you fucking idiot, it’s NEVER EVER EVER coming to the US.
NEVER.
a 25% increase in cost is still MUCH more preferable to bringing all of that shit to the US. probably by orders of magnitude. can you even fathom (of course you can’t) what you would need to do to have a 100% American iphone?
let’s say you’re bringing the iphone manufacturing plant to the US. let’s even assume this move is subsidized so the new factory is going to cost only time.
the iphone isn’t put together from mere atoms. parts of it need to be manufactured first. there’s the screen, the glass, the aluminum case, several cameras, the battery, the ram, the storage, the CPU, the GPU, the receiver, accelerometer, gyroscope, etc etc… how much of that shit do you think is made in the USA?
so there’s tariffs an all of that. or to avoid them you need to make several new factories, and have other companies that provide these things also move their factories… and these factories don’t just have people create electronics by hand. you need machines. where do you think those are made? who makes them? so now you need the manufacturers of manufacturing robots to move their factories to the US.
and all these factories now employ people with much higher salaries.
all in all, a move like that would halt production for years and when it comes back every iphone would probably cost $47000.
THIS IS WHY TARIFFS NEVER WORK. In the long term tariffs actually encourage manufacturing to leave the country charging tariffs, not move manufacturing there. It’s much cheaper to pay the tariffs once, on the final product, than to pay the tariffs on every part that is required moving back and forth across an “imaginary line” (border in Trump-speak).
None of Trump’s tariff bolstering hurts Apple at all. They are a global company and can easily adjust around the asinine policies of America for a few years. Americans will get sick of paying a minimum of 25% more for EVERYTHING, while the rest of the world continues on as if nothing happened. Eventually Americans will see that the rest of the world has all the nice things and they’ve become a self imposed Soviet-era block country that has nothing and has to line up for toilet paper, and they’ll be right pissed. Until then, enjoy your delusion. 👏
tariffs could work if you’re not the US. the problem is the US doesn’t make anything.
for normal countries you could use tariffs to encourage products made inside the country. but for that to haopen:
you need the products to already be manufactured inside the country
you need to have targeted tariffs that apply specifically to those products and not blanket tariffs that would apply to each and every part of product, which would make it infinitely more expensive to manufacture inside the country than outside.
so for example if your country has a decent production of bananas but people for some reason prefer to buy imported bananas way more than homemade ones, you might have some tariffs on bananas to try and reduce waste.
for that to be effective, you can’t also have tariffs on soil, farming equipment and whatnot that might be going into your homemade potato production. otherwise you’d have homemade potatoes more expensive then imported ones.
Pretty much every country, including US, has successfully applied targeted tariffs to specific things for specific reasons. Usually you’re protecting an existing industry, but you could even build a supply chain by balancing it with targeted incentives, and bringing them together with a long term strategy to grow that specific segment.
Most of the Iphone is not Chinese, the screens are made by Samsung in Korea, and the chips are from Taiwan. Only the fiddly final assembly is done in China.
That McGee book is pretty startling. $55B USD per year for how many years to develop plant and expertise in China over the past decade or two and that’s going to be reversed how exactly?
I mean, if the US can swing it, good for them, but it’s a bit like asking parents to produce Usain Bolt immediately or pay 25% higher income tax.
Based on the numbers from Purism, it could be a lot more than 25% more expensive to manufacture everything in USA. Purims Librem 5 costs 799 $, while the made-in-America version costs 1999 $. That’s roughly a 2.5x difference. Obviously, economies of scale play a role too but let’s assume that the same factor applies to iPhones too. If so, the fanciest iPhone would cost about 4000 $.
Ts the entire supply chain that’s the problem. I keep reading stories about Apple pre-buying the entire output of factories for multiple years. For the thousands of parts in a modern phone, how do you expect entire parts industries to spring up overnight on the scale that Apple sells phones? Then entire resource and tooling chains to support those? And we’re making it even more impossible with blindly applying tariffs everywhere so you couldn’t even get established
too lazy to check but does the “made in America” version have all its parts also made in America? coz i doubt it. if not, each and every part made outside the US would also get tariffed.
They have a different supply chain for it where European manufacturers are used for some parts.
But some things are only made in China. So I think what was said is Purism source some of the raw materials for these items and have them made to a higher tolerance for reliability.
Excuse me, sir. There is no town in Mississippi called “Bumfuck”. That town is firmly within the boundaries of Iowa.
Mississippi would never stoop to the level of Iowa in having Bumfuck, Iowa. Mississippi is more elegant in its nomenclature. Thus, if you wish to make a point about a town in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi, please respect Mississippi by referring to such a town as Cousin-Hump, Mississippi. Thank you.
But we can just import some of the things we need as we build up the more valuable end of supply chains. I’m sure they’ve thought of that and there are no tariffs impeding those prerequisites, right? Right?
damn it’s been a while since I’ve watched him. it’s just all been current events lately and even though I’m keeping up with the news, i couldn’t watch him because the way his show covers things usually make things much more depressing. I’ve instead been venting here and shit. I’m gonna have to catch up though eventually, it’s still very informative.
you fucking idiot, it’s NEVER EVER EVER coming to the US.
NEVER.
a 25% increase in cost is still MUCH more preferable to bringing all of that shit to the US. probably by orders of magnitude. can you even fathom (of course you can’t) what you would need to do to have a 100% American iphone?
let’s say you’re bringing the iphone manufacturing plant to the US. let’s even assume this move is subsidized so the new factory is going to cost only time.
the iphone isn’t put together from mere atoms. parts of it need to be manufactured first. there’s the screen, the glass, the aluminum case, several cameras, the battery, the ram, the storage, the CPU, the GPU, the receiver, accelerometer, gyroscope, etc etc… how much of that shit do you think is made in the USA?
so there’s tariffs an all of that. or to avoid them you need to make several new factories, and have other companies that provide these things also move their factories… and these factories don’t just have people create electronics by hand. you need machines. where do you think those are made? who makes them? so now you need the manufacturers of manufacturing robots to move their factories to the US.
and all these factories now employ people with much higher salaries.
all in all, a move like that would halt production for years and when it comes back every iphone would probably cost $47000.
THIS IS WHY TARIFFS NEVER WORK. In the long term tariffs actually encourage manufacturing to leave the country charging tariffs, not move manufacturing there. It’s much cheaper to pay the tariffs once, on the final product, than to pay the tariffs on every part that is required moving back and forth across an “imaginary line” (border in Trump-speak).
None of Trump’s tariff bolstering hurts Apple at all. They are a global company and can easily adjust around the asinine policies of America for a few years. Americans will get sick of paying a minimum of 25% more for EVERYTHING, while the rest of the world continues on as if nothing happened. Eventually Americans will see that the rest of the world has all the nice things and they’ve become a self imposed Soviet-era block country that has nothing and has to line up for toilet paper, and they’ll be right pissed. Until then, enjoy your delusion. 👏
tariffs could work if you’re not the US. the problem is the US doesn’t make anything.
for normal countries you could use tariffs to encourage products made inside the country. but for that to haopen:
so for example if your country has a decent production of bananas but people for some reason prefer to buy imported bananas way more than homemade ones, you might have some tariffs on bananas to try and reduce waste.
for that to be effective, you can’t also have tariffs on soil, farming equipment and whatnot that might be going into your homemade potato production. otherwise you’d have homemade potatoes more expensive then imported ones.
Blind, overall tariffs can’t work anywhere.
Pretty much every country, including US, has successfully applied targeted tariffs to specific things for specific reasons. Usually you’re protecting an existing industry, but you could even build a supply chain by balancing it with targeted incentives, and bringing them together with a long term strategy to grow that specific segment.
Most of the Iphone is not Chinese, the screens are made by Samsung in Korea, and the chips are from Taiwan. Only the fiddly final assembly is done in China.
But he wants it all American. Not just non-Chinese.
this is not about china
And they’d still need to maintain their non-US factories due to the retaliatory tariffs many countries are putting on US products.
🫢
Bro really went off on him…
That McGee book is pretty startling. $55B USD per year for how many years to develop plant and expertise in China over the past decade or two and that’s going to be reversed how exactly?
I mean, if the US can swing it, good for them, but it’s a bit like asking parents to produce Usain Bolt immediately or pay 25% higher income tax.
Based on the numbers from Purism, it could be a lot more than 25% more expensive to manufacture everything in USA. Purims Librem 5 costs 799 $, while the made-in-America version costs 1999 $. That’s roughly a 2.5x difference. Obviously, economies of scale play a role too but let’s assume that the same factor applies to iPhones too. If so, the fanciest iPhone would cost about 4000 $.
Ts the entire supply chain that’s the problem. I keep reading stories about Apple pre-buying the entire output of factories for multiple years. For the thousands of parts in a modern phone, how do you expect entire parts industries to spring up overnight on the scale that Apple sells phones? Then entire resource and tooling chains to support those? And we’re making it even more impossible with blindly applying tariffs everywhere so you couldn’t even get established
too lazy to check but does the “made in America” version have all its parts also made in America? coz i doubt it. if not, each and every part made outside the US would also get tariffed.
No, the US Purism phone is not 100% American.
They have a different supply chain for it where European manufacturers are used for some parts.
But some things are only made in China. So I think what was said is Purism source some of the raw materials for these items and have them made to a higher tolerance for reliability.
It’s because Donald can’t envisage the supply chain for anything more complex than a Trump flag or a MAGA hat.
In his mind, housewives can be knocking iPhones out in Bumfuck, Mississippi.
Excuse me, sir. There is no town in Mississippi called “Bumfuck”. That town is firmly within the boundaries of Iowa.
Mississippi would never stoop to the level of Iowa in having Bumfuck, Iowa. Mississippi is more elegant in its nomenclature. Thus, if you wish to make a point about a town in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi, please respect Mississippi by referring to such a town as Cousin-Hump, Mississippi. Thank you.
I drove all over that state looking for Bumfuck and never found it. Pretty ornery bunch, too…
Fun you should bring up his merch because literally all of it is Chinese or Indian produced.
If that… I imagine they were white label products so not even those taught him anything
We don’t even have silicon availability. I don’t mean chips or printed boards, I mean processed quarts crushed into powder.
We would have to start opening strip mines and building massive furnaces and crushers and expanding railways. It’s just not feasible.
But we can just import some of the things we need as we build up the more valuable end of supply chains. I’m sure they’ve thought of that and there are no tariffs impeding those prerequisites, right? Right?
Do it.
Rest assured if they fix the rail system or will be to put us in cattle cars on a rather unfun one way trip.
Yeah fr we should, but we haven’t and we probably won’t so it’s silly to expect the manufacturing to pop up out of thin air.
John Oliver did a segment on this about a month ago, but yeah, you just nailed it.
damn it’s been a while since I’ve watched him. it’s just all been current events lately and even though I’m keeping up with the news, i couldn’t watch him because the way his show covers things usually make things much more depressing. I’ve instead been venting here and shit. I’m gonna have to catch up though eventually, it’s still very informative.
Nah I’m with you. I loved him back in the TDS days but over time his show started to get stale, to me
i don’t think it’s stale just to be clear, bad things are just happening too fast. there’s nothing TDS can do about it really.
Fair, I just stopped liking his show for some reason. I was pretty happy that Jon Stewart came back though