Jonathan Joss stood on his lawn screaming at people while wielding a crossbow. Jonathan Joss showed up at panels he had no part of, drunk, trying to take part and then tried to set up a shoe shine shop outside. Jonathan Joss also said a few months ago he burned his house down with his dogs in it after leaving a propane heater on.
He did rule. We are poorer for his murder. But I don’t know if this is an out and out hate crime or two people with mental health issues echoing off of each other until someone got killed and, frankly, I’m mildly concerned that everyone immediately jumped on the hate crime wagon. I’m gay and I suck. If someone kills me it’s certainly not because I’m gay. Jonathan Joss had some serious issues and I’m pretty apprehensive to call this a hate crime when he was waving crossbows at people on his lawn and when the dude who shot him would also wave down people in the street and stop their car while threatening them.
You’re jumping through a lot of hoops to portray a gay man as aggressive so you can justify his murder. Let’s start here:
1.) All three dogs were found
Nothing in the article confirms they only had three dogs. On top of that, other sources you posted said they only found 2 dogs. Including this video from earlier today that is even more recent than the article that alleges they lost their three which is from Janurary. We also have no idea if there were more than 3 dogs, because the term they found all three dogs anywhere in your source. Simply that they found 3, and that number isn’t even likely correct.
2.) 3.) What caused the fire?
Police themselves say they don’t know. If it was an accidental fire from the propane, grill, etc, it would be incredibly easy to determine if that was the caus of the fire. The fact they couldn’t is either a sign to their utter incompetence, or that there was foul play. Even your own source for 4 had this quote:
I have classified this fire to be undetermined in nature at this time but cannot rule out human involvement intentional or unintentional
They already knew there was a heat source, but they can’t confirm the fire started from there? That’s extremely suspect. Meanwhile getting away with arson is fairly easy due to the nature of fire. Given these circumstances, you needs a lot more evidence to prove Jonathan Joss was the person responsible for his house fire.
4.) 5.) Previous incidents.
He was loud and brazen, likely because of the abuse he received. However there is zero evidence for Jonathan ever aimed crossbow at his neighbors house. The only evidence for this claim from a few anonymous neighbors, and the fact they found a crossbow on his property during a search. The pitchfork wielding was because he found his dog dead. Again, nothing in your text proves whatsoever that Jonathan didn’t find his third dog. Or even that Jonathan only had 3 dogs. Considering even the NBC source says 2 dogs found, that’s 2 sources to your 1 saying otherwise. So it seems like there were only 2 dogs found.
6.) SAFFE investigation
First off, I’d like to see any evidence to the claim that Johnathan would shoot guns on his property. I haven’t seen a single substantiated claim that has ever happened. Second, the crossbow incident can’t be substantiated whatsoever either. Jonathan had a crossbow, but there’s zero evidence he ever brought it to his neighbors house. Plus it’s weird that you bring that up like it happened repeatedly. Even if it did happen, which again there’s zero evidence to it having happened, it only happened once.
And literally none of your sources ever once ask or answer where all of this animosity stemmed from. It very much seems like it could be a hate-crime, and its weird that you’re in multiple threads railing against Joss. You have a weird vendetta it seems.
I’ve been going through sources the past couple of hours over this and I have no fucking idea what is going on. Joss and his husband seems to have given so many conflicting stories that I genuinely don’t know what is the truth anymore. This is exactly why I’m really apprehensive about calling this a hate crime or homophobia.
The one I read initially said that he was using a propane heater indoors. That was this article. He said he was staying at a hotel to keep warm but came home to warm up the house for the dogs with a propane heater.
Yet in this article he says that it was a propane grill that they had used to make hot chocolate. Also in that article he says something extremely important. That all three dogs were found which kind of puts it at odds with the claim that the dogs skull and harness was left behind. Also at odds with yet another article where he says
Then there is this interview where he says that he was starting a fire inside of the house to keep warm.
It doesnt change it being a hate crime.
It… completely does. A hate crime is not a crime committed against someone of a minority while a slur is being said. It is a crime that is motivated because that person is a minority. It’s why the cops are saying this isn’t a hate crime. They had calls going back months over whatever was going on between these two and I seriously doubt that the dude hated Joss because he was native american or was gay when Joss was, once again, threatening people on his lawn with a crossbow and banging pots and pans at all hours of the night.
Its possible they were shot for different reasons, but Joss’s husband and another neighbor both stated that they were harassed due to his sexuality. Joss clearly worsened the tensions with his neighbor, but it seems very likely that it initially started due to their issues with his sexuality.
Disagree on the two people needing help. The shooter doesn’t deserve help and obviously was a bigoted racist. Joss definitely needed help, but the shooter? Fuck 'em.
If my neighbor, who is a crazy abusive asshole, was doing everything you described i wouldn’t shoot them. Who the fuck shoots people for being crazy?
Jesus fucking christ. Why do I need to spell this out? It isn’t normal to go off and shoot someone just like it isn’t normal to parade around in your lawn with a crossbow. Both people needed help. That is literally all I said and somehow you managed to some how get upset and offended over me saying “Hey, maybe people who go off and shoot people should get help before they do that.”
What the sweet and sour fuck kind of reaction is that?
I like your way with words. I still completely disagree with having sympathy for the shooter. Its not just your comment that’s driving my feelings and I haven’t bought into the “he was a harmless gay guy” narrative either. In general I have very little sympathy for people who choose to shoot someone for a disagreement.
I may put people into different groups than most. I’ve encountered too many crazy people over the years I think. Most of them are so much more evil than most people would like to believe. Its fine to think most people are inherently good. Because it’s probably true. The real issue is the percent of people who just suck, and dont deserve help, beyond being walked into their own grave.
Jonathan Joss stood on his lawn screaming at people while wielding a crossbow. Jonathan Joss showed up at panels he had no part of, drunk, trying to take part and then tried to set up a shoe shine shop outside. Jonathan Joss also said a few months ago he burned his house down with his dogs in it after leaving a propane heater on.
He did rule. We are poorer for his murder. But I don’t know if this is an out and out hate crime or two people with mental health issues echoing off of each other until someone got killed and, frankly, I’m mildly concerned that everyone immediately jumped on the hate crime wagon. I’m gay and I suck. If someone kills me it’s certainly not because I’m gay. Jonathan Joss had some serious issues and I’m pretty apprehensive to call this a hate crime when he was waving crossbows at people on his lawn and when the dude who shot him would also wave down people in the street and stop their car while threatening them.
Stamets and picking the worst take on an issue, classic combo
Homophobic shitheel, you are, but classic
Okay. Am I supposed to know who you are?
You’re not supposed to do anything with a reply on a forum, dumbass. Just having fun pointing out that you’re a regular dipshit-poster is all
You’re jumping through a lot of hoops to portray a gay man as aggressive so you can justify his murder. Let’s start here:
Nothing in the article confirms they only had three dogs. On top of that, other sources you posted said they only found 2 dogs. Including this video from earlier today that is even more recent than the article that alleges they lost their three which is from Janurary. We also have no idea if there were more than 3 dogs, because the term they found all three dogs anywhere in your source. Simply that they found 3, and that number isn’t even likely correct.
Police themselves say they don’t know. If it was an accidental fire from the propane, grill, etc, it would be incredibly easy to determine if that was the caus of the fire. The fact they couldn’t is either a sign to their utter incompetence, or that there was foul play. Even your own source for 4 had this quote:
They already knew there was a heat source, but they can’t confirm the fire started from there? That’s extremely suspect. Meanwhile getting away with arson is fairly easy due to the nature of fire. Given these circumstances, you needs a lot more evidence to prove Jonathan Joss was the person responsible for his house fire.
He was loud and brazen, likely because of the abuse he received. However there is zero evidence for Jonathan ever aimed crossbow at his neighbors house. The only evidence for this claim from a few anonymous neighbors, and the fact they found a crossbow on his property during a search. The pitchfork wielding was because he found his dog dead. Again, nothing in your text proves whatsoever that Jonathan didn’t find his third dog. Or even that Jonathan only had 3 dogs. Considering even the NBC source says 2 dogs found, that’s 2 sources to your 1 saying otherwise. So it seems like there were only 2 dogs found.
First off, I’d like to see any evidence to the claim that Johnathan would shoot guns on his property. I haven’t seen a single substantiated claim that has ever happened. Second, the crossbow incident can’t be substantiated whatsoever either. Jonathan had a crossbow, but there’s zero evidence he ever brought it to his neighbors house. Plus it’s weird that you bring that up like it happened repeatedly. Even if it did happen, which again there’s zero evidence to it having happened, it only happened once.
And literally none of your sources ever once ask or answer where all of this animosity stemmed from. It very much seems like it could be a hate-crime, and its weird that you’re in multiple threads railing against Joss. You have a weird vendetta it seems.
No. I said that this isn’t a hate crime. That is literally the only point that I was making and I made that abundantly clear.
If you’re going to invent your own bullshit narratives then don’t expect me to play along with them
So you’re jumping through hoops and to conclusions. Take your own advice guy.
Funny, you’re the one that’s been doing that. Especially since you’ve been spreading outright false info to push your point.
Edit: I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone throw a tantrum in their edits the way OP just did lmao
Source? The report I saw said he used a barbecue indoors but that it was turned off and the investigation didnt find it to be the cause.
Even if he had other issues, the killer still shot him while shouting homophobic slurs at him. It doesnt change it being a hate crime.
I think you need to do some reading on what a hate crime is.
Driving down to a gay bar and indiscriminately attacking gays because they are gay? That’s a hate crime.
Getting into an argument and shooting your neighbour you’ve had many arguments and threats with before - just a regular old murder.
Unless the arguments they had stemmed from Jonathan being gay. Which is the claim his husband is making.
I’ve been going through sources the past couple of hours over this and I have no fucking idea what is going on. Joss and his husband seems to have given so many conflicting stories that I genuinely don’t know what is the truth anymore. This is exactly why I’m really apprehensive about calling this a hate crime or homophobia.
The one I read initially said that he was using a propane heater indoors. That was this article. He said he was staying at a hotel to keep warm but came home to warm up the house for the dogs with a propane heater.
Yet in this article he says that it was a propane grill that they had used to make hot chocolate. Also in that article he says something extremely important. That all three dogs were found which kind of puts it at odds with the claim that the dogs skull and harness was left behind. Also at odds with yet another article where he says
Then there is this interview where he says that he was starting a fire inside of the house to keep warm.
It… completely does. A hate crime is not a crime committed against someone of a minority while a slur is being said. It is a crime that is motivated because that person is a minority. It’s why the cops are saying this isn’t a hate crime. They had calls going back months over whatever was going on between these two and I seriously doubt that the dude hated Joss because he was native american or was gay when Joss was, once again, threatening people on his lawn with a crossbow and banging pots and pans at all hours of the night.
Its possible they were shot for different reasons, but Joss’s husband and another neighbor both stated that they were harassed due to his sexuality. Joss clearly worsened the tensions with his neighbor, but it seems very likely that it initially started due to their issues with his sexuality.
Disagree on the two people needing help. The shooter doesn’t deserve help and obviously was a bigoted racist. Joss definitely needed help, but the shooter? Fuck 'em.
If my neighbor, who is a crazy abusive asshole, was doing everything you described i wouldn’t shoot them. Who the fuck shoots people for being crazy?
Crazy people.
Which is why they need help.
Jesus fucking christ. Why do I need to spell this out? It isn’t normal to go off and shoot someone just like it isn’t normal to parade around in your lawn with a crossbow. Both people needed help. That is literally all I said and somehow you managed to some how get upset and offended over me saying “Hey, maybe people who go off and shoot people should get help before they do that.”
What the sweet and sour fuck kind of reaction is that?
I like your way with words. I still completely disagree with having sympathy for the shooter. Its not just your comment that’s driving my feelings and I haven’t bought into the “he was a harmless gay guy” narrative either. In general I have very little sympathy for people who choose to shoot someone for a disagreement.
I may put people into different groups than most. I’ve encountered too many crazy people over the years I think. Most of them are so much more evil than most people would like to believe. Its fine to think most people are inherently good. Because it’s probably true. The real issue is the percent of people who just suck, and dont deserve help, beyond being walked into their own grave.