Summary
Immigration officials detained a US citizen for nearly 10 days in Arizona, according to court records and press reports.
On 8 April, a border patrol official found Hermosillo “without the proper immigration documents” and claimed that the young American had admitted entering the US illegally from Mexico.
On 17 April, a federal judge dismissed his case. “He did say he was a US citizen, but they didn’t believe him.”
“Under the Trump administration’s theory of the law, the government could have banished this U.S. citizen to a Salvadoran prison then refused to do anything to bring him back,” Mark Joseph Stern, a legal analyst for Slate, wrote on Bluesky. “This is why the Constitution guarantees due process to all. Could it be more obvious?”
Ok. I prefer to approach a situation with reason and logic. It seems like you’d rather respond to anger and ignorance with anger and ignorance of your own. I hope that works out the way you expect.
Do you even hear yourself? Do you actually think these Fascist Goons are gonna patiently listen to your logical arguments and rhetoric, and just let you go? No, they won’t. They’re gonna swoop in, grab you off the street, and throw you into the back of a van before you can open your mouth. Trying to out-argue a fascist takeover is a fool’s errand; the only thing they respect is power for power’s sake. But hey, if you wanna try talking your way out of being illegally deported by Goons with subaverage IQs, be my guest.
I do hear myself and I’m not engaging with them currently. I’m engaging with people on Lemmy at the moment.
The truth is you don’t know what would happen if they came after me, neither do I. I suspect I’m very unlikely to be a target but I think there’s a pretty good chance I’d maybe end up in a position where I’d have to decide whether to intervene on someone else’s behalf, if this continues long enough.
Buddy, I don’t know how much clearer they need to be before you understand that they WILL start coming after American Citizens, of ALL types, so long as they don’t fall in line with the Fascist Regime. Hell, they’ve already started, just look at all the recent stories of people being detained at the borders over nonsense, like that couple in Vermont, or that guy in the southwest. Whether you like it or not, you and I are both targets, simply because we are willing to say ‘No’ to their demands. Even if it’s not you or I, this shit WILL get violent before we’re through, and no amount of logical argument or rhetoric will change that.
I’ve seen a lot of this type of rhetoric lately. It might be true but it seems a lot like wish fulfillment to me. I’m not convinced of the doomsday path that you seem to be and I truly hope it doesn’t;t devolve into violence because that will be a losing proposition for all. I’m optimistic that there’s a path forward without violence but I actually think the hardest part is yet to come. It’s going to be the long term reform once the immediate rot is removed.
Man I’m not happy about it either, but there’s no reality where we can talk our way out of this as a society. There will unfortunately be blood, whether it’s protests against the system getting rowdy with rage, or Fascist crackdowns as the Criminals in Chief seek power consolidation. We’re in for a rough ride no matter what.
I truly hope you’re wrong and am optimistic about what I’m seeing but I think we’re still at a tipping point. The next few months will truly be critical for the country.
On this I think we agree 100%. I don’t expect this to ever be the America it was before ain’t my lifetime, maybe ever.
I’m sure when you get picked up and detained without due process all you’ll need to do is use reason and logic with them and everything will be fine. /s
I’m also sure that your first reaction to that was to snort in disbelief that such a thing ever would or could happen to you, even though it’s already happening to other US citizens. But sure, if you can fit in as a favored type of citizen, maybe it won’t happen to you (that’s the important thing, right?).
It’s time to stop clinging to the belief that things are normal in the United States. Logic, reason, and rule of law no longer apply. Eventually we’ll all have to choose a side: the easy one going along with the fascists, or the hard and probably dangerous one against them–yes, even your strawman single mother who is “very concerned” but needs that ICE job, has to choose.
You’re making a lot of assumptions. I’ve thought about what I would do if I got a visit from ICE. I actually pulled my gun out of the safe and cleaned and oiled it just to make sure it was in good working order. I think if they came to my house I would refuse to let them in and if they tried to force entry I’d use any force necessary to defend myself. That said, if there was a list of citizens to be rounded up I suspect I’d be pretty far down on it.
I don’t think things are normal in the United States however I don’t believe logic, reason, and rule of law no longer apply. Courts are still in session where I live, cases are still being tried, police are still on the streets and enforcing the laws.
My example that you incorrectly called a “straw man” was to demonstrate that making such a broad statement catches people tangentially related who might be stuck by circumstance. I realize a fictitious example isn’t the best but hoped it might help illustrate the point. If it’s easier to consider what’s happening with Tesla and Tesla vehicle owners that’s kind of a parallel. There are people who have had a Tesla vehicle long before the current craziness with Musk that may now find themselves caught in the middle simply because some years ago they bought a car that is now being associated with Nazis.
The Tesla brand is associated with fascists for a reason–Elon Musk is one, and perhaps even the most powerful one. The Tesla brand should become anathema for that reason. It should be a mark of shame to drive one now, no matter what it was a sign of before. Don’t tell me to feel as sorry for Tesla owners as for the people whose lives are being ruined by Musk and the trump regime as a whole. If they could afford to buy one then, they can afford to get rid of it and get something else. Yes, it’s too bad it turned out that way for them, but the blame for that belongs to Musk, not us.
What’s really too bad people being abducted and sent to prison camps. People who have served in the government being fired for no valid reason and the detrimental effects that will have on the rest of us and our society. The destruction of government functionality so it can be taken over and its resources divvied up between fascist oligarchs.
Yes, I’m more worried about the people who will lose their medical care as Medicaid is defunded by Congress, those who may miss payments or even completely lose their main source of income after thousands of Social Security workers were fired and the agency becomes more dysfunctional, those who are suffering or have already died because USAID was suddenly shut down, etc etc etc than I am about someone’s Tesla resale value or those who work for ICE in any capacity.
Who told you to feel sorry for them?
Who told you to worry about someone’s Tesla resale value or to worry about people who work for ICE?
My whole, and only, comment was that I disagree with the broad general statement that any person employed by ICE is a bad person. I don’t think it’s that simple and convenient.
I’m not a huge fan of how much use Nazi is getting lately either. I was implied as being a Nazi in another comment by a user and that is extremely offensive. Nazis called Jews vermin among other names, 47 uses terms like gang member, illegal, and rapist to talk about immigrants. These terms are just ways to buffer and dehumanize the subject you’re talking about.
You’re the one who said Nazi (in your previous post). I use the term fascist which is more accurate for this regime/movement and its supporters, though I don’t doubt that many in its ranks would also fall under and identify with the specific term Nazi.
I’m aware I used the term. It was just an additional thought I had that kind evolved and dovetailed in throughout the number of responses I got that occurred while I was replying to you.
I suppose historians will settle on a specific term, probably ‘maga’ (though I’d prefer ‘magat’), to apply to the members of this instance of fascism.
Look, everyone, this guy labelled himself as logical and reasonable, and his opponent as ignorant!
No, I didn’t call them ignorant, I said they’re responding to anger and ignorance with anger and ignorance. So are you.
Look at your replies. They’re combative and angry. I disagreed with OPs sweeping generalization and offered a different perspective. I offered examples to explain that perspective. You might not like how I view things but rather than reply with civility you lash out with anger.
I’m angry too but I learned a long time ago that acting in anger is rarely a good idea. Now I take a more even and measured approach and I prefer to view things from a more individualistic level.
Being calm doesn’t make you correct any more than being angry makes someone else wrong.
I never said it did. Lemmy is (or was) supposed to be a place for civil discussion. It’s not really about right or wrong, especially on topics like this because so much of it is opinion based. That’s why I stated my disagreement with the broad statement that was made and elucidated about why.
I don’t know that there’s an argument to be made either way which one is “right”. I however reserve my anger for those that have earned it. As far as I can tell we are all largely on the same side of the core issue, I have no desire to lash out and target my anger at you or the OP. If I could have some time with members of this administration it would be a different situation.