That’s just wild. The one silver lining to T2 is that I’m not shocked by anything anymore. It’s still outrageous, but the surprise is gone.
But I thought conservatives said COVID was all made up and a plot by the democrats to control the populace through mask-wearing?
That was last week
Note that mask-wearing only makes it so you can’t breathe if Democrats wants you to do it for public health reasons. Mask-wearing is hunky dory if you’re doing it because you’re a Nazi who doesn’t want to be personally identified.
Oh sure this is like them claiming that nanograms of mercury in vaccines cause autism but they argue that companies dumping mercury into their local atmosphere, soil, and water are overburdened by liberal government regulations and shouldn’t be regulated.
Then in order to “cure” said autism, they pump their children with any manner of completely worthless and dangerous interventions from the same pharma companies they claim to hate.
Yeah I just listened to the newest Behind the Bastards about this and Robert Evans describes numerous examples of parents treating their kids like lab rats and pumping them full of expiramental drugs until they died. It’s awful shit all around.
Well you see, there’s a simple explanation for this. When we do it, it’s good, and when you do it, it’s bad.
We have always been at war with Eurasia
I always wondered what it would be like to live in oppressive regimes like Russia or China. Also never thought I’d live through a pandemic. Checking all the boxes lately.
Why would he want his photo in the middle of that text? He’s associating himself with negativity, I feel like this is marketing/propaganda 101. It honestly looks like a movie poster where he’s the one leaking it.
I’m just sitting here watching the end of the world
By nearly all measures of science, if there was evidence of a natural origin it would have already surfaced
Ah yes, we’ve already discovered everything. Science is over, everyone, let’s go home.
The longer it takes to find the zoonotic link the higher the probability of lab origin.
We already have plenty of evidence to conclude zoonotic origin. Bat RNA. Positive cultures in the wet market. Covid genome.
The closest sample [BatCoV RaTG13] is a 96.1% match and was collected 7 years and 1000km away from the wuhan outbreak.
Positive cultures were found in the wet market, but the origin is not confirmed to be zoonotic. Neither bats nor pangolins were being sold at the market. The virus could have arrived there on the shoe of a lab worker.
The virus could have arrived there on the shoe of a lab worker
And it could have been sprayed by flying saucers. How is that any less probable?
You’re using the words without understanding virology or epidemiology or basic probabilities. We have evidence of prior outbreaks like SARS from the wild and positive cultures in the wet market are major pieces of evidence to back up the origin.
And it could have been sprayed by flying saucers. How is that any less probable?
Because only a trail of infected animals arriving at the market would imply a zoonotic origin.
positive cultures in the wet market are major pieces of evidence to back up the origin.
No, because we cannot determine if those virus cultures arrived to the market on an animal, on the shoe of a lab worker or even by ufo.
The data does not help determine the origin. It only documents the spread.
Not at all. You think animals naturally migrated on their own from the forest to the market and would leave a trail? Someone picked one up and brought it in a cage. It only takes one.
I love how everyone online is an armchair zoonotic expert. Your ideas are inexperienced.
Someone picked one up and brought it in a cage.
Possibly, but there is no evidence that this happened. No animals in captivatity or in the wild outside of the wuhan market have been found with early strains of sars-cov-2.
This is why a lab leak remains as a possible origin.
I love how everyone online is an armchair zoonotic expert. Your ideas are inexperienced.
Expertise is not required to understand what NO EVIDENCE means.
The longer it takes to find the lab origin link the higher the probability of zoonotic origin. /s
The problem with conspiracy theories is they’re non-falsifiable. That something is possible is not evidence that it is probable, that something is probable is not evidence that it happened.
Maybe a lab had something go wrong. Maybe that was because they were careless. Maybe that’s because Trump withdrew funding and oversight from the programs that helped labs like this. That should all be investigated. There’s a difference between asking for a due diligence after action report and assigning blame because “it had to be someone’s fault.”
Conspiracy theories are falsifiable! It just means a theory that somebody kept or tried to keep something a secret. I wish the phrase “conspiracy theory” wasn’t universally conflated with “crackpot conspiracy theory” like flat earthers or q-anon. Covid lab leak is not a crackpot theory. People just think it is because we call it a conspiracy theory.
I think we’re long past trying to be prescriptive about the phrase “conspiracy theory”.
There are real conspiracies, but conspiracy theories tend to start from a place of “X must have been at fault” and work backwards from there. Which leads to endless loops of whataboutisms and excuses to try and excuse the existence of the theory at all costs instead of being interested in what actually happened.
It sounds like you’re suggesting “lab leak implies China is to blame” should be seen as evidence against it being a lab leak? Or that any theory which implies blame must be suspect. This just sounds like an excuse to disregard any evidence that it’s a lab leak, since surely anyone who is arguing that it’s a lab-leak must be motivated to do so.
The converse is also true though – surely you must see that there is similarly motivation to argue in reverse. Why don’t we just set aside assuming that we’re all arguing in bad faith.
It’s possible there was a lab leak, and relevant labs should be investigated for the same reason we investigate all plane crashes, it either leads to finding gaps in processes or confirms whether or not a systemic issue was a factor. The probability has decreased as COVID has been further researched and shows more markers of a ‘natural’ development, but it’s generally beneficial to have a comprehensive audit when processes are in question.
That’s not what these people are arguing. They’re arguing that it’s China’s fault and not Trump’s. That’s it. For that to be the case it ‘must’ be a lab leak, and so they’re retroactively finding justification for how that is possible. That they’re running parallel to a reasonable line of logic for a portion of their argument does not validate their argument.
The problem with conspiracy theories is they’re non-falsifiable.
Disagree. Some conspiracies can be proven with evidence. E.g. Watergate.
The virus had to come from somewhere. Finding a zoonotic trail of evidence (or at least a partial one) adds weight to a natural origin. There is lots of opportunity for new evidence to naturally come to light.
On the lab leak side evidence has already been destroyed by the Chinese government. New evidence is unlikely to surface naturally.
So lack of evidence on the zoonotic side gradually moves the balance of probability towards a lab leak.
The general public is unlikely reach certainty about either scenario. I bet the Chinese government has a certain answer.
That’ll be a relief for high school students everywhere.
By nearly all measures of religion, if there was evidence for a god, it would have already surfaced.
That website is batshit. It looks like a tabloid website. It’s not just promoting the plan leak theory. It also calls out Fauci, Andrew Cuomo, and Biden. It is basically a political hit piece. Fucking embarrassing.
That website is batshit
So it is on point?
USA are sooo close to reinstate flat earth!
Trump is crazy but I still think its possible it was a lab leak. But of course everyone here is 100% confident it wasnt, so no point trying to discuss it.
who cares if it was a lab leak or not, a comet hitting the earth could have been sent by evil aliens, you still have to appropriately deal with the adtermath
Of course, its just that the article wasnt discussing how to deal with the aftermath.
I remember it being a huge deal to figure out where the virus came from. But now people lost interest because they think its figured out. Maybe it is. I dont pretend to know what happened. Will never find out anyway.
who cares if it was a lab leak or not
If gain of function experiments lead to a pandemic and millions of needless deaths, then maybe we should better control gain of function experiments.
Knowing the origins of the last worldwide pandemic is critical to preventing a repeat incident.
As a general rule: Never accuse anyone of a serious crime unless you have evidence to back it up.
I think we should discuss different scenarios without having evidence. Thats how several different theories form in the first place. And then people figure out what happened.
You are probably aware that a lot of events are explained a certain way in public, but actually occured a different way.
A lab leak was not allowed to be discussed in 2020.
And you’ll see why 1984 won’t be like “1984”.
I got that reference. The poster they gave out a MacWorld SF in 2004 is framed on the wall right behind me in my office. Bonus: you can see my Trans Pride (for others) reflected in the glass. It’s hanging in the window.
He really has to put his ugly ass face on everything.
The tall letters in all caps.
The dramatic fade to blue.
Trump standing in the middle.
The fancy font on 𝓒𝓸𝓿𝓲𝓭.Oooh the tackiness is too much to bear
Like if nothing else this admin has hired a good designer tho
Lab leak: picture of Trump. Hm, I always suspected that’s how he came into this world. Good thing they’re officially confirming it.
You made me chuckle while reading comments and I thank you for it.
I don’t think there’s enough evidence to conclusively say that it was natural or that it was a lab leak. There is actually quite a lot of evidence that it was a lab leak, but this website looks like such BS.
There’s also good evidence that Jeanne Calment was not the world’s oldest woman, but was instead her mother. Also, it’s well-understood that lightbulb manufacturers conspired to lower lifespans of bulbs throughout the 20th century. Just because there was a conspiracy don’t mean it ain’t real.
The lightbulb cartell existed, but it wasn’t like we could have had lightbulbs that would have lasted longer with the same efficiency and light output.
The difference between a conspiracy theory and a conspiracy is that the latter has actual evidence for it. I don’t think that’s the case for the lab leak “theory”.
Here’s an analysis of a debate about whether it is or is not a lab leak. There’s very compelling arguments on both sides, but I find the lab leak angle to have the most evidence for it.
I think I understand why people assume it can’t be a leak – it sounds like fiction; people have said this about previous events and turned out to be wrong; it would be bad for China if true, so it must be politically motivated. It’s okay, you can relax and join me in the ranks of people who are open minded to either outcome.
(Edit: This is a stupid aside, but you define theory as something with no evidence for it, and then put lab leak “theory” in quotes as though you don’t think it fits that definition.)
I saw a billboard outside of my city yesterday saying something like “did your loved ones really die of COVID-19?” and had some “covid is a hoax” website named on it. What a fucking dark timeline we’re in.
I overheard a guy in 2021 say to someone that his brother said, “I just came from a funeral for a friend who died from covid.” The next thing the guy said was, "I told him, no, your friend died with covid, not from covid.
It really upset me. I just tried to ignore him but it actually kinda ruined my day.
China had a Wuhan Covid research lab with lax safety standards, is it really a conspiracy?
Usually you’d assume a high probability at least?
Yeah, i agree. I’m not sure of the website but there’s at least a 7/10 chance that lab played a part in this. Feels bad you’re being downvoted by bots that already made up their mind.
What does it matter if it came from a research lab or a market? It’s a highly mutagenic rna virus and it WILL happen again. Wtf man. There are literally thousands of labs studying coronavirus snd one of them did the research that led to the vaccine that saved millions.
It needs to be fixed so it doesn’t happen again.
You can’t prevent virus mutation and human infection. All you can do is prepare for it by studying and researching as much as possible.
People that are ignorant would call for research to stop. Without the previous research we probably still wouldn’t have a vaccine. Which saved millions.
You can’t prevent virus mutation
You can avoid creating an artificial mutation at the furin cleavage site which hasn’t happened in nature before or since.
This is absolutely a lie and is obvious based upon sequence analysis. Coronavirus is one of the most mutagenic in existence. Wild type has already been identified multiple times with the same spike protein changes.
Proof or STFU.
The insertion of FCS sequences into SARS-like viruses was a specific goal of work proposed by the EHA-WIV-UNC partnership within a 2018 grant proposal (“DEFUSE”) that was submitted to the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/
And I see you’ve added another link from a non peer reviewed bullshit article that claims some similarity in sequence proves it’s human made? You are an idiot. Let me be clear: the critical spike protein sequence is so similar between other coronavirus that the critical work in designing a presentable antigen responsible for vaccine development was already done by Jason McClellan’s lab at Dartmouth before COVID-19 happened. That mRNA sequence was licensed by both Pfizer and Moderna.
Basic science research of coronavirus saved millions of lives because the critical hard and time consuming work had already been done.
This will happen again. And your bullshit conspiracy have gotten research shut down that may cost millions of lives.
Do you even read your own bullshit?
From your fucking link: “None of the viruses listed in the write-ups of the experiment are related to the virus that causes Covid-19, SARS-CoV-2”
Just like I thought. Your ignorance of biology does not prove your paranoia.
Ok, so people not overwhelmed by the election may remember that even under Biden last year, it was suggested as a solid, if not more likely possibility. Now, their position ultimately was “we don’t think we’ll ever find the truth” but I think part of that is also knowing that finding out is generally not with the trouble.
Naturally Trump doesn’t care about truth or being nuanced with an “probability” of something, so they’re going to be a bit more definitive.
yes it was very clear it is a leak from the research that lab is doing, their research paper about covid prior to the leak still available!
What is a real conspiracy theory is why they refuse to acknowledge the possibility of a leak ! All of them kept saying “It is not a leak” “if you say it is a leak it is a conspiracy theory” it was so bad how they attack anyone suggest it is a leak, I remember people getting banned in reddit for pointing out news or research about the origin or patient zero.
Wrong. Proof or STFU. Wild type exists with the critical sequence. COVID-19 was not created in a lab. We’ve known that for years. Your ignorance doesn’t prove your paranoia.
A lab leak will always be a conspiracy theory, in theory a group of people conspired to keep a secret. Even when people like the FBI Director Christopher Wray’s comment that the bureau believes Covid-19 “most likely” originated in a “Chinese government-controlled lab”
Then you have conspiracy of [Peter Daszak leading the WHO investigation] (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/20/corrupt-british-zoologist-sanction-wuhan-experiments-covid/)
Not really. German intelligence just concluded a lab leak was the most likely source. Genetic analysis lines up with that, it’s genetically odd. We will likely never get a “broad st pump” or patient zero for COVID but in April 2025 if you were filing a civil case against the Wuhan institute of virology you would win by the evidence it’s more likely than not.
This is a lie. Sequence analysis was done extensively early on and the critical spike protein changes exist in nature. In fact, that’s what the previous 10 years of research which the vaccine was based upon was done on MERS. Proof or STFU. Your ignorance of biology does not prove your paranoia.
I didn’t say it was a sure sign of being made it a lab, it doesn’t have anything so smoking gun. More the weakness to UV would be common for lab strains among other traits. Again with the you’re never going to get a broad street pump. Ever.
The rigid thinkers among us have a hard time accepting the changing landscape of facts but yes someone probably fucked up at WIV. Just wait for someone to fuck up in Georgia with all these budget cuts.
We need more research not less. And removing all government oversight and regulations will make fuck ups incredibly common, as you say.
More the weakness to UV would be common for lab strains among other traits
What do you mean by this? This doesn’t make any sense. Lab strains mutate just like wild type. If you expose a viral to mutagenic factors (ie UV) it creates mutations that 99.9% of the time cause the virus to be non viable.
Meaning it’s preferable to pick strains weak to UV because UV is common for sterilization tech especially air and it’s likely a lab strain wouldn’t need to mutate such a trait just hitch a ride out of the facility end of shift. That said the animal suspected is the nocturnal bat so.
Like something for all of you to think about. The room the bats are in does not have UV internally, it would hurt the bats. Bats have claws and teeth. Those level 4 suits aren’t made of mythril
No I’m not buying you brand. Your specific concern is unwarranted.
K?
