Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans
-
The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
-
Comparing Israel to the Nazis
-
Calls to end Zionism
-
Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let’s go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan “from the river…”
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).
To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
-
Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]
-
In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.
-
Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
-
In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
Palestinians, remember the following: you can resist your occupation but ONLY on the occupiers terms.
For the rest of us, remember the following: you can protest genocide, but ONLY on the genocider’s terms.
Wtf is feddit
I am not reading that. Can we get some more non political instances and communities?
And another instance gets blocked
…equal rights for all people, Jewish in particular.
Lol
Why does the country that gassed people think they have any moral authority to tell others right from wrong
They think it makes them uniquely qualified to judge whats a genocide and what isnt(dont laugh)
Unironically, I think one of the biggest reasons Germany supports Israel so strongly is guilt over what Nazi Germany did to the Jews. It’s the same with their hesitation to provide weapon systems to Ukraine, as their president noted, they can’t forget how many Russians died at the hands of Nazi Germany during WWII.
Removed by mod
Wenn die d*utschen so geil auf ein israelischen ethnostaat sind sollten sie gefälligst ihr eigenes Land abtreten. Stalins einziger Fehler war in Berlin innezuhalten.
Man, seeing Germany side with genocide once again was fucking not on my bingo card.
I don’t imagine things will get better under the new right-wing government either.
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
How is that siding with genocide?
Are you claiming that the German government is running that instance?
The instance behaves according to current German law.
It doesn’t have to though.
“While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany.”
The admins live in Germany, so they have to comply with their local laws.
Users can engage in regulated quantities of vague and pointless criticism of the ongoing genocide, as a treat.
They ban supporting or advocating actually stopping the genocide
Feddit.org now bans
- The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
- Comparing Israel to the Nazis
- Calls to end Zionism
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel
Missed opportunity to also drop a Phoenix Wright gif
I don’t blame the mods as they have little say in the matter but it’s sad to see never the less.
Tbh, I can understand it. There have been police raids kicking in doors of families with small children at 5 in the morning for having a Facebook post saying “from the … to the …” (I am also in Germany…). The police went through all of the families belongings and took all web-connected electronics.
The situation is really rough here in Germany.
Let me guess, nobody batted an eyelid when Netanyahu used the phrase to assert Jewish supremacist sovereignty “West of the Jordan”. Like you can say from the river to the sea as long as your extremist statement has the opposite of the proscribed polarity.
“From the river to the sea” but its the Likud.
Do you have a source about that incident? Reminds me of a dude arrested in russia for holding a blank piece of paper.
Lets not validate the intimidation tactics of the g*rman police. From the river to the sea.
They’re validating the policy of the instance on the basis of the police tactics potentially being used against them, not the tactics themselves
thereby showing the police “your tactics are effective”
Well, they are, aren’t they.
if people give in as easily as the feddit.org mods then yeah
That’s some fine nuance in there
I did not leave reddit to come to a fucked down version of political censorship. fuck you and begone. I’m blocking their instance
How do i do this from a browser?
How do I do this from an app like Boost?
Don’t know if it’ll be much help but on my app (thunder) you go to the instance, press the little (i) and then block community. It will probably be something similar on most apps.
THATS how we vote.
Oh man. Come on Lemmy.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Each of you personally has your own views on the Israel / Palestine genocide, and that’s absolutely fine.
However, very few of you risk personal criminal prosecution in support of Palestine. The people involved in hosting a lemmy instance are volunteers, who probably didn’t sign up for that kind of risk.
Also, the very nature of federation means that feddit can restrict this content on their servers confident in the knowledge that other servers can host this content in a jurisdiction that doesn’t have the same risks.
My country is literally arbitrarily detaining and deporting/imprisoning people for advocating for a free Palestine. I still go to protests.
Free Palestine, from the river to the sea!
Sure, but you realise that it’s unreasonable to expect others to take those risks though right?
I think it’s far more unreasonable to go along with a genocidal regime in the name of “following laws/orders”. Where do you draw the line on that front? Is joining the IDF and activily participating in genocide fine because it’s required by law and you can’t expect others to sacrifice anything of themselves in the name of opposing genocide?
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Man sucks to be them. Oh well, better preemptively censor all words because its illegal! Don’t stand for what’s right!
Why are you on an anarchist instance if you are for states limiting speech?
So uh, letting people like lemmy admins do what they want with their own instance is a fairly foundational concept of anarchism.
Complying and capitulating in advance with authoritarian laws to aid in covering up discussions of genocide isn’t, however.
So maybe the admins of feddit are not anarchists?
Probably not, you are on the anarchist instance, supporting obeying authoritarian laws. They aren’t.
I’m not supporting obeyance to authoritarian laws. I’m supporting other people doing whatever they like with their own resources - a fundamental principle of anarchy.
Removed by mod
Anacho capitalists aren’t anarchists
Lol.
If I was one of the admins who lived in Germany, I would just step down; not capitulating to genocidal fascists is more important than getting to run my own little digital fiefdom.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
What’s next? Put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers firing upon unarmed people?
Also, the genocide is immoral, inhumane, and needs to stop. I don’t know any other personal view that can be “absolutely fine”
Are you saying that because you genuinely believe your statement isn’t an instance of the slippery slope fallacy, or because you want to insult me?
Well, I guess you could put yourself in the shoes of soldiers if that floats your boat but it’s obviously not analogous to lemmy admins.
As I said, foregoing the personal risk doesn’t harm Palestinians in any way. You’re free to bemoan genocide on pretty much any other instance.
Feddit.Org has no business hosting pan EU subs. German law is designed to prevent proepr discussion on the topic and bootlickers love it like that
It’s wild how lies and propaganda spread in real time.
While the servers of feddit.org [http://feddit.org/] are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. [emphasis added]
In other words, the admins and mods can be held criminally liable for ‘anti-semitic’ speech on feddit.org because of where the admins and mods live.
If someone that lived in an area where child pornography was legal, and they posted child porn on feddit.org, the mods/admins would have the same legal obligation to remove that content. You can’t hide behind claiming that the servers are in another jurisdiction, when you control them.
You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way the law goes in Germany. It doesn’t even mean that the mods and admins agree with the law, but they can’t necessarily say what their real feelings are, because that could be taken as anti-semitism as well.
EDIT: This is why freedom of speech is important, y’all.
Did you really just uses CSAM for this analogy?!
Y’all are fucking unhinged 🤡
Read the comments and see who’s catching bans. It’s one thing to be made to comply by force, it’s another to be celebrating that you’re now gonna be censoring anti Zionists
So they’re basically declaring themselves a fascist instance. I mean calling for end of Zionism is calling for an end of a fascist ideal, therefore that instance is declaring itself a fascist organization. Simple. Yeah no one should be Federated with this place.
