I am not a native English speaker and I have sometimes referred to people as male and female (as that is what I have been taught) but I have received some backlash in some cases, especially for the word “female”, is there some negative thought in the word which I am unaware of?
I don’t know if this is the best place to ask, if it’s not appropriate I have no problem to delete it ^^
im a female. im offensive. does that count?
a female what?
yes
what ain’t no species I ever heard of. do they speak english in what?
No.
I personally would always prefer saying boy girl man woman over male and female. Whener I first saw it used it was always in a negative context like “young black male” in regard to some crime to give the opposite example. Just like in French I think it’s weird to refer to humans with male and female, although accurate of course, as I would only expect it in for animals.
Yas, Queen
You can use it to compare humans with animals. It is often used in animal documentaries. You can use female/male as a name in general. Then you have it very clear in a little bit insulting style. On the other hand it’s not really insulting and nobody can expect from a second or third language guy to speak in a non-offensive style like US- or UK establishment people like to do. This would be racism. 🤡
This is what I said to someone who asked a very similar question about the same thing a while back:
‘Females’ is, effectively, a ‘technical term’ you might say, that isn’t used in normal conversation. It’s used specifically in situations where distance from the subject being discussed is intentional. It is the sort of language used in police reports, medical reports and the like…when it’s even being applied to humans at all. Its use is perhaps more common referring to animals; it’s the sort of terminology you’d expect to hear in a nature documentary.
The people trying to push its use are intending to make the subjects - women - sound ‘other’ and separate and alien by referring to them as ‘females’. Not everyone who is picking up this terminology intends it that way, but the connotations are unavoidable because of how language works in common use, and therefore if you don’t intend it that way, you badly need to be made aware of it so you can stop.
I guess it would be kind of like referring to another person as “human”.
"Hey who helped you with this?”
“This human over here, my co-worker.”
Saying ‘female’ to refer to a person who is female can sound overly technical or abstracted, and therefore a bit dehumanizing or depersonalizing.
That said, some people over-react, and sometimes it is more appropriate or at least fine to say ‘female’, for example if you were speaking in the abstract about something that spans between women and girls, or is specifically about biological sex.
But most of the time ‘women’ or ‘girls’ or even ‘ladies’ is going to be more appropriate.
What language are you coming from, out of curiosity?
Not really offensive, but it carries a reductive vibe, the ones who use “female” instead of “woman” are often incels, giving the term a bad conotation.
Also, Ferengis…
Likewise I have seen radical feminists use “male” all the time. Is it okay to classify them as femcels and misandrists?
this! an example of someone always using it in a such a way is Andrew Tate. watch any of his videos where he mentions girls and you’ll immediately understand
Jeez, mark that NSFW please
Episode is so stupid, I can’t not laugh.
I always think of the ferengis when people use men to describe men, and females to describe women.
I think it’s because it’s mostly used by “sigma male” seing womens as objects(not sure thought, but that’s why i’ve seen).
As far as I’m concerned. No not a problem.
If someone says they identify as something else then make the correction.
I don’t think the question was about misgendering people but about using “female” instead of “woman”.
If that’s the case then I have less of a clue as to where the problem is
Living under a rock the last 15 years?
Making fun of someone for not knowing something, are we?
More like implying they do know, actually. It’s hard to imagine speaking english as well as they do and somehow not knowing this.
Welcome to the real world?
Read the other comments in this thread. “female” as an adjective is fine, “female” as a noun is often abused by misogynists to imply women are less human than men.
Would you prefer I identify you as a nincompoop or a nazi? I won’t respect your choice, and will refer you to the latter.
Depends entirely on how you use it. There are many perfectly valid uses for the word, like in science or on a checkbox where you select you gender. The point where it can get offensive is when referring to individuals or groups of women as “females” where you could instead just use “women”. It’s language often used by incels and the like.
It’s potentially offensive when people say men and females, which is often why it comes up online. Using either male or female as a noun is dehumanizing, in that it’s not commonly used to refer to people, but mostly animals (law enforcement and military use them as nouns, but they’re also intentionally distancing themselves from the people in reports).
Basically, “women” feels weird for a lot of English speakers, but “girls” sounds creepy, so they try for something else. Just go with women, 99% of the time, it’s perfectly fine
This just seems women are more touchy about this stuff then men.
Someone called me out on reddit for using the word girls for women and it was sexist because it is infantising, and it was stupid because they were making out I don’t call men boys. When I absoultely do, in fact I do it more than the alternative. Really the only way I was sexist on that is that I don’t do it as much as I do with men so if anything I should do it more.
But you can’t win, someone’s always going to be offended
It’s mostly this, I would say. But in general there’s a valid context to use male/female and another valid context to use man/woman or girl/boy or lady/gentleman.
Most people are not going to hold someone speaking English as a second language to task over it. But if you’re speaking natively, there’s no real excuse not to know when it is right to use the correct term.
But that’s just my own opinion.
Just say ladies. That’s polite.
I’m torn here. It’s a good way for me to talk about my peers (early thirties) in the third person, but it doesn’t quite fit for second person for me. (Edit: ”guy” is also not great for second person, now that I think about it, so maybe it’s more equivalent than I realized. Though for plural third person, it still isn’t 1:1, imo. “Two guys in my class” has a different connotation from “two ladies in my class,” but I can’t put my finger on why.)
“Ladies” feels formal/salesy (if someone addresses a group of women I’m in as “ladies,” it feels like they’re either a server for our group dinner or trying to quickly build rapport) to me, whereas “lady” can often feel straight up rude ( “hey, lady!” sounds like Bart Simpson said it vs. “hey, ladies!” which could mean so many different things depending on the context, but seems less annoyed at least).
While generally true, there are some people from older generations that associate ladies with prostitution as in ‘ladies of the night’ and find it offensive.
Yes, I have known quite a few and they are in their 60s to 80s right now.
“women” feels weird for a lot of English speakers
Why does it feel weird? (not a native speaker here)
Because there’s no good equivalent to “guys” for women, and women often feels too old/formal. If I’m talking about a group of 19 year olds, then they are women and men (and there’s no good word for NB adults, other than “adults,” that I can think of, either), but 19 year olds still feel younger than women and men. “Guy” is any age and denotes a peer or relaxed relationship, but “woman” and “man” don’t have those connotations. I would talk about the man who works at the bank and the guy who works at the coffee shop, as an indicator of familiarity, if that helps. If you speak a language with a formal you and an informal you, it feels like a similar distinction to me, though those are also all different.
“Guys” can refer to groups of women, and I definitely call my sisters guys, but if you talk about “a guy,” it isn’t gender neutral where I’m from.
“Lady” singular denotes age, but not formality, though the formality difference between “lady” and “ladies” is hard (I could absolutely see someone saying “some lady was an absolute asshole at the gas station today,” but “two ladies were absolute assholes at the gas station,” is weird).
Thanks!
Gals is the term that matches guys, but it seems like it fell out of favor when women was promoted as a response to the use of girls in a negative way to describe women (adults) in an infantilizing way. Like it was common to say men’s sports and girls sports in the same way that incels use men and females.
FYI: Ladies goes with lords, as in lords and ladies.
I know gal is considered an equivalent, but the only people I’ve ever known to use it were Girl Scout leaders and square dance callers, so it doesn’t feel at all equivalent to me. I don’t know if this is widespread and/or why the word never gained as much traction as “guy,” but I definitely don’t enjoy being called a gal. It feels infantilizing and othering to me, like when people say “and dudettes!”
Interestingly, gal comes from “girl,” whereas guy comes from guy fawkes. I would have made a very unwise bet that “guy” was older.
Terms for the sexes/genders are treated differently. In the US, the only term I can think of that has been used derogatively for men is ‘boy’, and only in the context of racism for disparaging adult men who are black.
On the other side, most of the terms have been used negatively in different contexts. Women were often called girls to infantilize them. Gals was used to avoid formality. ‘Ladies of the night’ spoiled the term ladies because of the association with prostitution.
On the flip side a boys club isn’t disparagingly to infantilize men, as shown in the song ‘The boys are back in town’. A girls night out is generally not seen as a negative, but calling women’s sports in college girl’s sports is while men’s sports tend to just be called sports.
So while there are exceptions, other terms for men terms tend to not be used negatively like other terms for women do and that is why women’s terms tend to fall out of favor over time while men’s stick around.
This is why I love the word “y’all”
woman reads as “wo-man”
women reads as “we-men”English is weird. I blame the British.
While we’re at it, loose and lose. Somehow taking away an o makes the vowel sound longer and makes the consonant voiced?
Contextual irregularities.
There’s a loss connection in there that ties into it.
Very mish-mash sort of stuff, eh?
What about when specifying the gender of your friend? “My woman friend” sounds really weird to me. I usually say, “my female friend” because it sounds more natural, but I don’t want to sound like an incel/misogynist.
For what it’s worth, I say “my male friend” as well.
Nonono, it’s always okay to use it as an adjective, so that’s fine!
As non native English speaker. For me yes, clearly.
Lol what the fuck?
You don’t accept that we are not animals ? Female is offensive and used by sigmas and incels 💁
I interpreted your initial comment as calling OP’s English out, tbh.
Thanks, did an edit.
I’m sorry English is awful, but it’s much clearer now :)
Incels using a word offensively does not make the word inherently offensive, and by letting them reframe the word in their favor you’re giving them power they do not deserve.
When using male/female to denote biological sex, the words should not be offensive. “Were you born malr or female” in a medical settting can be vital to treatments, for example.
Generally, though, people ought to be using gender.
Nope. Next.
The way I explained it to a chronically single friend who used this word problematically all the time, and made him stop: Female is a word that describes gender and/or sex. My wife is female, and so is my dog. My wife is literally a woman, and my dog is literally a removed, so if I speak of my wife with the same sterile language that I speak of my dog, then my wife would easily conclude that I have no respect for her. I then asked him how the dating world was treating him, he said “bad”, and I said “of course, because you treat women like dogs”.
Never heard him say it again.
This is a good way of describing it for non-US or non-native speakers. The context is important. If you are speaking in an environment where linguistic sterility or pedantic exactitude are paramount, use female because that is the correct term. Things like studies; medical, statistical, anthropological, etc. If you are in a social situation, use a non-sterile term like woman for an adult, girl for a child, or some other non-pejorative colloquial term. If “chick” or “dame” or “babe” are acceptable to the girls/women of the social circle, go wild with them, if not, don’t. This is viable advice for any pronoun or colloquial reference, no matter the gender/sex of the people around. Their emotions matter.
Also, if you are speaking with physists about physics, object pronouns become appropriate because no matter how offended people get, they have a volume and warp spacetime, so therefore they ARE objects. 🙃
