This maybe a dumb question but i became paranoid all of a sudden and wanted some answers because i can’t find it anywhere else nor can i sleep without it. Like even if i did flash linux on a lets say amd laptop couldn’t the chip itself be spying on me ? Also i understand bootloaders are stored or rom is there a way to know what else is stored on it are roms open source ? Are cpu’s open source and companies like asus store their logos and shit on their mother boards so what else could they be storing ? Are there open source alternatives for these parts ? Are we all being privacy cautios for nothing ? I know we can use firewall but wouldn’t the chip integrated have the ability to bye pass it ?
I know there are linux laptops but having a pre installed linux and some switches isn’t gonna solve the problem do they use open source roms and motherboard ? Are there any fully open source chipsets ? I want to know the same about smartphones too ?
IMPORTANT EDIT : Please don’t suggest alternatives like dumb phone i wanna know if there is any way to know or ensure we are not spied upon while using smartphones or laptop . And i don’t care about my os spying on me or the apps apps or web spying on me all i wanna know is if the hardware i use are spying on me and if not how do you know ? . Also which is better in terms of open source and privacy intel or amd ?
ANOTHER IMPORTANT EDIT : I am also not concerned by my isp tracking me or someon hacking me as i said all i care about is the hardware doing me in .
LAST EDIT I HOPE : AS I SAID MULTIPLE TIMES AND STILL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IS I DON’T CARE IF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE HARDWARE IS SPYING ON ME . LIKE ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT TOP CYBERSECURITY WORKERS OR ELITE HACKERS ARE JUST HOPING THEIR HARDWARE IS NOT SPYING ON THEM AND THERE IS NO WAY FOR AN ELITE HACKER OR CYBERSECURTY WORKER TO ENSURE THEY ARE NOT BEING SPIED BY THEIR HARDWARE OR IS THERE NO OTHER FULLY OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE THEY CAN BUY ?I’M NOT INTERNET SHOUTING OR WANTING TO BE RUDE I JUST WANNA GET THE POINT ACROSS ALSO PLEASE DON’T AVOID THIS AND ANSWER SOMETHING ELSE I JUST WANNA KNOW THIS SPECIFIC THING.
EDIT: LET ME MAKE IT VERY CLEAR I’M JUST A RUN OF THE MILL GUY BYING RUN OF THE MILL LAP AND PHONE AND USING IT I AM NOT BEING TRACKED BY NSA I’M SURE OF THAT BECAUSE I AM NOT THAT INTERESTING EVEN IF I WERE ITS NOT THE QUESTION UNLESS THE CIA OR NSA IS MAKING 1000 OF LAPS TO CATCH ME . YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TI ANSWER ME AND I AM GRATEFULL FOR YOUR ANSWERS BUT PLEASE ANSWER WHAT I WANT TO KNOW I FEEL LIKE YOU GUYS AND GALS DON’T EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE SUBJECT.
Bro lost his shit in the edits section
You know that it is. Simple as that. Especially phones. Thing is, most of what you do isn’t interesting enough to spy on. Don’t bring your phone when you do illegal activity. Otherwise don’t worry about it.
System76, Tuxedo computers and Framework may be close to what you are looking for.
But you need to think about your threat model and decide how much work/study you need to consider yourself “safe”, because the only way to be absolutely sure that your hardware is trustworthy, is too build it from the scratch.
“I’M NOT INTERNET SHOUTING”, he internet shouted.
There’s a chance, OP, that you might have carbon monoxide poisoning if it’s true that you “became paranoid all of a sudden”. For anyone with gas appliances, regularly check that your CO detectors are working.
I don’t mean this as a diss or to invalidate your (totally valid) concerns about data privacy.
I’ll always remember that Reddit (it feels awkward typing that name here…) post where a user discerned from a post that the OP was likely suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning. OP checked it out and there were high levels in his house, random internet stranger basically saved the guy’s life.
I hope lemmy gets some super interesting posts that become core lore for the entire user base like this one was for reddit.
You can’t know. There’s no possible way to verify what any of it is doing.
Unless you’ve built your own hardware out of discrete components and know personally what every byte in the code does, you absolutely cannot know what’s actually going on in there.
And honestly, a large chunk of both consumer harware and networking certainly is spying on people.Every ISP and major datacentre has a TLA room that mere mortals aren’t allowed to go into or ask questions about, every phone or motherboard chipset is an absolute rats nest of backdoors and telemetry - and unless you sand the lid off every single chip and go over it with an electron microscope, there’s no good reason to assume any component only does what it claims to. But then the data from that will need to be stored on something likely-pwned anyway.
Various governments all have the ability to count your nose hairs if they wanted to - and if you’re sufficiently anomalous, you may as well assume they have.
to all of which I say meh. It’s evil and hideous of course, but so many things are evil and hideous that you just have to triage.
Easy. It’s far too expensive to implement, both in money and man-hours. Especially man-hours.
The amount of people required to personally surveil the general populace is way too exorbitant, AND they have to monitor their own people to prevent leaks. The logistics explodes well before this becomes feasible.
Then there’s discoverability. Once such hardware is out there, it’s only a matter of time before it falls into the hands of someone capable of dissecting it. Given that such spying methods would be ‘sold’ to federal management on the grounds of national security, there’s an interest in not having it fall into such hands. Therefore, these methods are reserved for high-profile targets. Not the average Joe citizen.
To summarize: Too expensive (money), too expensive (logistics), and too expensive (R&D). Unless you’re on Interpol’s most wanted list or something, you don’t need to worry about this.
Why did you suddenly become paranoid about specifically your hardware chips spying on you?
If you’re trolling that’s okay. If not: Please talk to someone. A real person who can check if you’re alright.
Mania? Bipolar?
Or took the wrong substance…
Anyways, the “spying” is probably not OP’s most pressing issue.
So here’s the brief take, you don’t know. Firmware is a very opaque thing that will never be truly visible without outright scanning the chip structures and relevant exchange mechanisms. A recent article demonstrated bypassing the Windows full disk encryption through a hardware hack using consumer available SOCs even.
What you can do is control the environment. Data can be extracted through a mess of crazy ways. ICMP and DNS calls can be used to tunnel traffic even. The goal for the end user is mitigation. There has been research where data was pulled via the sounds a spinning disk made even off an air-gapped device. Layering the controls makes it that much less likely that anything can compromise all the controls at once. There is no silver bullet solution however. High security systems are often custom fabricated and even then it’s possible a supply chain injection can compromise the product.
Your best bet as a consumer is to trust in the math (crypto) and ensure your data is encrypted at rest and in flight. Keeping keys on a separate vault, generated away from the protected system where possible is a more extreme but possible solution when you control all parts of the communications.
Throw it on pihole, you can see all traffic coming and going through your house. Also a great anti-advertise option.
In my experience, theres a lot less spying and a lot more BS/bad scripts checking in, but you do you.
One thing to note, pihole also blocks ads in you’re using wifi from your phone. If I’m playing a game or whatever that has “watch this ad for…” half the time I have to switch off wifi or else it’ll claim the ad failed and won’t give the item.
You can use wireshark to see every packet that goes through your router. Any weird unauthorized packets? Probably spying.
LIKE ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT TOP CYBERSECURITY WORKERS OR ELITE HACKERS ARE JUST HOPING THEIR HARDWARE IS NOT SPYING ON THEM AND THERE IS NO WAY FOR AN ELITE HACKER OR CYBERSECURTY WORKER TO ENSURE THEY ARE NOT BEING SPIED BY THEIR HARDWARE
Yes.
Professional ELITE HACKERS who work for governments need to leave their electronic devices outside secure facilities for precisely this reason.
Similarly, government networks that are air gapped have their hardware physically destroyed when it’s decommissioned because it’s impossible to be sure that it’s secure.
You have made me paranoid now, well more paranoid . Someone need to answer this asap.
You don’t. It’s possible that the firmware or bootloader is doing evil things. They have access to hardware in a way your OS may not detect.
The seminal paper in this area is On Trusting Trust. That link isn’t to the original, but it has a nice overview.
The best way to prevent this kind of spying is through air gaps: ie, no network. Realistically, most of us don’t want to do that.
At some point, you need to ask yourself what your threat model is. If you’re going to have severe consequences from doing something in range of the device, maybe you wanna do it elsewhere.
This is the original: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/358198.358210
Not op but this seems false and irrelavent to what theu are asking. Their problem could be solved by making the chip ipen source .
You would also have to make the die visible. Just because “source code” is open doesn’t prove the development chain hasn’t been compromised. That’s the gist of the paper referenced above. If a bad guy swaps their design for the open source design when the chips are fabbed, you’ll never know by looking at the source.
Bypass*
If you filtered your data through enough servers, or even better, split your outgoing data through multiple servers, encrypting and bouncing each of the packets multiple times, maybe have a couple filters… Your shit could still be spying on you because you are attracted to the network, and you need to talk out somehow, and unless you watched the chips be manufactured put together yourself you can’t be sure they aren’t corrupted.
That said, are you a foreign dignitary? Are you someone worth investing millions into taking down? Any minute a ninja could take you down in your day to day life, there just aren’t that many ninjas, and you aren’t worth taking down.
I can’t find the article because Google is the enshittiest now, but a couple years ago a tech journalist paid 2 different hackers to infiltrate his home system (him taking slightly more precaution than he normally would), he had no chance in keeping them out, he closed the article with a quote similar to the warning above.