Now the question is if people will be stupid enough to replace all the freedoms their desktop OS still gives them with the vendor controlled shit show that is mobile OS.
That ship has sailed. Hence this being called a “post-PC era”.
If you sit in a room and you can see the bars, you know you are trapped, if you sit in a room, but you cant see the bars, you are going to think you are free
I’m not an android user, but doesn’t it let you do whatever you want? What things can’t a person do using Android as a desktop that a windows or mac user can do?
Android is very much designed with every application in its own little silo that needs the permission of the OS vendor or something off-device (like a cloud service both apps access) to communicate with each other. This means, among other things, a very limited ability to do software development on the device and run your own applications, a very limited ability to automate applications, no chaining of workflows (e.g. read some sensor in one app, process the data in another, graph it in a third). You also generally don’t have administrator/root access on the device and if you do get around that restriction a lot of the applications for things like banks will refuse to work. You can’t properly control which data your device collects and where it sends it. Your ability to debug the behavior of your own applications and device is severely limited.
Thanks for the heads up. This is good to know.
I typically use my work computer for just zoom meetings. I could see my possibly being able to replace my work computer with this.
Of course I’d still keep Linux on my personal laptop.
i‘m hyped for a graphene desktop mode. that wouldn’t be a replacement for my laptop/ desktop computers but still very much sick. and if i can run a terminal with neovim and tmux or ssh into other machines it would be a dope backup/ micro setup. probably not very useful, but fun i think
I have a dying laptop and am very much interested in replacing it with my phone + Nexdock (or similar)
100% they will and want this. I’m a power user and even I see this as the future.
Have you worked in a non-tech field with people? Modern OSs and office apps are not intuitive to them. Hell, a lot have problems with just their phones as is.
I suppose you mean the same effect I have noticed with our younger apprentices who know very little about the way computers work anymore since they grew up with phones only, they don’t even know what a file system is any more.
Some older, some younger, yeah.
Narrator: They did.
My guess is that people who would use DEX is also people who are satisfied with ChromeOS. Which is just as closed down.
Hopefully, when Android does this, they will be under same gatekeeper restrictions in the EU as Windows.
I use DEX (not directly to the monitor, but the desktop app) to have easier access to my personal Firefox and messenger apps when I’m at work. I don’t want to run any of my personal stuff on the work laptop (not even in a VM) and I hate typing on the phone’s tiny touch keyboard, so DEX is a great alternative.
Dude I tired DEX once, I saw I couldn’t rotate the monitor or even find some type of settings and I never tried it again.
Unless you invested a lot of money and time, you are certainly already running an OS with a lot of BLOBs at the most important parts (WIFI driver, etc).
Given AOSP and a decent smartphone, I am basically at exactly the same level I am with running Linux on my desktop. Actually, the smartphone could be better, if it is a Pixel, because at least I’ll have 100% hardware support. … and again, AFAIK one will be able to run Debian in a virtual environment.
Long story short: I would never buy hardware with vendor lock in, but middle to high class Android smartphones are actually standardized hardware which run excellent with Linux. Total win for me.
The times when you couldn’t get PCs with 100% hardware support on Linux were 15+ years ago. You can still find the occasional one today that doesn’t have it but it is not hard to get 100% support.
… I do not want to argue with you and Linux hardware support certainly is much better than decades ago (I was there, I know :-P) … but even my hardware, which was bought with Linux support in mind, I have several problems… one of my laptops WIFI card has problems with Linux sleep mode, one of my Lenovo machines has audio trouble with the microphone after being used for longer online calls and the list goes on. I hope that I am just very unlucky with my hardware picks, but when you have known hardware components in a mass produced device like Google Pixel, I hope we get Apple level support of hardware.
Well, obviously there are still bugs in hardware drivers on Linux, the point was more that those bugs are not any more common than on any other OS and that Linux probably supports more hardware than some of the Windows operating system versions now.
Apple level of hardware support is hard for Linux because Apple provides that by limiting supported hardware to a tiny, tiny subset of available hardware they produce themselves.
What freedoms are you referring to?
A beta build of Android 16 contains an early version of Google’s new Android Desktop Mode that, in the future, could let users simply plug their smartphone into a monitor and use it like a laptop or desktop computer.
It seems this is an instance where the headline tells the full story
That’s cool and everything, yet we have an itsy-bitsy tiny problem: iirc, there are like 3.5 vendors that have opted into dp alt mode support, and each one I know of kinda sucks. I suppose it might be possible to simply enable it in software by changing the devicetree on usb3 devices or something if the port the vendor decided to route is the one multiplexed with dp, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Explain the DP alt mode
That lets a USB C port function as a DisplayPort output so you can connect the phone to a monitor without using some laggy wireless streaming crap.
I thought that all USB-C phones had that feature
Samsungs mostly, also shift and a few older models. Although, some have a crutch called displaylink, which basically encapsulates video signal over USB in software, while dp alt mode kinda* connects those same wires to the displayport output of the SoC (which is better due to having little to no overhead as well as ~no need for specialized overcomplicated hardware).
Also, some of the older models, like my beloved oneplus 6, don’t even support USB 3, so dp alt mode is physically impossible for those.
* iirc, on qualcomms at least the SoC itself multiplexes USB 3 with dp (as in, it can be configured to output usb3 or dp on the same data lines), but I’m not sure how the switching itself is triggered, so there may or may not be a need to add another IC that’ll handle communications over CC lines and tell the SoC when to use which. I personally suppose the SoCs should be able to handle everything themselves, tho.
Fairphones support it :) I actually tested this out earlier (the initial screen mirroring implementation that was added in android 15) and it worked well. USB hub functionality works too with mouse and keyboard being plugged into the screen.
Cool. Samsung did this a decade ago though.
Everyone is abandoning Android with a passion thanks to Google’s bullshit.
Ubuntu did this a decade ago too
But yeah. Fuck Google
Everyone is abandoning Android
What do you mean?
The Motorola Atrix 4G had a Desktop Mode (Webtop was its name and it was Ubuntu based) in 2011 before Samsung. They even released a cradle dock, that you could connect to a tv or monitor, and a laptop dock for it and the source code on Sourceforge (my guess is to be GPL compliant).
I got that phone specifically for the desktop mode. It had a full blown Firefox browser installed and you could run your apps along side it.
I was blown away and thought, “This is the future for computers” but I was incredibly wrong. After the short honeymoon period i found it to be sluggish and clunky when using an android app. The hardware although phenomenal for a phone couldn’t provide an optimal experience for a desktop.
Samsung did this a decade ago though.
Cool. But then you have to buy and deal with a Samsung.
And it’s only on their premium phones.
Cool. Now let me legally record my phone calls without rooting my phone.
For users with a Samsung Flagship phone, if you have the “One UI 7” update, they just recently added this feature.
You used be able to run Linux apps too, but they pulled it all back because they are only good at creating bloatware.
Do you have such a phone? What CSC does it have?
I currently have and use a Samsung Galaxy S24+. Not sure what you mean by CSC.
There is a default voice recorder app included with the phone which can be used for meetings or other recordings. But when I make a phone call there is an extra button on screen. When clicking the button it informs the caller that the call is being recorded for legal reasons. Any recording that goes thru that app is able to be transcribed.
https://itechhacks.com/find-your-samsung-galaxy-csc-region-code/
You probably happen to have one of the CSCs that has native call recording enabled.
Everyone else needs to either root their phone or change the CSC somehow.
I’m not sure if the feature is region locked or not. I didn’t have to worry about any of that. This feature is brand new with the One UI 7 update.
There is an app called CubeACR which does exactly that on unrooted devices.
I very much doubt that, since Google removed the call recording APIs. But if someone can tell how it would work on recent Android, I would love being proven wrong.
I mean it works on my device which is on Android 15. Not sure how exactly it works though. Just give it a shot and see for yourself?
- Did you install CubeACR from the Play store, or somewhere else?
- Did you install it on an earlier Android version, and then upgrade?
- What device is this, if you don’t mind sharing?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.catalinagroup.callrecorder
Nowadays you don’t even need to root your phone; certains custom roms do that by default
And to install a custom ROM you need to unlock your boot loader and root it anyways. Do custom roms even come with a non-root option? I haven’t done it in years.
You don’t have to root to install custom ROM
You… Dont need to root your device to install a custom rom? You can very well unlock your device, flash a custom rom, and use it unrooted. Nowadays quite a lot of custom rom come with a kernel prepatched for KSU, but that’s obviously not a requirement…
Bruh, last device I rooted and unlocked was in like 2015. Lost the need to do it.
Back then though, I’d never heard of a custom ROM that doesn’t have root enabled by default. Is that where we are at now?
Grapheneos doesn’t require root before install or allow root after install
OneUI 7.0.
And one UI 6.0 and one UI 5.0. My Samsung phones have done this for as long as I can remember
Anything on Android 11 and below, at least, before the regulations were put in effect to take the feature from newer releases
Built-in to GrapheneOS for a while now.
Where/how?
There’s a button on the call screen.
Screenshot? I don’t seem to have that.
https://grapheneos.org/features#other-features
Call recording functionality within the Dialer app using modern Android storage with recordings stored in Recordings/Call Recordings and no restrictions based on region or special cases like playing a recording tone (users are still responsible for complying with their local laws).
Says there’s no region block, so not sure why it wouldn’t be there for you.
Edit: the button only shows up when a call connects & it’s on the bottom right.
Except it’s not automatic
I mean you still gotta press the recording button to record. You want it to auto record every phone call?
Yes, that’s how I used to have mine set up. I used to be able to make whitelist for numbers not to record, but otherwise it would just do it automatically for every call. Too many businesses, people, and organizations trying to pull sketchy things. I’ve literally played these recordings back to companies over the phone when they tried to claim they said something different. They record for quality assurance. I record to avoid their scam tactics.
You want it to auto record every phone call?
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I want to love Graphene. I really do. But Jesus fucking christ, every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts over blatant refusal to implement a feature in any sensible way. System-wide hosts-based adblocking (DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution) and automatic call recording should be basic-ass features on a custom ROM of this caliber.
> System-wide hosts-based adblocking
That’s not a good way to do it.
> DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution
You don’t need to use a DNS service or VPN service to filter remotely. You can filter locally via the VPN service feature, including while using a VPN if you want.
You should follow our advice and do it with an app like RethinkDNS providing support for both local filtering and optionally using WireGuard VPNs at the same time including chained VPNs.
Why do you want to have a slow, legacy and hard to debug implementation of domain-based filtering instead of managing it with an app?
Domain-based filtering is also very limited in what it can since it’s trivially bypassed by apps or web sites using IPs or doing their own DNS resolution, which is fairly widely adopted. For example, WhatsApp will still work with the domains blocked. In practice, you’ll also only be filtering domains not used for useful functionality.
Thank you for proving my point:
every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts
Dont get me wrong, I think you guys make a great ROM. However, no advice was requested here, yet you tagged me in multiple consecutive comments chock full of unsolicited advice. Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers. How do I know that this service, which I have literally never heard of in my 14 years of fucking with Android devices and ROMs and adblockers until maybe 6 months ago, isn’t just a honeypot? Or will even exist after Trump is done raping the USA? I see they use DNS over HTTPS, but I defer to my previous (rhetorical) question.
I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option. But as others have said, this is your guys’ project and you’re free to implement it how you see fit. And it is a solid ROM. But apparently it’s not for me.
GrapheneOS does add call recording to our fork of AOSP Dialer. Unlike most alternate operating systems including LineageOS, we don’t limit the regions where it’s available. The fact that users are choosing to use it for specific calls means users are taking responsibility for the legality of recording that specific call and informing the other person of it. Automatic call recording would need more complexity to make it practical for people to comply with recording laws.
Honestly I’d just suggest telling your ex-wife that it’s email only from now on.
GrapheneOS is security-first and they’re very clear about this. Them adhering to their principles even if it means a bit more inconvenience isn’t “sniffing their own farts”.
If it isn’t for you, that’s fine. It was designed for joirnlists, whistleblowers and other people who could be targeted. And the team refusing to add stuff to protect them is absolutely legit.
I would like to appeal to you to be nicer to teams of foss-software. They could probably make a lot more money if they worked for a corporation. They could charge money for licences for grapheneos. But they don’t. They work on it and make it available for everyone simply from the goodness of their hearts.
It is their project, not ours. we aren’t entitled to anything. If we make demands and/or throw fits, we will simply demoralize them and cause them to quit developement, leaving us all as losers, without such a great project.
So instead of being negative and critizising them, I’d be happy if we could say thank you to @grapheneos@grapheneos.social . because their heartblood makes grapheneos what it is today and my phone a lot better.
Nowhere did I criticize the work they put into their ROM, nor demand that they add features (Volte when sir?). I have looked into modifying a stock ROM for my own tastes, and frankly, I simply don’t have the skills for that kind of thing. I absolutely respect the work that goes into FOSS projects and products, and donate when I am able.
That said, it’s entirely possible to both recognize the effort that goes to creating a custom ROM of this caliber, and also point out that the Graphene devs are, in fact, pompous assholes about it. Especially whenever someone brings up rooting it (and yes, I am aware of the security implications).
You want it to auto record every phone call?
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
I’m also in a one-party consent country, and I’ve found it sometimes useful to get back to some calls just to find out some details, such as agreed date/time or some detail of a discussion I had with my mother. I would enjoy an automatic text translation to be stored alongside them.
I miss the feature now that I have Pixel 8.
I used syncthing to sync them to PC. Size-wise I have so few phone calls (work meetings excluded, which they are as they are over Slack/Teams) that all of them will fit most any modern phone easily.
Again, thanks for the insight!
Did a little searching and it seems you could script this to transcribe your calls
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
Not weird at all! I did my homework before implementing it. I’m in a single-party consent state (Utah), and so is my ex-wife (Idaho). No consent required as long as one party (I.e. me) is informed.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
They’re recorded in
.opusformat, so a 5 minute call, for example, is barely 500 kilobytes. And yes I have reviewed many of them, especially during my divorce some years back. They are stored on my phone which 1) syncs to my NAS via Syncthing and 2) uploads to Google Drive tied to a Workspace account that I pay for.I don’t hide the fact that I record my calls, everyone who knows me knows this fact, including my wife (I am happily remarried). I also back up my texts, going back almost a decade now, which came in handy during the divorce.
@lka1988
Which customrom and dnsblocking are you using?
CalyxOS also has it (though they block it where it’s illegal).
Two problems:
- No automatic call recording.
- Banking apps don’t work on GtapheneOS thanks to Play Integrity APIs, so you probably need to root to get them to work.
If you need to root anyway, might as well use BCR.
Fair enough if those are deal breakers for anyone; just letting people know. Automatic would be nice, but couldn’t care less about banking apps personally.
Microsoft tried the same idea about 10 years ago with Continuum, even including a hardware dongle: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Continuum https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/continuum-phone
Canonical had something similar, too, back in the days with their Ubuntu Touch and named it Convergence: https://www.linux.com/news/first-ubuntu-touch-tablet-brings-convergence-last/
do you think I am masochist or what, better give me gnu/linux on mobile ;)
- postmarketOS for older mainstream phones
- Librem 5
- PinePhone and PinePhone Pro
- FuriLabs FLX1
- Liberux Nexx (upcoming)
If you want deskktop version of Firefox or Chromium on your phone, you can get them using Termux. But yeah they will be slow.
I swear they’ve been writing the same article for a year.
Much longer than that. But that’s probably because Google keeps picking it up and then dropping it again.
And they chose to highlight as a feature making it like a pC, “you also get Windows PC–like abilities such as snapping windows to the left and right of the screen.”
Reminds me of just a few months ago when they sold the Samsung Galaxy S20-something using all the features that come with either Google Gemini 1.5-2.0 or Android 15. All features that my phone has. Nothing unique but the homegrown app store nobody likes
Didn’t canonical try this years ago?
I thought it was part of their justification for Mir like a decade ago.
Can we bring back PalmTops ?
Hopefully this means I can have a GraphineOS laptop (whenever google makes a new Pixel Laptop)
I used to think the idea of a phone that is also my desktop would be really cool. But then I got to thinking just how locked down iOS and to a lesser extent Android are compared to Linux/Windows/MacOS, and decided I wouldn’t use my Pixel as a replacement for my desktop or laptop even if the feature was there.
To the best of my knowledge they give you a full Debian Linux in a container. Combine this with AOSP, and IMHO this is totally cool. Especially since my Netbook has worse specs than my current smartphone! :-)
If networking and GUI gets added then we’re talking
I really like using Dex on my work laptop so I don’t have to mess with logging into personal accounts on them. Too bad Samsung is removing this specific version of Dex in One UI 7.
On a serious note, what can’t you do with your Pixel? The only issues I’ve had is I can’t access networking functions. Beyond that, not much limits in most things I do. And with Android 16 allowing for installing Linux apps (not just terminal ones, but full graphical ones like VS Code, Blender 3D, etc), there is little I can’t see it not being able to do. (No Wireshark though, but that’s networking, the only painful point for me).
TLDR: I don’t like the philosophy behind how Android and iOS devices are created and managed by their OEMs nearly enough to give them near total control over what I can do today or in the future with my primary computing platforms.
Its not a specific thing I can’t do that I want to do that stops me from liking it.
Its that it is a specific OS image bound to a specific hardware model that is very limited in what options or upgrades or changes are available to me.
With a Framework laptop (or most other generic models) or a generic ATX desktop tower I can replace whatever internal component if need be and then put whatever base OS on it, just because I want to do that.
With a Pixel, or Galaxy, or iPhone it runs the OS it came with and is blessed by the OEM on the hardware they compiled it to run on. Unless I am willing to accept large inconveniences in functionality and usability.
If I replace my desktop/laptop with a Pixel running Debian for desktop mode, now Google has vastly more control over what my desktop experience is going to be via their control of the hardware and host OS layer than they do today. If they decide they don’t want something being done in that Debian container in the future for some reason, then they can stop me from doing it with little recourse for me as a user.
Yes and no. I absolutely understand what you mean. And I was the same.
But then my tech-autism caused me to dig into cybersecurity and now I actually disagree with you.
I.E. have I completely stopped doing any type of banking on a device that isn’t running a completely locked down iOS or Android.
It is not a security thing to me. It is a “I want to do what I want to do with the things I paid for” thing.
I know full well something so locked down is technically more secure, but using those platforms as my primary devices would cause a lose of device flexibility I have no interest in taking part in for the use cases of a desktop or laptop.
Those platforms have their place, just like my video game consoles. But I am not interested in making anything I consider important contingent on something that is more at the whims of the company that made it than me.
Sweet that it’s all of android now. I’ve had it on my note 20 ultra for the past 5 years.
My old note9 did it too. Handy in a pinch and great when I forget my laptop but still wanted to pretend to work at work
