I’m struggling to find relevant information or shared experiences on this topic and I’m hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction. I seem to have always struggled with what I’m calling tech permanence. I define tech permanence as the ability to use some form of tech (either a phone, an operating system, a library, a package manager, etc.) for an extended period of time.
My issue is then that I struggle with maintaining long-term relationships with these technical aspects of my life and it’s starting to affect my work and mental health. An example is likely the best way to describe this.
At least once a week I reinstall the operating system on my desktop computer at work because I can’t seem to commit to Linux or Windows 11. I’m not distro hopping on the Linux side of things (always Debian 12).
I’ve identified a cycle where this behavior repeats:
- Get excited by something that is only available on Linux: this can be a specific software, but more often than not it is actually the file system itself. I love everything about it.
- Work on Linux for a couple of days: in this stage I’ll painstakingly craft an environment that is needed for my work.
- ** Mental cry**: in this stage my mind will tell me that I’m just using Linux to use Linux and everything I want to do I can do on my MacBook or on Windows. I’ve seen this coupled with a bit of anxiety about not being able to use Microsoft products if requested (though I know there are a million work arounds).
- Searching for greener pastures: a stage in which I want to just use products that are more reliable, and honestly, just more pretty. This is the stage that perplexes me the most and often where the reinstall of my desktop to Windows occurs.
- Work on Windows for a couple of days: in this stage I set up my environment, do work for a couple of days, and then wonder why I don’t just use Linux.
- Repeat: I repeat this cycle 1-2 times per week.
This can be mapped to phone operating systems too. An example is that I use an iOS device on a daily basis, but sometimes I’ll go get a cheap Pixel just to throw GrapheneOS on, then to revert to Android, and then back to iOS.
I’ve tried pretty hard to search for relevant examples of this online, but I can’t seem to find the right search terms for any of this. The closest I’ve seen is “object permanence” in the ADHD research, but I’m pretty cautious to start self-diagnosing as I’m not a professional.
Can anyone comment on this or point me to a more appropriate community?
What about using dual-boot or stick with whatever gives you better results? I don’t see the point into constantly changing OS…
I won’t even pretend to have any insights what might be causing the psychological compulsion to constantly abandon and reacquire operating systems - but just from a technical perspective, do you need to completely reinstall the OS instead of just maintaining a multi-boot setup?
Thanks for the response. I suppose that I don’t, but ever since Windows 11, I’ve been reluctant to consider dual boots. Maybe things have changed, but at the introduction of Windows 11, I had lots of issues with dual booting.
So in short, I just haven’t tried it in a while. My main concern is that I would just continue to switch back and forth and the workflow interruption would still exist in that form.
Personally I would definitely focus on figuring out the underlying motivation for the OS hopping, but just in the interest of maybe saving some time having to re-setup everything you might consider:
- I’ve never used Windows 11 so it might have even more insidious tendencies than in the past, but generally the rule-of-thumb for multi-booting has always been to install Windows first. Other operating systems tend to be more considerate about not stepping on other installs they find and their boot loaders more flexible.
- If the budget allows you could also just use a different physical disk for each OS and either disable one in the BIOS or manually disconnect one to choose which OS to boot into.
- Maybe just running a virtual machine or live-boot would satisfy the FOMO aspect?
- Making a snapshot image of your configured install to restore from would also speed up the process of toggling between environments.
Just throwing out ideas, best of luck to you :)
These are all good recommendations and I appreciate them! I’ll keep this in mind but I’m trying to be less impulsive, so I’ll consider this over the course of a few days.
Thanks for taking the time to chime in.
I’ve been dual booting Linux and Windows 11 for years now without issue. You just need to make sure that bitlocker is disabled so you can initially resize the partition or manually set the partition size on install. EFI and split EFI partitions have made it almost impossible to break the bootloader. And if you pick popular distros you don’t even have to turn off secure boot.
The workflow interruptions can be worked around with a syncing solution like Firefox sync for browser and syncthing for files. Or by using a NAS for file storage.
Hell you could even use WSL and run every Linux app you want in Windows, graphical apps too. Or you could install Proxmox on a PC and rdp into 10 different OS VMs from a thin client.
Let’s be honest here reinstalling an OS is probably causing more workflow disruption than any of these other solutions. I know because I went through a distro hoping phase and it’s just a huge time suck for little payout.
I am not a doctor and I’m not going to pretend to be one on the internet. However, it sounds like you may have some mild esoteric form of obsessive compulsive disorder or something adjacent to that. One of my friends and coworkers (in IT) had OCD and it’s no joke. He was part of a support group for it. I’m not trying to scare you or anything but you may want to talk to a therapist. If you do have something like that, it is manageable.
Focusing on the tech side: every piece of software, hardware, or tech is going to be a collection of compromises designed by a committee and implemented by a team of highly flawed humans. In constantly seeking an optimum setup you are falling into the ancient trap of “perfection is the enemy of good enough”.
Maybe gamify this and try to spend more time with your current setup. If you give in to the compulsion to change it again, try to challenge yourself to stick with the new one even longer than the previous one. And, most of all: try to relax and accept the fact that all of this tech shit is always going to be a hot mess! That’s why they patch it and update it constantly. It’s just the nature of the beast.
I appreciate the constructive response. The OCD aspect concerns me, but it seems in line with my behavior so I will investigate that further. In particular, I have access to a therapist through my work so that might be the next most logical step.
I agree that no technical environment is the end all, and I’m going to try and tap into that perspective next time this comes up.
The ADHD (maybe depression?) concern shouldn’t be dismissed if you have decent insurance | live in a decent country get that checked out.
Personally I maintain a dualboot environment.
Windows for multiplayer games and Microsoft office.
Kubuntu LTS for everything else.
I find debian is fantastic for server stuff, but mediocre for a desktop experience, esp related to drivers and games.
ADHD was my first thought. This is very similar to how I am with most things, namely how I entertain myself. My situation is much less disruptive, but equally frustrating.
It’s also possible it could be tied to bipolar disorder or maybe an interplay between the two (I’ve been diagnosed with both).
It’s definitely worth the time for OP to go to a therapist and/or psychologist to discuss these issues.
Personally I just deleted Windows from everything I have. I also just picked one Linux distro since distros are basically all the same anyway, and if I need to make something work, I always try to do it within the confines of that distro first.
Shift your compulsion for tinkering from distrohopping to tinkering within a given distro. That way you create some semblance of stability. I mean, unless you’re happy with the situation you’ve described. It definitely sounds ADHD and I say that as being one myself. I enjoy hopping between interests and fixations pretty regularly, but I don’t do it with my OS because the OS is a platform for me to hop between my fixations, not a fixation in and of itself.
Thanks for that perspective. I definitely feel like operating systems are a fixation for me. I love understanding their nuances and making them do things that aren’t typical. This is the crux because an operating system in a work environment is where I need the most stability.
How does one even go about exploring an official ADHD diagnoses? Is that something done through a therapist? Another commenter suggested seeing one and I’m taking that thought seriously.
Just search for “ADHD assessment” in your area. Many psychology offices will offer that service. Be aware it may be expensive depending on what’s covered by your healthcare system.
It definitely sounds like it could fit into the ADHD / Autism spectrum.
I am diagnosed with ADHD and have a very similar compulsion, but with Linux distros. I used to keep switching between Debian Stable and Arch.
For me, the driving factor was that I wanted my computing environment (which is where I spend most of my time) to be absolutely perfect and “clean”. Quitting the distro-hopping was like quitting an addiction. I made a conscious decision to stick with Arch and deal with all problems that arise without switching back. Getting involved in community service and charitable work also helped. I simply don’t have several hours of uninterrupted free time anymore to reinstall and set everything up again.which is where I spend most of my time
I think that this is a major component of it for me as well. I’m a data scientist at an academic research institute, so my day consists of 7-9 hours of screen time. I take a lot of pride in my physical environment so it only makes sense that this transfers over to my computing environment as well.
The euphoria that one feels from quitting an addiction is how I feel in stages 4-5 where I reinstall Windows, but it only lasts until the FOMO kicks in. I’m still trying to figure it all out, but I appreciate you sharing your perspective.
i’ve had this issue when I wasn’t using my computers for anything serious, and haven’t had any sunken cost into complex configurations
but now that on a second year of uni, and we’re actually starting to work on serious shit, i no longer have time to ponder about greener grass, much less hopping between operating systems to reconfigure them back and forth
so, yeah. try finding something that “ties” you to your setup, and focus on that. eventually you’ll just start to ignore your os
relatedly, please actually do some research about adhd, i see this issue all the time in fellow adhd havers because changing setups gives some of us a much needed rush of dopamine
Thanks for chiming in on this. Your perspective actually feels the most accurate to what could be going on. A lot of this switching behavior comes out of times where work is slower than usual. When I’m actively engaged throughout the day this sort of thing doesn’t cross my mind. I’ll be taking your request seriously about researching ADHD.
I was a bit like that. You’re getting overstimulated about things, and becoming a tweaker. Focus on what matters, that is to get the job done and on mid to long term goals. There is no need to seek a diagnosis as that only will put you into drugs.
There is no need to seek a diagnosis as that only will put you into drugs.
Extreme hard disagree
Refrain from doing useless opinions. I talk from experience, as a victim of psych forced treatment, overdiagnosis and overprescription. If you go to a shrink, the only thing he will do is put a label on you and push drugs that have horrible side effects.
That does not sound healthy. It sounds like it is having a significant impact on your work.
I have no idea what could be going on. But it sounds like you are chasing dopamine, all else be damned.
The reason for these switches doesn’t seem to be worth the effort of switching so it seems kind of irrational and driven by …something. Euphoria? Compulsion? Maybe it is an impulse control thing? I’m not a psychologist so what do I know.
I think a less impulsive approach would be to evaluate the pros and cons of the options, even if briefly, and decide once and for all if a major switch in OS was needed. Or if there were a more measured approach like installing windows on a separate disk.
It sounds like you’re just kind of burning the house down and rebuilding on a whim and as a result can’t get anything done.
Aren’t you worried you’re going to get fired when they ask you what you’ve gotten done in the last month and you tell them, “nothing except changing operating systems a dozen times?” (He asks, as he is blowing off work again today… We all got our issues I guess)
I agree this sounds like ADHD to me, but I’m curious and a bit concerned. You say you’re doing this to your work computer? Most places I’ve worked were committed to one flavor of operating system, so I’m a little curious about what you do [which is something you don’t have to answer, obs].
On the work side, however, this constant tinkering with your operating system has got to be affecting the amount of work you can get done. If this isn’t a job you care about, fair enough. If it is, I’d likely survey my coworkers and use whatever OS they’re using - at the very least, it increases the chances of confrere “tech support” when something goes wrong, plus the ability to share tools and methods.
If you’re not willing to dual boot, is there a chance you could set up a second PC, running one for each OS? You could get a KVM switch to swap between “instances” and save yourself this endless OS reinstallation process.
Yes and I thought I was alone. It took having two different devices with different OS’s to satisfy me and even then I still get the urge to switch things up. I feel like I did it because I was trying to do too much that I didn’t know how to do in Linux and it got me frustrated. I would follow written walkthroughs with screenshots and things just wouldn’t work and I couldn’t figure out why or troubleshoot so I would go back to Windows. I’ve been doing alright with my two machines and I feel way more comfy using Ubuntu now that I’m not trying to do things in the terminal and just using it on the surface level unless absolutely needing to change things using the terminal.
I never thought to reach out to anyone for help though. I’m the only person I know that uses Linux regularly and I’m not a super social person…
You might just enjoy the process of setting things up. Or if you are like me when my mental health goes bad I tend to organize home/computer/collections and it’s got to the point when I see myself doing it I stop and evaluate myself. How’s you mental health doing?
I think this is a really good point… I have been struggling a lot lately with purpose. I bet that’s a component to all this. I’ll be taking some extra time to evaluate how I’m doing.
Well if i can give you some advice i have picked up. Be kind to yourself while you do so, it’s okay to not be okay and your feelings are valid. Good luck!
I think you should describe this to a therapist. It sounds like a lot of stress and instability added to your life. I hope you figure out how to address it
Thank you, I plan to do just that.
If i had to take a guess your anxiety issues are tied to tech because that’s what you like/is good at/excites/entertines/distracts you ? Anyway its hard to say from the given info also may i ask if there is a period of time where you really want to do it and some time yoy don’t likefor an anology sometimes you really wanna piss then sometimes you don’t ? Also how is other things going on in life ? Does your schedule change like do you push things back for this ? I am not saying its definetly mental it could just be that you are a nerd chasing the next best thing . Also if you wanna talk dm me i am psychology nerd who has done some studies on it and maybe get into it officily later .
You might want to redirect the impulse towards three things you can reasonably control, all of which I now employ:
- Virtual machines. Virtualbox lets you set up a little Debian instance(which can be made in a lower storage/memory footprint by sticking to a 32-bit version and XFCE desktop), and it can talk to the host OS and share stuff either using the Guest Additions functions or through networked apps like SyncThing. Windows can also be accessed in this way. Your urges to have both are therefore tamed by…literally having both, and as many instances as you want. Having the config “bottled up” like this can even be more important than having the work task run quickly, because configuration really does take a huge amount of time.
- Paper notes. Use these to transcribe your work and “do the real thinking” while engaging in rote, relatively mindless copying of whatever you just did or whatever documentation you need to use. Computers give you wrong answers infinitely fast, is the mantra. Sometimes the only thing to do is to literally make a process that slows you down. The beauty of traditional materials for that is that the experience is basically similar everywhere but with countless variations. Just with the paper alone you can use fancy pocket journals, cheap subject notebooks, three-ring binders, sketchbook paper, index cards, etc. And then with the pens and pencils you can explore several broad categories(wood pencil, mechanical, lead holder, ballpoint/gel/roller, marker, fountain, dip) and get color and line style variety to mark up your notes into artworks.
- Hobby hardware/software. I have a project now where I am building some Forth libraries for 8-bit games on Agon Light, a new single-board retrocomputing device. The point here is not to have the best “productive” tech environment, but to have one that feels artistically in tune with you, and that can means putting your foot down and allowing some DIY and “slow computing” in your life. The Agon design is open, very clean, very hackable. It’s something I could sink years into in a satisfying way, and working in Forth lets me “own” that since Forths are very detail-oriented - you’re supposed to make exact designs with them. There’s no “missing out” because there’s nothing to miss out on - there’s only one way to really make it my way, and that’s to get it through my hands.
