- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
The Trump administration is preparing to cancel a large swath of federal funding for California, an effort that could begin as soon as Friday, according to multiple sources.
Agencies are being told to start identifying grants the administration can withhold from California. Sources said the administration is specifically considering a full termination of federal grant funding for the University of California and California State University systems.
Singling out one state for massive cuts would be an unusual move, but Donald Trump has long made Democratic-led California a target.
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That is exactly what should happen.
That would break the bank. California is 4th largest economy in the world, after the U.S., China, and Germany. It would probably cause Trump to declare martial law and send troops to California.
If you subtract California from the USA is it still #1?
Yes. The U.S. GDP is around $30 trillion. China is around $19 trillion. California is around $4 trillion.
Let’s get it over with.
Yeah but how the fuck would he pay the troops without, you know, California’s money?
I maintain the quickest way for military and LEOs to drop support for Trump is realizing they aren’t gonna get paid or that their money has become essentially worthless. Either scenario will pit them against him. If they can’t feed their families they will turn, considering it’s an all volunteer military. He would have to instate a harsh draft first to avoid that.
realizing they aren’t gonna get paid or that their money has become essentially worthless.
If California’s taxes suddenly evaporated, it would create a massive budget deficit that would have to be plugged by printing money, would debase the currency and likely cause hyperinflation.
Which would render the US essentially worthless, resulting in soldiers and LEOs essentially being “unpaid” and no longer willing to support Trump.
Ya’ll gotta understand that california doesn’t just hand over big bags of money once a year, the mechanisms of payment are numerous and vastly complex, often overseen directly by the IRS in concert with interstate banking groups which california has no authority over. Add to that, the federal budget is a budget. The feds already have payroll secured for the forseeable future, certainly long enough to roll in and arrest Newsom (et. al.) for sedition. The conservative hate machine has, as well, been painting “Commiefornia” as the enemy for years. Troops have been fantasizing about rolling tanks down sunset boulevard and pacifying those uppity libs for decades now, it’s not like that sentiment can’t or won’t be exploited by the trump admin.
There’s just no feasible scenario in which this would end well for california.
Maybe, maybe not. What you have to consider is that when you are in the military, the federal government owns you like livestock. They feed you, house you, and can send you to your death. You don’t necessarily need money, especially in the short term. Moreover, there are rules that prevent active duty military from being ejected from housing. You might not be happy about dollar devaluation, but the blame will be focused on the “bad” people of California and you’re there to make it right. It would take a lot for the U.S. military machine to grind to a halt, and a lot of damage can be done while it is happening.
Another common idea is that the good folks in the military aren’t going to shoot civilians, and would rebel if ordered to. While there might be some isolated rebellion, most people in the military are conditioned to follow orders, and will do so, even if such orders are illegal. People will do what they have to to keep the pressure off themselves.
You don’t necessarily need money, especially in the short term.
If you have kids, you do. Plenty of people in the military with spouses and children.
the trick is to have them shoot their kids especially if they live in california with them then they wont feel bad for not getting paid to shoot their kids
I assure you, you can be both active duty and broke shitless. Its heavily subsidized food, lodging, and bare necessities; and the current government is trying to slash even those benefits. There’s also only so long you can keep people happy without disposable income.
I’d love to sign up but I have really bad bone spurs…
I mean, good luck? CA is also obscenely well defended, since most of its modern wealth came from it being considered a battleground vs Japan and Russia, so there’s loads of bases.
Most likely, this will just yet again be a defeat in court. That dude is just throwing shit against the wall and hoping some of it will stick.
That and the geography is an absolute mf for logistics. There’s like three good roads that cross the Sierra Nevada.
Why are people still convinced that the courts have any meaningful power anymore? The orangeboi regime has already flagrantly ignored a ton of court rulings; they’ll continue to ignore more court rulings. They don’t care. It’s not “who’s gonna let me”; it’s “who’s gonna stop me”. Orangeboi et al have inserted their own loyalist flunkies into the leadership of all the organizations that can effectively function as the enforcement of court decisions. There are no guardrails anymore. “Checks and balances” is and always was a gentlemen’s agreement, and it’s no longer being honored.
You’re assuming Trump wouldn’t also fuck over troops stationed here in California. Remember military personnel are reliant on local infrastructure in a lot of areas and if Trump starts fucking with it again the military may be caught in the crossfire.
I’m assuming the comment “declaring martial law” would require nat guard (natives) and stationed troops (federal) to attempt to impose order. Not sure what that has to do with local infra, but the last time they tried that (LA Riots) it didn’t go great. Doing it for a strictly political reason would likely result in some very hard decisions for a lot of nat guard and some federal career military. The Nat Guard and federales couldn’t even restore order in South Central when most of the state was in their corner, it’d be madness to think they could handle the whole state when it was over a pissing match.
California gets roughly $162.9 billion from the fed. California pays roughly $692 billion to the fed in taxes.
It’d be pretty easy to see them choosing to just withhold whatever Trump decided to deny them and say “fine, then we’ll just make up the offset, suck it”, and then things would get interesting indeed.
I thought ya meant that because of how militarized the state was it’d be hard for the state to respond. I was just stating you could cut water and electricity as a response to that.
But yeah you are right on the fact the response would at best be a mess, honestly if they were told to occupy the state they’d probably just sit around getting heat stroke and doing nothing.
(cue cut scene of Twenty-nine Palms) :D I think you’re right
That entire section of the hi desert may as well be summarized as “do nothing get heat stroke”.
so there’s loads of bases
Staffed with federal employees. Fort Hunter isn’t going to protect Californians from the Pentagon. It is the Pentagon.
Also, and this is a much bigger deal, Gavin Newsome is a cowardly little parasite. He’s not going to side with Californians on this. He’s going to grovel on his belly and lick Trump’s shoes hoping he can convince The Donald to relent.
Most likely, this will just yet again be a defeat in court.
So long as DOGE runs the US Treasury, it hardly matters. If Trump starts cancelling payments and reversing transactions at a California scale, he’ll drag the whole country into recession overnight. Courts can issue orders, but only the Treasury has the power to authorize payments.
Sign me up for Cali’s defense. Better to fight Trump and his kind, than to live with them for the rest of my life.
To do what?
California can just stop aiding the IRS in collecting tax.
How could California do that when taxes are paid directly by the taxee to the IRS?
Change your withholding, then only pay state tax.
ban local/state agencies from assisting the IRS with tax enforcement
Start cutting power, water, and gas to federal offices and facilities, let’s see if they can do jack shit when it’s 90 degrees outside and 110 inside. Mind you that is just me thinking reconciliation is stupid and shouldn’t be considered as a possibility.
That’s what Trump wants, to burn it all down.
West coast has enough intelligence and money to navigate without the federal govt.
That’s not the point. By cutting off water electricity etc you are helping Trump dismantle the federal government. You know that Trump guy that said “we want federal employees to hate going into work” well congratulations you just helped him big time.
Those very workers might be happy working for the state should CA make that offer to workers helping manage dams etc, particularly if compensation is the same or better. Organizationally, there would be some disarray, but…
It’d be interesting to directly head-hunt the federal offices until they were empty, even if it were just temporary.
Sigh. Federal and state cover different things. If you think you can dismantle the fed and everyone can just go to the state and everything will be the same, then you really are no different than the Trumpers that want to burn everything down. I’m out of this conversation.
I was wondering about this. The new BBB or whatever increases SALT to 40k. I live in Jersey. I would have no problem with NJ just taxing me 40k outright. You just pay 40k to live in NJ. And then I just deduct that 40k from my federal tax burden, bringing it down below 0. What’s stopping states from doing this?
The irs wouldn’t recognize the deduction and you would still owe the entire amount to the federal government.
I’m curious why you say this, and I’m not trying to be argumentative. I pay 11k for property taxes, and so with this I get to deduct that 11k from my federal taxes. And if you mean to say that the IRS and the Feds would be like hey, you can’t do that, yeah, you’re probably right, and I agree. I’m just curious if you had some other rationale for the suggestion. I am no tax expert.
It would be considered tax evasion. Deductions not authorized by federal statute, have no affect on federal tax laws. Start following your own rules, and they will come knocking on your door. Of course with staffing cuts, it could be years from now when they show up.
Yeah, I guess I’m still a little confused. You’re allowed to deduct State and Local taxes on your federal return. Now it’s 10k, the BBB raises it to 40k. I’m just saying states should levy a tax to maximize the SALT deduction for everyone, because you’re allowed to do it. But it’s not going to happen, just me being silly.
I was misunderstanding a bit myself. I was thinking you meant by yourself. As a state, California could possibly increase property taxes to maximize everyone’s salt deduction. As more of a long term solution it might even be an idea depending on California constitutional law. More likely though, they would just have to fight the illegal impoundment in the court. While it would likely take months to get done, changing tax law the the affects of that would take years.
That’s the problem California doesn’t send taxes to the Federal government. People and businesses pay directly to the government. There’s no mechanism to even stop it on a state level if a governor wanted to.
ban local/state agencies from assisting the IRS with tax enforcement
They don’t do that now. The IRS contacts the bank, that’s licensed as a bank by the federal government, and tells them to close your account. Usually the first step is to freeze your assets, then they start taking things. The banks aren’t going to argue, they’re not going to give up their entire business just to protect you, or a single state. Even if it is California.
That is an oversimplification. While the IRS can issue levies to federally regulated banks, it usually requires a formal legal process such as a tax lien or a court order. Banks do not comply automatically without proper documentation. State laws can influence how quickly or effectively the IRS operates, especially if the state limits data sharing, delays cooperation, or questions jurisdiction. Not all banks are federally chartered. Some are licensed at the state level and may face different legal pressures. California cannot stop the IRS entirely, but it can slow down enforcement, create legal friction, and raise the political stakes.
No taxation without representation.
Remember, the state doesn’t pay taxes, individual citizens do by filling out their annual federal income taxes.
So, if “California” were to stop giving money to the federal government, the governor would basically need to convince individual citizens not to file their 1040.
And all of those people would have to clinch their assholes and hope Trump didn’t sick the IRS on them.
They can stop taking federal taxes out of state employee pay
But then each of those people get walloped with a big ass 1040 payment from the feds at the end of the year. And they feds can chose to make an “example” of random people who don’t pay up.
Also employers would need to all simultaneously stop withholding taxes from employee paychecks for federal taxes, since you can’t just update your W-2 to a $0 withholding without claiming dependents, multiple other jobs, etc. You don’t “choose” your withholding, you just check the boxes that calculates the minimum withholding.
If we had less of a coward in sacramento, id say they could back us.
Presumably California would declare that they wouldn’t comply with IRS investigations but those people would be vulnerable if they travel or have assets outside California
If Californians (Or everyone) just filed for extensions en masse, that alone would fuck shit up and would be totally legal.
A little, but not that much. The federal government already has most of the money because of tax withholding from employers. When you file taxes as an employee you’re just balancing what’s leftover and playing “did I over or under pay even though you already know that.” It would require the state preventing employers from withholding or sending money to the IRS on behalf of their employees, and I doubt companies would just unilaterally stop doing that.
In fact it might help the federal government cause people tend to be owed more refunds than unpaid tax.
If Californians (Or everyone) just filed for extensions en masse
Most people don’t owe the IRS money. They’re owed a rebate. How would filing for an extension benefit someone who is expecting a $2000 check back from the IRS for excess paid?
If you’re planning to do any sort of tax strike, step one is zeroing your withholdings.
Based on my research, this is what I’m seeing as well, an important first step.
If it really starts affecting the economy, expect the ability to set your withholdings to vanish.
For private businesses sure, but Newsom can simply set up an escrow account and direct all state government entities to send their federal withholding to the new account instead.
California imposes a new law that companies operating in Cali cannot automatically collect federal income tax from Californian citizens.
Cali raises the state tax rate to match the current federal rate (could probably go lower actually, since Cali is subsidizing most of the red states).
Boom, no more taxes paid to the Fed.
Or… Cali’s creates a law where their own tax department collects the federal tax and pays it for their citizens.
Californexit
Califexit. Or Cali Fecks Off depending where n your point of view.
All the blue states should do this. Shake off the conservative parasites.
Next: California will not pay Federal taxes?
Raging war on the greatest state within the country that he rules. What a fucking sack of shit.
Maybe someone will cancel tRump. One can dream …
Krasnov and his Kremlin bosses always wanted to turn California into another fucking red run oblast shithole like Arkansas.
What Tsar Vlad wants to see.
So pandering to Trump didn’t help Newsom amazing how that works
Cali should stop paying taxes.
I’m not paying taxes to a fascist government. A State can figure out how to do it too.
Easier said than done. Payroll systems do this automatically
How many stories about a modern American civil war start with this exact scenario?
Opposite states of America
The ICE raids are meant to cause the response we are seeing, and eventually an even more powerful response. The White House has already been throwing around the word insurrection, which implies the insurrection act. If the natural escalation that they expect takes place, it could create the conditions where the insurrection act can be invoked. Since the Federal level is under control of the Trump Administration, that leaves the National Guard, state police, county sheriffs, and local police departments. The only one of these capable of standing up to the Feds would be the National Guard. If things turn ugly over the next few weeks during continued raids in places like L.A., it could force the Governor to deploy the national guard given the numbers of people involved. Some of these communities are well armed and they are already fighting back. If the goal is to cause the conditions to invoke the insurrection act, it would take away the ablity of the California Governor to direct his national guard. They can be forced to follow the orders of the President, which is one of the reasons for using the Insurrection Act in the first place.
In a place like L.A., this leaves just the LAPD and Sherrifs department and they do not have the power to stop both the Feds and a national guard under White House control. L.A. seems to be heavily targeted by the Trump administration in many different ways. They are looking at bribery and corruption in many areas like LA Homeless Agency. The ICE raids targeted the Fashion District are meant as an economic attack, as many of those people worked in shops and factories. Other ICE raids targeted companies involved in agriculture. The Trump admin is also looking at other Federal funding to take away from California.
All of this combined could mean that the state Government, state and local police cannot protect these communities from what is being sent after them, partially as an overall form of economic warfare against California generally. You have the wildfire funds, the tariffs attacking the shipping areas of coastal California, and it’s obvious that it is a well planned operation. Behind this too is a hostile DOJ and FBI, not to mention DHS, ICE, and everyone else. They are being hunted.
The State Government can’t protect anyone either, they have been totally outmanuvered at every stage, because they are just coasting until 2026. The one advantage people have is their numbers. Peaceful protest is the way forward, it just takes a lot more people knowing about the raids and being present to protest them. If the Trump admin wants a Kent state or Tiananmen Square type situation on their hands, that will be on them…
“The takeover will be bloodless if the left allows it to be.”
There’s your choice, America.
They got guns, we got guns…
Just so others know that is an actual quote.
"I want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” - Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts
I will find this man and show him how peaceful the left can be.
National Guard was already deployed by Trump to Los Angeles today.
I posted that about 30 minutes before it happened.
better to just balkanize the blue states, and let the red states without welfare for a change.
Another day another senile ramble
If the Federal Government boycotts California, then California should close every Federal agency, prohibit all Federal employees from working, and confiscate all Federal property, then make it illegal to pay Federal income taxes in California. Instead, Federal income taxes will be collected by the state, and used to provide free health care and college for all California citizens.
They should also form a state pact with Oregon and Washington, then form an alliance with Canada and Mexico. That would surround about 3/4 of the USA
That would allow them to cut off MAGA access to the west coast ports, and charge exorbitant taxes and fees to get shipments from Asia, or be forced to ship them through the Panama Canal to the East Coast.
The war that would result would be like nothing any of us have ever experienced, except for our veterans, perhaps, though they would never have had to fight their own people before. The only people who would truly know ahead of time what to expect would be those who came to this country from war-torn regions that had experienced civil war.
California is powerful economically, but do they have the military might to withstand the hell that the US Army can unleash? If other states join them, it’ll be utter chaos, and who knows how it ends, but that might turn the tide for the rebels as the military would likely fracture as many might follow their states to the exit.
Aside from utter dissolution of the Union, the only way I can see California standing up to the USA would be to have a nuclear deterrent available immediately upon independence, which would likely mean seizing as many federal nuclear weapons as they could. Whether the California National Guard would be up to that is beyond my ken.
God help us all if Trump continues on this path.
Considering that many members of the military have been based in California for a long time, it has become their home. They have met their lovers, raised families, known comrades, and steeped in the culture of California. I think it is a fair bet that a large chunk of the military in California would be loyal to the territory. Washington is a far off place, filled with cretinous and bonespur-ridden leaders who badmouthed the service of those who were willing to bleed.
Here’s hoping this assertion holds true. If not, the nation is well and truly lost to evil.
Funny thing Is that Trump would nuke California. He’s speed running the Civil War movie that came out.
And get nuked in return, assuming weapons could be seized by California and employed. But you’re right: I could see that egomaniac fucking us all over further by starting a nuclear conflict.
God, I want my family out of this country, but there’s nowhere to go.
Before my dad went down the Qanon hole. He told me America was the last place on earth for true freedom. And we ran away from a genocide because our overlords turned on us.
california doesnt even need federal funding. california funds everyone else.
We also feed everyone else.
All blue states feed the poorly uneducated.
How about California cancelling paying federal taxes in turn? This would probably lead to a big loss for the federal budget, wouldn’t it?
