My current phone is 7 years old, does not support recent android versions, and battery life is becoming atrocious. This feels like right time to change my phone.
Currently, I know of & am considering 3 options:
- Google Pixel
- iPhone
- Samsung Galaxy
I heard that Pixel is the best choice for privacy, despite it being Google^TM. Should I go with it, and install Graphene OS or similar options? The very fact that the name “Google” is attached makes me nervous. Also, I don’t think I can trust android, so I would have to install Graphene OS or the like. In the case, app support would be lacking, though.
I am considering iPhone as well, since it has “reputation” of being secure. Of course, Apple can access my data, but that might be a good enough compromise? Honestly, I don’t know. It’s the best supported option as well - lots of apps support iPhone.
Galaxy is just the one that I am the most familiar with (my current one is Galaxy S8). I don’t trust it, though. Do they even make good hardware nowadays?
EDIT: Turns out, Pixel phones are poorly supported by local telecomm companies. It is relatively cheap though. Still worth it?
EDIT2: I heard that data & message is fine, but the call quality is impacted by lack of VoLTE compatibility.
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Using a Pixel 6 with Graphene here with google services in their sandbox. It’s pretty neat, especially with apps like Firefox+uBlock and GrayJay, which let me also block 99% of ads, which was very important to me. I have not had trouble with any banking apps either.
In my opinion, the Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is considered the gold standard in terms of security and privacy. While I am not fully knowledgeable about its capabilities, it offers a comprehensive suite of security features.
The iPhone is also a viable option. You can easily swap between iCloud to a more secure encrypted provider for both cloud storage and photo backups. Additionally, any notes application can be replaced with a more secure alternative.
Samsung phones can support a range of operating system images that can be flashed, including LineageOS. However, I am not fully aware of all the available options.
The iPhone is also a viable option
🤭
lol idk what you find amusing about that but okay
iPhone 15 (the most recent model without AI) is perfectly adequate for most people.
Please note: You must buy the “Unlocked - Works with any carrier” version of the Pixel via Googles website (or from a reputable source that ensures it is/was not carrier locked). Anything else will have a permanently locked boot loader and no way to install Graphene.
I got my Pixel 7 from T-Mobile… The OEM unlocking toggle shows up in developer settings. An internet search implies I have a unicorn.
Oh my, that sounds difficult. What does “permanently locked bootloader” mean? I was just going to buy at local phone shop…
“Permanently locked bootloader” means you can’t unlock the bootloader so you can flash a different OS. If you can’t unlock the bootloader, you can’t flash. A lot of phones are like this, like Samsung’s galaxy series. I got really fucked by Samsung with the S10 because of this. You need to buy a specific type of phone and security patch if you want to flash. I went with the Pixel bought unlocked from Google so I could use GrapheneOS. It was very easy to unlock the bootloader and then relock it back. I noticed you said the pixel does not have good reception in your country, I would look more into this before going with it if this is the case.
I usually just buy them used.
You have to look for the unlocked version though. They usually sell for a little bit more but it’s worth paying the extra.
Where can the seller check if it is the unlocked one?
Actually, if you buy a Pixel, you need to get the “google edition” version, which google sells directly. If you’re buying used, specifically search for the “google edition” version. I have a Pixel 6 Pro running Graphine OS and I love it. It’s not difficult to install.
Depends on the carrier and the specific deal. I have a Pixel 7 Pro from T-Mobile. And it was able to be unlocked after one year of service in good standing. T-Mobile has traditionally been pretty good about that, though that kind of thing often shifts once companies have major mergers. And the Sprint merger screwed them up in a lot of ways that are still working their way down to customers losing services and features.
My old phone is on its last leg, but I’m holding out for a Huawei or VIVO with HarmonyNextOS. I so want to end everything Google.
Also, I don’t think I can trust android,
Yes. Google’s framework service seems to be spyware.
so I would have to install Graphene OS or the like.
GrapheneOS does seem to be the best way to address the privacy concerns with Android. There’s also LineageOS and others.
In the case, app support would be lacking, though.
Uh…Android is the single most popular operating system in the history of operating systems. The app support is quite good.
If you mean because many apps require Google Farmwork Services, and GrapheneOS replaces it - I find that to be a largely solved problem. The GrapheneOS neutered rebuild of Google Framework Services now fools most apps into working.
It’s been years since I encountered an app that actually couldn’t run on GrapheneOS, unless the app was aggressively trying to spy on me.
The remaining issue tends to be bank and credit union apps, which aggressively spy on their users “for security”. I work around this by using my credit union’s mobile website, instead. It has all of the same features without the spying, anyway.
Just for clarity, Graphene doesn’t provide a “neutered” version of play services - the version of play services which runs is the same code as provided by Google, with the only difference being that it runs in a sandbox which only grants it the same level of permission as normal apps (which you can choose to grant or not) rather than running as effectively root on your device like it does on most android phones.
Just to let you know, GrapheneOS uses AOSP (the base Android system) and sandboxed Google Play Services, making it compatible with 90% of all Android applications. From what I’ve heard (don’t take my word for it), the apps that have the least compatibility / more breakage are banking ones.
Yeah, the problem is with the one banking app I frequent.
It does not “use” AOSP, it’s built on AOSP, like every Android device.
AOSP is like the foundation of any Android OS.
Yes, that was a poor choice of words on my part; I do apologize about that.
The banking app thing is unfortunate, but then I kinda realized that I don’t really need them anyway. I have all the features I need in browser, and text notifications set up for when I spend money.
The wallet not working REALLY sucks, but if I look on the bright side that’s one less thing Google knows about me and my spending.
While this tends to be true, the vast majority of the banking app incompatibilities are overcome with a simple app-specific toggle.
Which toggle is that and does it work with cash app?
Exploit Protection Compatibility Mode. It’s a setting that relaxes this particular security enhancement for a given app.
It’s worth knowing that NFC payments do not work with Graphene currently.
Oh I didn’t know NFC payments were not working. No workaround?
Not currently. It will require Google to’allow’ tap-to-pay on Graphene. Other NFC functions work fine.
For my use, it’s not a big deal. Tapping my card is easy enough
Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately this is a major feature for me. I just don’t carry cards anymore
That’s fair. Privacy and security generally come at some cost of convenience. Everyone has their own personal balance.
Oh shit, this is working.
The other answers are correct but I have not gotten cashapp to work. I use an old phone connected to my current phone via hotspot on the rare occasion I need cashapp.
I still recommend GrapheneOS regardless, almost everything else works with nothing more than minor tweaks. If you want something that “just works”, you’ll run into some hangups. Privacy unfortunately has a cost.
Yeah I’ve been using graphene for about a year without many issues, cash app is the only one I still can’t get working.
Dude the exploit protection compatibility mode worked. I’m logged in
Great! 👍
Rotary
🍌
Telegraph with One Time Pad
Nokia 3310
What apps do you need? Do you know that app support is lacking on GOS or just think it? I would go with Pixel8a and GOS.
In EU, I would recommend a xiaomi. Cheap, bootloader unlockable (which breaks security a little since you cant relock), but they are a gamble in terms of reliability.
I think you’re mixing privacy with security, iPhone is secure but it’s not private, it’s slighty more private than Google Android but not what would you call private.
Samsung can soft brick your phone so basically backdoor.
Google Pixel with custom ROM like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS is considered to be best in terms of privacy.
Another cheaper alternative if you don’t want to give money to Google or spend too much is Motorola G32, G42, G52 with CalyxOS but to unlock bootloader you have to make account on their website.
best choice for privacy […] “reputation” of being secure
Disentangling privacy and security, and potentially other priorities, e.g. secrecy, anonymity, etc might be important before making suggestion.
Another way to help deciding what is the best choice for you, not necessarily anybody else, is what is your threat model?
An analogy I thought recently is “Are you putting a very tough lock on your door but leaving the windows opened?” or “Are you locking your car but walking outside naked?”. The point here is not to imply that people do obvious mistakes but rather that, truly there are people who go to parades naked AND lock their cars. The concerns can be orthogonal and thus must be considered individually. For that I believe thinking about “who the enemy is” as a way to discover your threat model is interesting, namely :
Are you worried by :
- government getting your private data without your consent?
- government doing so automatically and cheaply through intermediaries e.g. platforms?
- government doing so via extremely costly individual security attacks e.g. 0-days, with a “legit” hacker manually doing it?
- small private companies?
- platforms?
- your actual neighbor?
The answer to those questions will then provide you a more limited set of options. Basically I would argue only the 3rd option ties tightly with security but that’s up to a certain extent and companies like Pegasus shows that it can also be done at scale, for profit. Still, AFAICT it wasn’t done for a random person BUT that was few years ago.
Anyway one you go through options, e.g. iPhone vs Android vs deGoogled Android vs Linux phone vs dumb phone you will see your usage itself will have to change. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it is not something most people will think about initially.
I suggest then to… try. I know it’s not the answer you want but what you are asking for, I believe, is genuine change. It is about the technology, yes, but it also is about your habits. Consequently it is a process with some success, failures, cascading changes and thus IMHO must be iterated on.
It is worth it though.
I’m currently testing lineageos on a oneplus 6t since it is dirt cheap (from 50€$) ob ebay.
So far my track record has been:
- Around 6 months of daily use
- wifi, bluetooth, lte, gsm all work without issues
- calls work 99% (same as iphone)
- headset needs usbc bc no headphone jack. Works with adapter but so far only for music
- camera works, qr codes work
- nfc works but without google services, ive found no oayment provider thay supports it
- around 16 hrs of battery life under normal use
- no ads in os (or browser, thanks to ublock)
As with all custom roms, you need to unlock the bootloader and if you dont encrypt, you should not do anything on the phone that cant ever be found by a third party, say law enforcement. I would argue that the majority of phones with a locked bootloader arent any better but apparently, if you want that extra security, graphene on a pixel seems to be much more fitting. I have heard of issues with reliability so I’ll stick with lineage.
I do develop for and did try postmarketos (actual linux) and I love it. But its absolutely not end user ready from last time i used it. If you tinker and want to help, postmarketos deserves your help but please dont use it as a daily and expect more than 80% reliability. Its for people who love linux and want it to become the real deal and who can manage their frustrations.
Pixel unlocked and install grapheneOS or lineageOS
- Pixel, and immediately install GrapheneOS.
- A Linux based phone, like the PinePhone or Purism 5, and run your Android apps (if desired) inside Waydroid.
Por que no los e/OS with a Morena phone?
e/OS is miles behind GrapheneOS and even CalyxOS. I see no reason to go that route if you’ll be much better served by any modestly modern Pixel phone and GrapheneOS.
e/OS/ is often behind on Android monthly security patches by a month or more. Insecure and not very deblobbed of proprietary blobs, especially when compared to GrapheneOS.
- Pixel, and immediately install GrapheneOS.
I am surprised Google still allows to open the bootloader, with all the bitching they have been doing towards sideloading apps, play integrity BS and making android more similar to iOS in general terms…
Googles devices have always been able to have custom ROMs, I even had a Nexus 2 long ago and that was moddable.
Yeah, but you need to concede that their efforts to block “unofficial” users have strengthened as of lately… That’s why I think they might do a Xiaomi move sooner or later.
Does GrapheneOS support inTune Company Portal and work profiles? I would love to switch but my work requires these to install teams and outlook
GrapheneOS affords you the ability to have completely isolated and distinct phone profiles, where you can install all your required work apps. They are installed separate from your main profile, kind of like second or third phone. No need for a completely different device.
GrapheneOS instantiates an improved version of this feature that Android already offers. It’s a great way to keep things separate. I do the same. Who wants to stuff their pockets or bags with more phones?
The best solution in that situation is to have a work phone and a personal phone. If your own private phone cannot install the work apps then it’s up to your employer to ensure you have the tools you need for your work.
From an IT Security perspective that is what your employer should want too as that allows them to confiscate the phone if letting you go.If your own private phone cannot install the work apps then it’s up to your employer to ensure you have the tools you need for your work.
Tell me you don’t work in a non-union job in the USA without telling me you don’t work in a non-union job in the USA.
Well, you couldn’t pay me to be in the USA
What’s this about salt? O_o
Get a separate cheap $50 prepaid phone to use for work only. Those phones don’t need a plan to function as a wifi-only device. (Don’t get the verizon ones they require a plan to get pass setup screen, their MVNOs are fine tho)
I didn’t realize that Purism phones don’t have internationally compatible modems. As someone who travels a lot, that’s unfortunately a dealbreaker.
