there are like 5 things I normally change from the defaults. It has tons of powerful apps (unlike GNOME?) Like KDENLive, Kate, etc.
GNOME on the other hand has tons of circle apps, with GIMP and Inkscape being the big players.
KDE connect made communicating with the couple people I know who still use SMS bearable
You can use gconnect on gnome
Mind to send a screenshot?
Of my messages and contact numbers? Not doing that
But its easy to find, just click the 3 bars next to the connected device and select SMS messages. KDE connect requires the app installed on the device to pair
Using Spectacle you can pixelate areas lol
Don’t pixelate. Just black out. There are de-pixelation technologies that can work if you know the font.
I think that was about blur, the pixels are so big that shouldnt work.
Gsconnect just works for me
MacOS is like taking an athlete (Linux), dressing it up as a K-pop band member and tying it to a post so they can only move in a specific way and sing the same song.
Why would anyone want that when you can have the pure, raw performance and stamina of the athele and make with them whatever you’d like?
@exanime @boredsquirrel ehh macOS has really polished software. It can also run a lot of the open source software Linux gets. Media seems better on it. Rogue Amoeba makes some legit stuff. But it’s more or less tied to the hardware. If it were open I’d run Linux on it and im hoping Asahi gets us there. macOS also a bit more user friendly focused. 🤷🏾♂️
I’m writing this from an M2 Air running NixOS via the Asahi bootloader installer and it’s an absolute delight. There are a few missing packages for the architecture, but surprisingly few. Everything works fine, except the fingerprint reader. (Having said all that, I like macos just fine.)
@pukeko that’s wonderful to hear. I got an M3 max (a huge stupid purchase I agonized about for a month before convincing myself I earned it lol) coming in just 10 or so days. But M3 support is behind M2 for now. And I don’t fault them for it. I’ll wait patiently for it to work.
My dream would be a finger print reading immutable Fedora running Sway with full disk ZFS encryption.
I had a thinkpad that got much of the way there. I never tried ZFS encryption, but I’m sure someone in the nixos world has figured that out.
Yes, but with FreeBSD instead of linux
Yes, *nix
I have a MacBook Pro and I recently tried GNOME3 for the million time. macOS wins. GNOME3 sucks.
Ain’t no way you really meant to say gnome 3 right?
The very same.
GNOME 3 is from 2011
GNOME3 will always be the succesor of the defunct GNOME2. It doesn’t matter that you call it GNOME 43 because of the version.
Well GNOME evolved a ton. I agree GNOME 3 looked horrible, GNOME 43+ is really slick
It evolved, and still sucks…
It really doesn’t. Perhaps you just have bad taste or something.
I feel like this video exposes the restrictions of both desktop environments compared to already completed solutions like KDE, XFCE, and Compiz which can all be configured to be 1:1 with Mac or 1:1 with Windows.
I can personally say going from windows to stock GNOME on both Ubuntu and Fedora was definitely not a nice experience at all.
You just said XFCE is more complete than GNOME?
And Compiz is just a single (outdated, Xorg based) Compositor, how whould that work?
Strong point haha, I am interested about arguments.
(Yes KDE has a ton more. But it has too much maybe. I like how COSMIC epoch just takes all the best of the others, learning from the stuff they do just now, but with a fresh codebase in Rust)
but yeah GNOME is very restricted in stupid ways, especially as for example an app entry modification setting is not a huge thing.
I meant in the sense of the UI lol.
Gnome and kde are both way ahead in that they offer a proper app library and integration with devices.
Xfce is just a bunch of apps stuck together that happen to be good enough on their own, but aren’t really interconnected.
I mentioned compiz because iirc it was one of the first compositors to outshine all the fancy window effects and behavior of Mac and Windows and still be configurable for both. Things like app switchers, snap windows, workspaces, etc. It just feels more intuitive to use than stock gnome.
I currently use an unholy combination of xfce with compiz, but once xfce upgrades to Wayland, I’ll probably get Wayfire to replace compiz.
I didnt know Windowses Window manager (DWM? Explorer?) had any fancy effects. It is boring as hell but also stable as hell.
yeah I dont know what the best minimal Wayland compositor is.
I am using KDE Plasma since I first tried it, but have separate drives with GNOME, COSMIC-Epoch, Cinnamon etc.
Also want to try LXQt (but it seems many of “their apps” like yarock or qpdfview are not packaged anymore?) and looking for the best Compositor here.
- cosmic-comp: honestly I think soon the best. But pre-alpha, no selinux profile yet, and pulls in complete cosmic (packaging issue)
- kwin: best currently, tons of needed features, but pulls in half of KDE and random other stuff
- wayfire: probably nice? Pulls in also a lot of GTK stuff
- labwc: no idea, probably the best minimal one, but as I never heard anything I suppose less good?
- something louvre? No idea
- mutter: likely just good for GNOME? Could be a good option, if they dont intentionally make stuff only work with GNOME
- something that XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie will produce
And that left out sway, niri, hyprland, river and other tiling WMs.
Wtf why are people downvoting this.
BIG kDE is suppressing this post.
The big shadowy kabal of would-be konquerors…
I use Plasma 6 myself and it is pretty awesome. But GNOME (which is btw pronounced as in a-gn-ostic) is also cool
some people hate gnome
Some people hate life.
KDE echo chamber
I use KDE but GNOME is cool too lol.
Btw it is pronounced with a G.
I also use KDE because it’s better for gaming. But I love GNOME’s UX/UI. I wish I could go back.
Checkout some videos by Michael Horn, GNOME 46 is actually pretty good for gaming.
In what ways is it better for gaming?
The Gamecontroller calibration and test all is pretty nifty in KDE. Something like that is dearly missing on GNOME.
I use jstest-gtk. Really light handy tool for testing and calibration. Antimicrox also works great for rebinding controllers.
Same, only reasons I had to move to KDE were, GNOME crashes when both my monitors are off (so, every night when I go to sleep), and tray icons are terrible (as GNOME intentionally doesn’t support them), the extensions are all very lacking in features compared to the Windows tray (kde somewhat matches almost everything except being able to reorder the icons).
The ArcMenu extension is by far the start menu I’ve liked the most out of all options on linux, and it saddens me that there’s no KDE plasmoid/widget variant
“gee-nome”? Got it!
like in a-gn-ostic ?
Gonna-nome?
(⁀ᗢ⁀)
Agonnanostic
It’s pronounced “juh-know-may.”
Only if you have a Klingon accent.
It’s a Klingon tea-like beverage. A warrior’s drink!
I prefer KDE for desktops, but gnome for laptops. However I’ve been using gnome on my desktop for a while now. With some minor customizations it’s fine.
GDE?
Or as english people would say DE
You will never make me pronounce the G. Never!
Oh, this is getting dangerous now.
GIF has a hard G, unlike gNOME. 🔪
Pronounced “Jif”?
jNOME ;)
Wait, you don’t pronounce the G? So it’s like… “NOM-NOM-NOM”?
LOL. Yes, but add an E at the end. Like this::
Thats only in english. In german it is Gnom and you pronounce the Gn correctly.
Just no
https://m.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/gnu.html
Halmafelix pronounces Gnu (the animal) which is just the same as GNOME.
G-N-O-M-E
Like Genome? Or Guh-nome?
Hahaha no like GNOME
https://m.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/gnu.html
The Halmafelix voice pronounces it correctly.
But thats not your fault, english is like french, not pronouncing the G in gnome. It is like a-gn-ostic
some people need to grow up lol
Gnome’s Nautilus is a long way away from being Finder. It certainly trying very hard, and there are some things I like about Nautilus more than I like about Finder, but Finder has a lot of polish that is missing from Nautilus.
That said, I look forward to The development of Nautilus and all of the improvements that will bring.
Finder? Polished? Even compared to Windows Explorer, Finder is terrible.
Huh, i have the complete opposite reaction. Having to move to macos for work finder is probably my least favourite bit. It feelsblikebitbis deliverately trying to hide the file system and my files from me and just give me the files it thinks i want, id have nautilus or thunar installed in a heartbeat.
I hate finder so much lol
The list of things you can do is a bit cherry picked too. For example, in a web browser file upload dialog, try previewing the images you want to upload. You can’t do it in Gnome. It’s been an outstanding fix request for 20+ years!
All I read here is “finder is better, but I won’t give you any reasons”. My sister is a die hard Apple fan, and she hates finder. So, yeah, unless you can bring a good argument for your claim, finder is pretty crap.
Funny, because that’s not at all what I said.
And I wasn’t making an argument, I was expressing an opinion. If you want an argument, go to somebody else.
Nah, I’m good, your downvote speaks for itself.
