And to shut down the day of a total solar eclipse? That’s extra mean.
There should be some mandatory support period for newer IoT products
I just don’t buy IoT devices that need to talk to the manufacturer’s server to function. I’ve got Home Assistant running at home, and everything works fine offline.
Yes I myself would check if it works with home assistant before purchase , but also there should be some guaranteed period for majority users who want features but not bother with self hosting.
Normalize mandatory open source when a product is no longer supported. Either we pay for a service and they Replace it free of charge or we own it properly
- stop e-waste/ longevity
- Breed innovation
- Foster community engagement
- Boost educational value
- Improve compatibility and interoperability
- Empower user customization and flexibility
Never buy a cloud-enabled device.
If you don’t buy any devices that talk to remote servers, how did you post this comment?
Did you fax it in?
It looks like you can trade up to a newer supported device, or get a 50% off coupon, depending on whether you’re a subscriber or not.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/7/23673165/google-nest-dropcam-nest-secure-eol
To soften the blow, Google’s offering a free indoor wired Nest Cam to Dropcam owners who subscribe to Nest Aware. Nonsubscribers will get a 50 percent-off coupon. The promotion runs until May 7, 2024, so you can keep using your Dropcam until it stops working.
Still sucks, but it’s better than having a paperweight in your hands. Also note:
Google will ship you a prepaid recycling box if you ask.
Abused customers will be offered an inferior replacement paid for by their monthly fees.
So after spending a fair amount of money on a device with forced obsolescence, I get to give more money to this company, yay!
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9257288?hl=en
Not only are they dropping support for it and unless someone figures out how to hack you just throw it away. But don’t worry, they won’t automatically cancel your subscription… that function keeps working.
just like how reddit allows you to pay for premium if ur account is banned. Gotta have the priorities set straight.
Google is giving Dropcam owners 50% off on Nest Cams, but that was a hard pass from me.
Only 1 hour or local storage, cloud backups are not end to end encrypted, and you have to use Google’s services / app.
I ended up buying a little Aqara camera. Video can be stored locally on SD card or NAS, and if you’re in Apple’s ecosystem, it supports HSV. So E2EE cloud storage + no need for the manufacturer’s app.
I really like the Aqara stuff I have now and have been looking for a good solution to replace my Xfinity home security system and hadn’t even considered them.
Do they have any outdoor cameras? My quick search didn’t find any.
They have a video doorbell, but that’s it for outside stuff. I ended up going with an Eve camera for outside and using HSV. So still remote storage, but at least it’s properly encrypted.
What’s HSV? Does the Eve integrate in with HomeKit/home assistant the way Aqara does?
HomeKit Secure video.
Eve is basically HomeKit-first right now. I can’t speak for home assistant unfortunately.
c/internetofshit material
Just returned 2 Eufy cameras because the company claims ownership of my video streams and won’t allow me access to those streams. Their website conveniently hides the fact that almost all of their cameras are locked to their base station or their cloud, and makes it look like the streams are readily accessible. Ultimately that means Eufy can pull the plug at any time.
Many people got wise to the printer ink racket, they’ll eventually figure out these cloud services are to be avoided too.
I got burned by MyQ garage doors and JuiceBox EV chargers doing a rug pull on their cloud platform.
Never buying another piece of smart home gear that doesn’t give full local control.
Look into ratgdo if your willing to DIY. Konnected is just about to release a version of the same. More costly but konnected actually has customer service.
RATGDO is great.
Opengarage is also great. You just wire it into the same ports as your garage door button and you can then connect to it via its wifi app or home assistant. Works like a champ for $50.
Same folks that did opensprinkler.
I’m pretty sure whatever model of Nest cams I have (looks like the original drop cam style) have RSTP support… I wonder if they can be used with Frigate NVR?
I assume there’s no way to re-configure them after that deadline… but Corals are back to like 150% of MSRP ;-)
If it needs someone’s cloud servers to function, you don’t really own it.
This is a good place to plug* Home Assistant .
That combined with Thread/Matter ensures I own my own stuff, and they don’t need to report to the cloud.
It’s still a little rough around the edges, but I’d rather deal with the frustrations of bleeding edge open source than to just have tech I’ve built into my house expire at some company’s whim.
Check out some screenshots of home assistant dashboards.
* This is not an for profit advertisement. It’s all open standards, and you don’t have to give anyone a dime that you don’t want to. The whole point of this is to avoid vendor lock in and data collection. And to have your stuff keep working without internet.
Yea… My current home automation is all local, but cameras are still an issue.
I’ve got 3 cameras running on a vlan, with no access to the internet.
Frigate / Home Assistant + tail scale (want to move away from this service) let me see my cameras remotely, receive notifications from events and even look at events / stills on my watch.
I have some cheap 5mp Reolink camseras, not the best for frigate but get the job done.
We need consumer protections here, though.
Like 10 year money back guarantee or something. If the device becomes unusable due to actions outside of the device owners control, those in control should be obligated to reimburse.
Not doing so opens the doors to racketeering.
I vote for forced open sourcing of the server side components and communication protocols. That way people can create custom firmware or build support into generic NVRs
Most customers would not be able to take advantage of this because they lack the skills to do so.
You don’t need every consumer to roll their own. If they’re obligated to provide server code, or an API, or whatever, stuff that sells at scale can be integrated into community projects. If you buy something obscure you might have issues, but you have options if you buy something mainstream and get the rug pulled.
Right, but what I’m saying is how many people do you think will be able to track down the new open-source project and connect it to their hardware?
Because if the community solutions are good enough then half the articles about the shutdown will mention it
Word does spread and if there are enough of a group, people will likely setup 3rd party hosting solutions around supporting abandoned abut functional products.
But the secondary effect is likely to be that companies support their products for much longer.
You don’t think it will be mentioned in any of the articles about the hardware being abandoned?
But community projects would very likely also allow third parties to provide services that handled the legwork for customers if they preferred as well.
Ten years really isn’t that long.
Not doing so opens the doors to racketeering.
That’s the idea.
I mean I haven’t seen it yet but for a simple example, imagine a Netflix competitor that says you just buy the device for $5,000. One time purchase. Free ad-free tv forever.
Let’s say they get enough subscribers to profit by year 3.
Okay. Rug pull. Chapter 11. Sorry bye, thanks for all the fish.
or just install a rootkit on users’ computers …
Holy shit that just gets worse as you read it. These companies have always acted with impunity, and always will.
Wow I forgot about switchfoot
I don’t think we need to set a global minimum date, but the manufacturer should have to put a date on the box. If they don’t support the device up to that date (including security updates and maintaining any required cloud services) then the consumer gets a full refund with possibly additional damages.
I think of it like the digital version of a nutrition facts table.
Good idea. If we do this and also add some sort of positive label on devices that work locally and are interoperable it might start a positive feedback loop: More people become aware of the issue or simply want the device with the better label when choosing in a store, leading to more manufacturers producing more devices that aren’t cloud-dependent.
Right now I often see the opposite happening: Manufacturers who don’t even put on their packaging that their system is really just Zigbee under the hood for example.
Yeah. For sure. If your device doesn’t depend on a cloud service you can put that on your label and it is basically a gold star.
Although even local devices should get security updates. The radios and the firmware speaking the ZigBee protocol can have vulnerabilities.
Yeah.
This is why I bought myself some blink cameras. Obviously, privacy is shit (and I’ve factored this) and you’re affectively forced to pay for use their cloud service, but at least the (initial) purchase price is cheap.
But I’ve ‘bought’ cameras for far more, only for them to hobble functionality a few years down the line. And they’ve had vulnerabilities or whatever.
For the sensitive stuff, I have a camera with an SD card, but obviously phone notifications is a big selling point of systems like this.
Amcrest. Cloud service is optional, you can self host with their equipment, or use industry standard Onvif to integrate with any 3rd party (self hosting) hardware and software.
We need laws about refunds when they pull this kind of bullshit.
“[Google] will give users an exclusive offer for a Self Setup System from ADT on us (up to $485 value) or $200 to use on the Google Store.”
Oh shit. Google doing this right!?
They also were pretty cool when shutting down stadia, full refunds and you keep the hardware.
True. They absolutely have their faults but they do seem to be handling hardware shutdowns like this morally.
Used my credit to buy my mom a new phone.
Google did a solid in this case.
I kind of understand that they can’t offer the cloud service forever - that’s OK, but I’d like there to be a local option then
I think they are selling hardware on reduced price so they can make money on cloud services. And by spying and selling customer data.
The problem is that investors want to invest in data collection, not in making new hardware and service.
Until that time,ight I suggest mailing the devices to congress.
There’s just no way mailing electronic devices to Congress would (rightfully) result in visits from several armed FBI agents.
Because?
Or laws they have to make devices have a open API before shutting down servers.
This reminds me of how Google handled the stadia shutdown. Now many controllers have got a second life thanks to the option to enable bluetooth.
Still a limited time window for you to update the firmware before they got bricked.
They added another year to the window, in case you see one at the resale shop.
True. And communication was also not ideal.
That will never work either. They’ll just transfer it to a subsidiary towards the end and then shut down the company. Then there’s no one to enforce the law on.
270 euro 10 years ago but yeah.
It’s unclear to me what your point is.
Is it that this is roughly equivalent to €345 today, and we should point out the current worth?
Or is it that the purchasers go 10 years of value for €270 and so this is a big nothing burger?
If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing. [yes, from the same guy who gave us “enshittification”]
I’d heard and used both phrases before but didn’t realize they had the same author. Coincidentally, I recently reread one of his books, Little Brother, also by chance of reading about it on a Lemmy comment.
It’s no surprise the author of that book has these views. I think I’ll read more of his work.
recommend Walkaway (completely unrelated to the subreddit, they went in a very … *cough* different direction)
On your recommendation, I picked up a copy from my library this morning. Only had time for the first chapter, but I’m already liking it. Thank you.
He is currently featured in a Humble Bundle, so if you read digital books (I use a tablet, my wife a ebook reader, but you can also use a phone or laptop) then you can get many of his books cheaply (without DRM, of course).
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/cory-doctorow-novel-collection-tor-books-books
from the very link you posted (emphasis mine):
As Tyler James Hill wrote: “If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing”
Doctorow’s not wrong.
This Doctorow fellow seems like he has some interesting things to say.
good, this shits spyware anyway. Literally in fact, it’s hardware, that can be used to spy.
That’s enough of my anti-consumerism bullshit for the day though.
