This is probably the most simplistic, and dumb take you could have posted without actually simping for Trump.
Your on .ml and the the post was from vegantheoryclub… so tankies all around and tons of lies and hypocrisy.
I just saw that it was memes. I thought I had the .ml instance blovked.
Complains about things being simplistic, proceeds to judge things based on what instance they’re from
There’s a highly upvoted comment where a dude says Nixon created the EPA.
Nixon: Who vetoed the Clean Water Act twice, just happened to be president when a democratic Congress overrode his veto to create the EPA, and yet, .ml drinks the lie down. That’s why people judge the instance.
Ah, so you only dislike it when other people are simplistic.
How is lying simplistic?
Oh, so you were lying when you complained about .ml being simplistic?
Democrats spent their entire life understanding what FPTP is and their entire political understanding hangs on explaining it to other people any time Democrats get criticized.
I mean… I’m not in love with the idea of “blocking movement to the left”, but I sure as fuck would take that over the freespin to the right we are on for now. Like, I get that Dem’s need to step their game way the fuck up because you don’t win elections by being the “second worst choice”… but still. If we didn’t want accelerated fascism…
You didn’t have a choice, the economic system in the US concentrates power in the hand of people with money and they are fascists. If it wasn’t 2024 it would be 2028 after 4 years of congressional stalling. The path the US is on is predetermined, they don’t have to fix every election to the vote, they fix a percentage of them over the course of decades to push the policy to the right.
You’re not wrong. But if I had cancer, and a doctor gave me a way to delay the inevitable, I would take it. Maybe it can’t be fixed, maybe it’s totally fubar. But I don’t have it in me to just give up and willingly let people suffer without a fight.
But I don’t have it in me to just give up and willingly let people suffer without a fight.
Unless those people are Palestinian, then fuck 'em.
I get why you are pissed off, and have every right to be. How both parties of the American government have treated the Palestinian genocide is beyond reprehensible, immoral, inhumane, and frankly disgusting. And that is only a small slice of the harm caused by the US across the globe. All of which I condemn wholeheartedly.
But Trump is actively making it harder for anyone to help slow, stop, or otherwise prevent additional unnecessary death and suffering. So while yes, the genocide would have continued under the Dems, there may yet have been innocent lives that could have been saved that will now be lost. When faced with saving 1 out of a 100, or 0, I believe that 1 life is worth saving. I even have the audacity to hope we could have saved more than just 1 out of 100.
I don’t intend to give up on anyone, but I also have to accept that my power is limited. So doing what I can to prevent the genocide from accelerating, in the hopes that it gives even one more child a chance to escape, is worth it to me. Maybe it isn’t the best strategy, but it is the best I could do with my time and ability to affect change to the best of my knowledge. I certainly would have preferred if the US electorate had united to solve these problems long ago, and we could have used our collective force for unambiguous good, but when even my parents won’t listen to me on the changes I think the country needs to make, steering the entire country in the right direction is beyond me at this point. Despite that fact, I still can’t just bury my head in the sand and say “sorry Palestinian child, I could have done everything in my power, kicking and screaming, to give you a snowballs chance in hell. But instead I felt it was more important to give up to the feelings of despair”.
I get that a lot of folks, yourself included I assume(?), believe that abstaining from voting or voting 3rd party would send a strong message that we will not be complicit in the countries support of a genocidal regime. And I can see why that would be your strategy, maybe in 100+ years that kind of strategy would actually amount to more saved lives, I can’t say for sure. But what I do know is that in the short term, our collective inability to keep Trump out of office has made many things worse for many people, minority groups most of all, and has made sure that the Palestinian genocide has only accelerated with the enthusiastic support of the US government under the Trump administration.
But with all that said, I hope that you haven’t given up either, and are with me in doing the best you can to help anyone you can to the best of your abilities.
and has made sure that the Palestinian genocide has only accelerated with the enthusiastic support of the US government under the Trump administration.
No, he hasn’t. The genocide was every bit as “accelerated” and the supporting of the US government every bit as enthusiastic under the Democrats, and you only think otherwise because liberals were engaging in mass genocide denial and apologia when it was their team doing it. In this sense, Trump has been better for Palestine, because at least now liberals are actually acknowledging what’s happening.
This also torpedoes the “lesser evil” argument for me, because how can I trust people to vote lesser evil when they won’t be honest with themselves about the evil the democrats were doing?
Up until the moment we have enough confirmed support for a progressive movement, status quo is a hell of a lot better than accelerated fascism; if only to buy more time to build the aforementioned progressive support. I’m all for actual leftward movement, but gambling on unconfirmed support is stupid. Even the liberals understand that, in their sports-team monkey brain.
The left has no plan sufficient to deal with this. I hear vague rumblings about strikes and revolutions and the power of the working class united, but the working class isn’t united yet. There is no organized, validated plan to effect that revolution. There’s no leftist Project 2025. That’s a natural consequence of the commendable independence of leftists, but it has the unfortunate consequence of being tactically untenable. The right uniform under the banner of their dictator, the left squabbles about trivialities.
It’s not that I wish it to be so; I would vastly prefer the left to have a functional plan to secure power. But it is the reality; I see neither such a lab, nor the necessary organization to implement such a plan. That’s why we vote lesser evil. We strive for the stationary phase of the ratchet to avoid the freewheeling phase, because we don’t yet have the organized strength to break the pawl from its housing.
Once we have that organized strength, and not sooner, we can break the pawl. Sooner, and the ratchet spins freely to the right.
And how’s that working out for you?
A bunch of shortsighted cosplayers with no sense of praxis or political literacy protested the do-nothing Dems and we got the freewheeling fascism MAGAs. How’s that working out for you? How’s the glorious revolution coming?
So it’s not working then?
But I assume you’re going to keep doing it anyway. All while continuing to accuse other people of being short sited with no sense of praxis.
Flagrant hypocrisy! This was your plan, not mine. How’s it working? Did a third party win? Did we end the genocide in Gaza yet? Don’t equate your plan’s failure with our recognition that it failed. You gambled, and this is what we get. Own it, maybe learn something about implementation.
Yup, looks like I was correct; you are going to keep doing it anyway, while desperately projecting your own failure onto others.
Keep up the “I’m rubber you’re glue” act buddy, it’s age appropriate. I wanted Trump to lose, you wanted Harris to lose. You got your wish, this is on you. Or keep blaming everyone else who tried to warn you that it was a stupid idea, how dare they point out the glaring flaws in your strategy. Let’s see if that makes a leftist plan materialize.
Blocking movement to the left is why you’re left with a rightward trend. Not just because the right itself “moves right” but because Dems’ political nature breeds false consciousness and confused disillusionment. Dems promise basic things like a student debt jubilee and then do a little weak attempt at it. So then people leave them behind. Even worse, Dems help create the degrading conditions that provokes an anti-liberal backlash (liberalism being the dominant ideology of capitalism, not just US Dems), and then Dems work their hardest to fight the associated leftward shift. But not the right: their radicals are useful for crushing that new left, as the left is anticapitalist.
Most importantly, the bourgeoisie electoral system provides an illusion of control. You don’t actually choose the lesset evil. You just throw in a vote for candidates preselected for you by capital and the party (a party in which you have no say) who will never actually be able to fight the right or adopt anticapitalist positions, and will therefore never be left. You, and the people, are not in control in this scenario. This scenario just provides consent for what capital wanted anyways, just with two different flavors: genocidal fascism with a good PR team for the theoretically empathetic and genocidal fascism with an okay PR team for braying hogs.
I’m not American but there’s so many socialists on here refusing to vote for the lesser evil because they don’t offer the right candidates and advocating revolution.
why not take a page from the right’s clearly successful playbook and vote more in local politics and primaries. Maga managed to turn the republicans into exactly what they wanted this way, but the American left just sits there waiting for someone to start a revolution.
well I understand it might be late now and elections might not do much going forward, but jesus it’s like the only option you guys saw is voting for whoever the parties put toward or revolution.
Removed by mod
The Democrats suck but there’s a huge difference between voting for boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. Don’t make me tap the chart.
Surely this means we just aren’t voting hard enough
Clearly, the answer is to go the way of the Revolutionary Government Junta of El Salvador and make voting compulsory on pain of death. I’m sure that if centrists, neoclassical liberals, and white moderates watched Oliver Stone’s Salvador, they’d think that that system is a great idea. If anything, they’d say that summarily executing people for lacking a voter permit is being too nice to them.
90 million people didn’t vote at all. Trump won with 77 million votes. 13 million more people did nothing than all the people that voted for Trump.
Those 90 million people are more correct about the nature of US electoral politics than any Dem voter.
So, not any different from any other presidential election in the USA?
There were 3 million fewer voters than in 2020. This was the most advertised election in US history, and more people sat out.
“Didn’t vote” always beats out the votes for either candidate, though. A small downward shift in the numbers is probably the fault of Democrats dividing their own base by endorsing genocide.
I think in biden’s first election the “didn’t vote” category was beaten.
Yup. According to polls, the number one reason people abstained or voted third-party was Biden/Harris handling of Gaza. It’s either an ignorant or arrogant choice, depending on their awareness of Trump’s sociopathy and unwavering support of Netanyahu.
It wasn’t a small downward shift though. It was greater than the amount Harris lost by, if you count the increase in third-party votes.
Only an American could describe opposition to genocide as “ignorant or arrogant”
There was no opposition to genocide. That would be the ignorant justification.
The choice was between genocide, and genocide with fascism. Knowing that, and choosing to do nothing so you feel better, is arrogant.
Hey now, that’s not fair.
Israelis and Boers would say that, too. And some Germans, still, believe it or not.
I agree. Whether it was ignorance or arrogance, the Democrats are entirely responsible for driving so many people away from the polls and squandering what could otherwise have been a shoe-in for Harris.
Or dumbasses are responsible for the fascist takeover here.
Dems aren’t great but it you couldn’t be convinced to vote here it’s not on them.
But yeah, keep making excuses for lazy people not doing their civic duty. It’s working out great.
gotta say, I’m extremely glad .world defederated from Hexbear. viewing this thread over here is night and day from looking at it on .ml and seeing The Smartest People in The Room say "ahh, so you just support trump then, got it
"I’ll never understand why those people quit reddit. What could their problem be with it?
Reddits just not their favorite flavor of boot anymore. They want federated boots.
They just have to infect every corner of everything with neoliberal garbage. Good thing they’re losing the war
not the only war they’re losing lmao
LOL I’m thinking the same thing, I looked at it logged on out .ml and its chock full of fantasy thinking
if I can’t criticize Dems before the election (that just ends up supporting trump) and I can’t criticize Dems after the election (that just ends up supporting trump), when CAN I criticize them? it seems like they just don’t want me criticizing them at all!!
Here’s the neat part, we’re not allowed any criticism to the Dems! As it’s always election season or post election season.
So there’s no time, just blindly accept who the DNC put forward without listening to the people they say they like!
Remember when everyone was terrified of ron desantis because he was “as evil as trump but a lot smarter”?
It’s a great way to plan for when Trump dies and libs need to scold people all over again.
What I learned from the memes I posted is that liberals just want a single party state
That would be an improvement. They want to take breaks from power by having a fascist party to tag team with
But not in a way that they would weild power and do any good for anyone. They want the American project to go on unimpeded but also for everyone to shut up about it.
The neat part about voting is that even if you do it you can get fascism if the rest of the country are a bunch of fucking idiots.
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The Democratic party is the Graveyard of Social Movements
You had a choice OP
- Vote to maintain a bad status quo
- Vote to make things a billion times worse via fascism
- Start a revolution
Instead you chose secret option d. Make ‘both sides equally bad’ memes to justify the acceptance of fascism.
Always vote against the fascist. Or revolt.
This has to be the most brain dead community on Lemmy, still pulling this “Both sides” bullshit
Welcome to .ml, you’ll get the jokes now.
You might not have noticed but 90% of these posts come from the same user
The most braindead instance is still .world. It’s basically reddit in a nutshell
Look at this guy, believing there’s actually 2 sides
I don’t know on which community we currently are, but this is the most accurate depiction of what’s actually going on. Democrats serve the corporate elite and don’t really bother turning it left.
Stop with this braindead serve the elites meme. Dems last admin passed tons of left wing legislation that benefited everyone.
Nope
You aren’t wrong in that the democrats prefer the status quo but it’s far from both sides being the same. If we have to pick a side, and if we are still pro democracy, we do, there is only one correct choice.
Now if we can convince that side to then use the victory to change the rules, then so be it. For example, Ranked choice voting would be great, but let’s get more states to use it before expecting the highest office in the land to adopt it.
Now if we can convince that side to then use the victory to change the rules, then so be it.
What if Democrats not only don’t change the rules to improve the democratic process, but they also fail to even talk about significantly improving their constituents’ lives? What if they also can’t be bothered to take climate change seriously? And what if – after all that – they do genocide?
I used to think like you do, but at some point in the last decade or two Democrats stopped being a worthwhile option. The party will have to be either radically changed or smashed in order for any major progress to happen anytime soon.
Now if we can convince that side to then use the victory to change the rules, then so be it.
The democrats are only in power for at most two years, and that’s assuming there’s no quislings like Lieberman or Fetterman or Manchin or Sinema in them. So they’ve barely got enough votes to move the needle on anything, and voting is low on the priority list.
And after two years the Republicans win one or both houses of Congress and maybe the presidency, and then undo everything.
This has been repeating my entire life, and now it’s getting to the fascist endgame.
The system itself is broken and failing. It’s not going to help us.
pro democracy
one correct choice
Pick one.
we are still pro democracy, we do, there is only one correct choice.
Western “democracy” in a nutshell. Catch-22 could only dream of such absurdity.
What a shit show. (Not an American, btw)
I wonder, how many “both sides” Americans who didn’t vote (or voted third party) expected Democrats to win anyway. This way they could feel smug for not “voting for genocide” while still getting the clearly better option.
Now they have to pretend they didn’t fuck up and act as if having a “protect the status quo” democrat wouldn’t have been any better.
