If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?
I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
It greatly simplifies life from a legal standpoint. It’s basically like creating a tiny corporation of two people that can act as a single legal entity. If you’re married it simplifies buying a house together, inheritance, medical decisions, etc. As others have pointed out, these are important especially when your partner’s family don’t approve of you or the relationship especially for LGBT people.
I am going to break the mold though and say the actual ceremony is important too. Declaring your intention to stay together for life in front of your friends and family changes things. It adds a level of security and finality to the relationship- you have to put your money where your mouth is on the relationship. Although people frequently do it, I don’t know how someone can go through the wedding process without reflecting on how big of a deal it is to stand up in front of so many of your friends and family and declare your intention to stay together forever, even without the religious ritual aspect of it. I wouldn’t want to have kids with someone without having this commitment, for example. Ultimately even though marriage is a social construct, I think it’s still a useful one even in a world where women are no longer considered property of men.
My defacto partner and I have been together for 12 years. We’ve been trying to have kids for 6 years or so and got lucky with twins 2 years ago.
Being married wouldn’t strengthen our bond or commitment in any way.
It’s a shame my partner doesn’t have the same surname as our kids. I’ve been meaning to ask her how she feels about it.
I wasn’t married when I had my child. Chose to hyphenate. I’m unsure how I feel for your wife if this topic didn’t come up two years ago, goodness
I’m not quite sure what you mean to imply.
The topic of marriage did come up 6 years ago when we decided to have kids. At that time we decided it didn’t have much meaning for us.
We didn’t really think about her family name at that time.
When the kids were born she was emphatic that they should have my family name. She actually has a family name from a previous marriage, which wouldn’t be appropriate for our kids, and she’s estranged from her actual family so didn’t want her maiden name.
Since the kids have been born this has been in the back of my mind and I’ve been meaning to address it, I assume it’s on her mind too.
Honestly, just attending to all the things that need to be done in the last 2 years has been very challenging. This just hasn’t been a priority.
Also for context, de facto relationships have legal standing in Australia. So the law treats us as though we were married. Our situation is not uncommon.
I mentioned it to my sisters who suggested she could just use my family name as an alias, or just change her name to our family name, or we could elope. If she wanted to hyphenate that would be up to her of course but knowing her as I do I doubt she will want to.
The answer will likely depend on the place in the world and even on the cultural background of individuals getting married. I’ll just share my experience.
We got married out of convenience. While it’s technically possible to arrange the bulk of the legal stuff with various contracts, it is just easier to use the “default contract” that already covers the most common use case. Some legal arrangements, for example cuts to inheritance tax or the right to remain silent when asked about your spouse in legal proceedings, are only available for “real” marriages.
Once we decided to have children we looked into the various arrangements needed to make that work and quickly found out that marriage is the easiest way to sort everything out. In our day to day life nothing really changed. In legal terms quite a lot is now different.
By the way, as others have mentioned, getting married isn’t expensive. All we paid was the administrative fee which was something like 50 Euros.
It doesn’t have to cost a lot to officiate a marriage if you have 2 witnesses and use the registry office.
L in addition to protecting your land from invaders It’s very important when it comes to having kids. If you are married it’s easy
As a male, none.
Have been helping people in family court for twenty years. The shift had been catastrophic for marriage from a male risk/reward.
Socially it’s an excuse to party with everyone you love.
Legally it’s only worth it if you have kids, plan to migrate countries, or have shitty immediate family among other things. But if you’re just in a long term relationship with your finances otherwise separated, no kids or end of life concerns, then it can be somewhat detrimental as you’re just inviting the state in to meddle with your life.
This is a shallow and very “I just think about the next few hours” view…
First of all, there are a lot more legal protections to married couples even if no kids are involved. Second, I guess you know when you are going to die so you can be certain there won’t be any end of life concerns, you are certainly immune to accidents, right? But also, you don’t have to be about to die to want your fiance to be allowed in the hospital room with you (which they won’t be if you are unable to provide approval and they are not legally your partner)
The “state” does not meddle in married life either… this is a rednecky thing to say… unless of course you are referring to treating your partner like crap or attempting to deny them any protection they are legally entitled to
Yeah i was half awake, a bit harsh ig.
Maybe a better formed argument is that getting into a marriage legally is way too easy compared to the legal process of leaving one. Even if you have all your things in order and everything is completely amicable the dissolution can be a a very drawn out process, especially if you can’t be present in the state you were married in.
The part about being in a hospital, only applies if the partner is not conscious, otherwise they can consent. Some other counties have another method for this where if you’ve simply lived together long enough those sorts of protections exist. So yeah you have a fair argument in the US. Is it a valid reason for legally formalizing your marriage? That’s up to you and your partner to decide.
I think my major annoyance is that people put emotional value into the legal matter of marriage as though law and the state had some interpersonal value.
a bit harsh ig.
Likely, sorry about that
Maybe a better formed argument is that getting into a marriage legally is way too easy compared to the legal process of leaving one.
This is a completely different point than your original one though. And, while somewhat true, the countries that have strong marriage protections will not save you from a separation even if there is no marriage (more on this below)
The part about being in a hospital, only applies if the partner is not conscious
Or impaired in multiple other ways… but yes, the not conscious part if key because you could be in a medically induced comma to spare you the pain and someone may need to advocate for you in case a decision needs to be made. If you just had minor issues, there would be no problem but we are fending off the worst scenarios, no need for legal protection for minor stuff
Some other counties have another method for this where if you’ve simply lived together long enough those sorts of protections exist.
Correct and those same laws are the ones that basically have you automatically declared “common law” (or whatever preferred term) which makes a separation almost as hard as a divorce (coming back to point 2 above)
Is it a valid reason for legally formalizing your marriage? That’s up to you and your partner to decide.
At the end of the day, yes of course it is for the couple to decide… I just want to make it clear that you do not normally get the same level of protection by just having a will or a power of attorney (or it would be actually worse in those cases) and that people should consider this WAY more than “I don’t need a paper to say I love someone”, that is not what legal marriage is about
A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.
Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.
All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don’t think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.
So it’s possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it’ll work out.
Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It’s a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don’t feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.
I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.
This exactly. It’s an easily recognizable legal shortcut to a bunch of systems, rules and privileges that apply to the situation of two people wanting to live their lives together. Doesn’t have to cost much, if anything, and doesn’t have to have anything at all to do with religion or rituals. Can be just two people showing up at the town hall if you want it to be.
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Getting married doesn’t have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.
If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it’s just a lot simpler to have kids. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it’s just so much more of a hassle to not be married.
You’re right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that’s a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.
Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There’s nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.
Neither my wife nor I wanted kids but we still got married. The legal aspects you touch on are pretty darned important even without kids in the picture. Health/medical reasons are another huge one. We have a friend who lived with her partner for decades, but never got married. When he fell ill and was hospitalized it was virtually impossible for her to make any decisions, tell the doctors what his wishes were, etc. All because they weren’t legally married.
I want someone to marry me again someday. I want someone to stand in front of my friends and family and profess their love and devotion.
I gave up on that dream a couple of years ago.
My grandfather died in the 80s, 20 years later my grandma got a boyfriend, a widower similar to her age, so both in their mid 70s. She once said that she thought she would be alone for the rest of her life and never thought she would be so in love again.
They never married but had 15 beautiful years with each other. What I’m saying is that it’s never too late to find happiness, no matter what that might entail.
That’s really nice to hear, but I’m tired of waiting to find someone that cares for me as more than just a friend. I recognize that I likely will never find that.
Getting legally married is intended to protect the couple under certain circumstances as you suggest. You could attempt to perform the same with other legal means but it would be harder and costlier; like you deciding not buying a car but putting one together yourself.
The notion people get legally married out of love or worse that “a paper does not say I can love a person” seem to just have a 7 year old notion of what marriage is
Depending on state, healthcare applies to spouses but may not for long term partners. You can’t do that with a will or trust
You also get tax benefits
Getting married should only be expensive if you want it to be, although too many people fall for the peer pressure.
- For me I was overwhelmingly in love, ready to declare it to the world and willing to pay anything for the one big party of my life. That may not have entirely worked out, but was how I felt at the time
- My best friend just got married for reasonable cost. Still had a big party, but it was 40 people in a park, and we went to a restaurant after.
- Another friend got married inexpensively, maybe. Was it the $100 actual cost, or do you count the week in Vegas?
Jus an fyi, getting married costs basically nothing unless you have a wedding. It literally costs like $55 for the certificate at the court. You don’t have to have a wedding that costs $50K. I know multiple people who literally just had some people over and got pizzas.
Some of my friends got married, and it was just people dressing nicely and meeting at our favourite restaurant to eat a bunch of delicious food. It was awesome.
It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).
In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It’s both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I’m not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).
That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called “Tenants in Common” because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can’t sell half a house so that protects you. They’re aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim “deliberate deprivation” and revert you back to joint owners.
That’s just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That’s really helpful! :)
Kind of a niche answer, honestly me and my wife of 20+ years might still be “living in sin” if it wasn’t for her decision to join the military, in order for me to move with her to her home base, we had to be married. It allowed me to visit Alaska which was a great adventure, though I am glad that she is out and we are living normal lives since.
